War in Georgia

Originally posted by Fulcrum29

Originally posted by I3LiP
reply to post by Fulcrum29

 

Georgia is effectively engaged in a civil war.

Russia effectively invaded a country.


There is quite a difference.

Civil War? That's funny how you put that. You claim it's civil war because Georgia rightfully controls Southern Ossetia right? Yet with that mind set I can claim RUSSIA is in a civil war because Russia rightfully controls/owns Georgia since Georgia was part of the Russian owned Soviet Union and broke away just like Southern Ossetia broke away from Georgia. See the hypocrisy of your statement?

No, I classed it as a civil war because Georgia has not moved any troops outside of its internationally recognised boarders. Russia has. I don't really feel it is my place to judge who is in the right and who is in the wrong in this confrontation.

reply to post by Oceanborn


Why do you think yeah? Every country that calls itself an enemy of America is running behind Russia right now. Cuba did it. Castro told Chavez to do it. The Iranians are doing it. If America or Israel attacked Iran, the first thing that punk would do is run to Russia and then China and hide behind them for the rest of the war.

You're so foolish. You obviously thought this was a game to be played.


[SNIP]



removed insult

[edit on 8/8/08 by masqua]

Originally posted by maloy
Russia is invading Georgia? Really? Proof? All I see on the news are Russian peacekeepers moving into S.Ossetian capital by request of S.Ossetian government to prevent ethnical cleansing.

...South Ossetia is part of Georgia.

This new pipeline gets touched and we have a nu-ku-lur war on our hands.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

reply to post by maloy

Russia is invading Georgia? Really? Proof? All I see on the news are Russian peacekeepers moving into S.Ossetian capital by request of S.Ossetian government to prevent ethnical cleansing.

First of all, i hope that there is no ethnic cleansing, just a propaganda war by South Osetia AUTONOMY or Russia.
However proof for Russian armor in Georgian autonomic republic of South Osetia is available at Russian TV stations. If armor columns leave Russia ,they go somewhere else. Aka invading. Peace troops rarely include 100 tanks - UN allowed 100 tanks as peace support in the region?
I think that Georgia has the full blame for attacking and falling into Russian trap.

Originally posted by maloy
An airplane bound for Moscow left immediately before the air links between the two countries were cut at midnight. No more flights are scheduled.

i wonder if that flight had a political opposition leader on it, willing to cut a deal with russia.

maybe russia just secured the georgian state away from the westen infulence. saw thier chance and is now going to take it.

i read on another forum that russia will be going into tbillis and taking out georgian millitary. and putting the pres. up on war crimes for the shelling of that town that killed 1000+ ( of course, dont know if any of that is true )

First of all, i hope that there is no ethnic cleansing, just a propaganda war by South Osetia AUTONOMY or Russia.

I wouldn't be so categorical. Right now the evidence is anecdotal, but there is some.

However proof for Russian armor in Georgian autonomic republic of South Osetia is available at Russian TV stations.

Also, there is proof of Georgians multiple launch rocket systems used on a city, with civilians in it.

Peace troops rarely include 100 tanks - UN allowed 100 tanks as peace support in the region?

You know full well that's not a part of the UN mandate anymore, once Russian solders were killed.

reply to post by bruxfain


First of all,if Israel(and maybe the US too) attack Iran,you can't tell for sure that Russia will aid them.Things are not always that easy and simple.

What made an impression to me though is is that Ahmadinejad is "plotting".Even if he'd want to i don't think he's in the best position right now to do so.Just my humble opinion.

You're talking about "islamic plots" and all you do is making up scenarios.

reply to post by buddhasystem

You know full well that's not a part of the UN mandate anymore, once Russian solders were killed.

Actually i do now. Thank you.
However it was meant for Maloy, who claimed that there was no proof of Russian invasion. Russian troops were killed and Russia invaded Georgia, in South Osetia area. So it is an invasion. Justified, not justified - this was not the issue in my post. Georgian leadership is definitely not innocent. And artillery/missiles on civilian targets is wrong, if it is done by Georgia, Russia, Israel or Palestinians.

Originally posted by Oceanborn
reply to post by bruxfain

 

First of all,if Israel(and maybe the US too) attack Iran,you can't tell for sure that Russia will aid them.Things are not always that easy and simple.

What made an impression to me though is is that Ahmadinejad is "plotting".Even if he'd want to i don't think he's in the best position right now to do so.Just my humble opinion.

You're talking about "islamic plots" and all you do is making up scenarios.

the world is full of plots; islamic among them. since I am not sitting in the room with putin or saakashvili all I can do is make up scenarios. otherwise known as uncovering conspiracies, the basic premise of this website.

maybe i am wrong, but south ossetia is not georgia. if it were, then why does georgia have to enforce the georgian constitution? if Russia and georgia share religion, then why are they fighting, right now? there's something that's going on that is obviously obscured from sight.

Someone probably told saakashvili that if he goes into south ossetia, russia would do nothing. surely he knew there would be some response from the north. is he retarded? but russia did do something, didn't he?

reply to post by bruxfain


What? People fight for reason's other than religion...

And South Ossetia IS part of Georgia, although it is claiming autonomy.

Originally posted by JSR
i read on another forum that russia will be going into tbillis and taking out georgian millitary. and putting the pres. up on war crimes for the shelling of that town that killed 1000+ ( of course, dont know if any of that is true )

I can confirm that. The rumour of Russia marching to Tbillis has been thrown around all day on European media. BBC believes it will happen because the Georgian President is reported to be planning to declare Martial Law and Russia have accused him of rigging elections.

Originally posted by I3LiP
reply to post by bruxfain

 

What? People fight for reason's other than religion...

And South Ossetia IS part of Georgia, although it is claiming autonomy.

I though south ossetia was historically part of russia, my fault. when georgia broke away it intended to take SO with it so that makes it georgia property. Good logic, i guess you'd share the same fate as Saakashvili with that.

If Georgia wants SO for itself and wants support from the west it is on the wrong path. No NATO or western state can support georgias actions now with regard to SO. I hope you can understand the most basic concepts in IR.

by next week, you'll see the bombed out homes of SO families, made possible by the Georgian military adventure. You'll also see heroic russian soldiers who are protecting them. Perhaps then you'll understand that saakashvili just committed suicide. He, and apparently you, don't realize that yet.

[edit on 8-8-2008 by bruxfain]

Originally posted by Johnmike

Originally posted by maloy
Russia is invading Georgia? Really? Proof? All I see on the news are Russian peacekeepers moving into S.Ossetian capital by request of S.Ossetian government to prevent ethnical cleansing.

...South Ossetia is part of Georgia.

No it WAS part of Georgia, just like Georgia WAS PART OF RUSSIA, REMEMBER?

reply to post by bruxfain


...

Seriously dude. I understand what you are saying about the historical and ethnic ties SO has to Russia, but the point remains, SO is still internationally recognised as a region of Georgia, it is NOT considered a seperate state to the UN.

Regardless of any emotional whining thats flying about the issue, Russia HAS committed an act of war against Georgia whether justified or not.

South Ossetia was apart of Ossetia - which is apart of the Russian Federation. Stalin annexed it to Georgia (Stalin was a Georgian.)

Has the world stopped producing History books or something?

Originally posted by I3LiP
reply to post by bruxfain

 

...

Seriously dude. I understand what you are saying about the historical and ethnic ties SO has to Russia, but the point remains, SO is still internationally recognised as a region of Georgia, it is NOT considered a seperate state to the UN.

Regardless of any emotional whining thats flying about the issue, Russia HAS committed an act of war against Georgia whether justified or not.

Who the hell cares what the UN considers it? Is the UN GOD? Does the UN control the fate of S.O. and OWN THE PEOPLE? SO declares they are no longer part of Georgia and as such they are no longer part of Georgia PERIOD. The U.N., some arbitrarily created piece of garbage organization, has ZERO right to say anything in the matter.

Originally posted by I3LiP
Regardless of any emotional whining thats flying about the issue, Russia HAS committed an act of war against Georgia whether justified or not.

Well, Georgia's forceful attack killed Russian peacekeepers last night - that's an act of war. You cannot blame Russia for retaliating (which it is allowed too under International Law.)

Check the ATS history, you'll see dozen of threads on Georgia's swinging the sword at Russia and threatening to declare. This isn't the first time, the conflict is long overdue.