U.S. Intel: Iran Plans Nuclear Strike On U.S.

Good read (this thread),

However. It seems that an integral part of the argument against something like this (n.b. a high altitude, EMP-causing) happening has been overlooked, or at least not looked at well.

Having worked at a weapons lab for a long time (in a former life) and having studied the effects of nuclear weapons for a great deal of that time, Iran is not going to be ready to delivery anything near an optimal EMP device (get your hands on the the infamous "The Effects of Nuclear Weapons" by Glasstone and Dolan - 1977 (I believe) edition with the "wheel-of-death").

Why? There are many types of nuclear weapons - broadly classed there are gun assemblies (two hemispheres of subcritical enriched U235 are pushed together rapidly - actually, just one is fired at the other - but that's a detail). Then there are the so-called "hydrogen bombs", which are two stage devices (or, in the case of the Tzar Bomba, the largest ever exploded - by Russia, nonetheless, weighing in at around 50-60MT - this was a three stage bomb).

Then there are variants on these themes, such as thermonuclear weapons ("hydrogen bombs") that generate large amounts of neutrons (the so-called "Neutron Bomb") or excessive amounts of gamma rays (this is the one you want for best EMP results).

So, all the charts you see showing how a single bomb could knock out the entirety our the US infrastructure are true under three conditions:

1) The thermonuclear device is tweaked to produce a lot gamma rays
2) The detonation is over the middle of America
3) The detonation is at some "special" (read: classified) optimum burst height between roughly 40km - 200km above the surface.

There is a story in which American designers were trying to experimentally determine this optimum burst height for best EMP effects (why emperimentally? because the theoretical solutions were and are, to my knowledge, not solvable). Our tests in that direction were part of the series of which Argus tests (such as Argus Prime). But we never quite got (guessed is a better word) the right height.

However, the Russians claim to have detonated one at about the optimum height. It's actually more complex than that - also depending on latitude and solar activity that couples in with the problem, but still... We had no reason to disbelieve them, nor do we now. Looking at

High Altitude Tests

One can see a handy list of high-altitude tests and pretty much guess what the right height is.

Anyway, there are two points. One, is that Iran may have the optimum burst height numbers from Russia (they are friendly, after all). Or they may not. And at any rate, Iran definitely DOES NOT have thermonuclear capabilities (unless Russia gave it to them, which would be highly doubtful).

So, while this story is interesting, it is interesting mostly in as much as it illustrates the propaganda machine and not the reality. To be sure, a gun assembly device is much, much easier to build. So easy, in fact, that we didn't even test ours out before we used it on Japan. We only test the Pu239 implosion device (which again is not optimal for EMP).

Is EMP a threat? No doubt. A very real one. But not from Iran, not right now. Look up on your favorite search engine how many nuclear nations there are, then look up how many thermonuclear nations there are. Big difference. Much harder problem.

Woody

Propaganda. All US Intelligence agencies agree Iran is many years away as well as the International watchdog. The only threat in the middle east is the US and Israel. We are committing terrorist acts in their country using known terrorists an then telling Iran if you defend yourself we will nuke you. And that is OK because we are the US? Israel has nukes and is not even part of the Nuclear treaty. They can defend themselves, we do not need to be involved, not our business.

Our Country is run by a group of terrorists!
They are the biggist threat to the world peace.

These terrorist want all the oil land in Iran, they are thives, murders, liers,
Oh we havent seen the greed yet they will stop at nothing.

The Bush Administration are the terrorists!
They are nothing but a bunch of thugs.

When they die one day they will have to face all the evil THEY chose to do
and how it has effects all of us.

They chose the dark path of living, and it hurts the people who chose the light path of living.
may god help us all.

Why would Iran attack us with a nuke?

Lets just assume for a second that they have one and could actually reach the US. The immediate response will be the complete and total annihilation of Iran - they lose and will cease to exist.

They are not so stupid / delusional they don't know that.

Only hopeless / depressed / deranged people commit murder suicides - people in charge of nuclear weapons do not fit that profile.

Only a terrified fool who has been programmed by neocon radio would believe this BS.

reply to post by proximo


True. Follow the money.

See who benefits most, and the perpetrator will be revealed.

reply to post by pluckynoonez


US arms industry.

What? Thats where my thread of yarn led to, where did yours go?



[edit on 31-7-2008 by johnsky]

Whether they have those capabilities or not, they wouldn't be stupid enough to try and send a missile at the States.

The only countries crazy enough to attack the United States of America are Israel and the United States of America.

If there is an attack on U.S. soil in the next couple years (i mean a catastrophic one) those are the 2 countries id suspect first. Of course everyone will think it was Iran so fun will be had by all.

[edit on 31-7-2008 by Jesu$atan]

Lets just say for the hell of it Iran could build some kind of nuke. Get it to the USA and then be able to prep and light off the thing. In return would come 2000 plus ADVANCED nukes with pretty American flags on them to Iran. I don't think they are that dumb.

Originally posted by ThichHeaded
Remember girls and boys... We heard this same bs going into Iraq...

And Iraq had what?? Survey says: NOT A DAMN THING!

Keep that in mind when your voting in the next idiot for president.

For the most part I find this website interesting, a place to voice alternate views that the mainstream refuse to acknowledge. But then sometimes I am like "are they for real?" It must be so tiring to be constantly living in a conspiratorial smoke and mirrors reality... UGH!

You know I don't believe in starting unfounded wars although I also like living in a free country (I realize it isn't as free as it appears but there are quite a few mexicans down at the border that would be willing to swim through sewage or ride with 50 of their closest friends in a minivan to have a few days of our LIMITED FREEDOM)....

But when dealing with CRAZY PEOPLE THAT REALLY HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS and THEY HAVE REALLY BEEN TESTING THEM OUT I personally find it to be one of those double edge sword situations...

Choice#1
Even HINT at the fact that a foriegn country might want to blow us up with a weapon WE KNOW THEY HAVE which would make us MAYBE WANT TO DEFEND OURSELVES

That MUST = OH MY GOD...FEAR, CONSPIRACY, GOVERNMENT COVER-UP, ALIENS RUNNING THE GOVERNMENT.

Choice#2
Nuclear Bomb in your front yard, Yucky Radiation Sickness

That DOES = YOUR JUST DEAD.

I haven't read all 4 pages of replies or whatever but, I figured I'd give my opinion regardless.
I believe that they are just trying to jar everyone up and get them scared and afraid of the Iranians and keep them on our minds.
You notice how he said that the ONLY possible explanation is for them to be testing to get a nuke at altitutde over the USA.
Now when you explode a nuke MILES OVER the USA it's going to emit a very large EMP blast that will destroy anything that is electronic and not shielded.
Atlanta,Georgia is the communications hub of America and is also pretty close to the Atlantic Ocean.
So put 2 and 2 together and were about to get 4.

It's going to be another false flag attack by our own government just like 9/11 but, this one will be blamed on Iran one of the main reasons there trying to make sure every American thinks there the bad guys in the world at the moment before it happens.
The boat or platform they launch it from will be sunk and it will be a long time before they find it if they even do at all.
Hell have you seen the videos of the 500,000 Fema coffins IN ATLANTA.

Because once that EMP blast hits welcome back to the 1850's folks. There will not be enough food water or means to get more of either of those 2 after the initial supply runs out. No power to hospitals streetlights no phones no tv no radio no NOTHING.


Do you have any idea how many communications and signals go through Atlanta? I personally have more reason to believe it will happen while George Bush is still in office if it does at all. He will then enact Martial Law and suspend the elections indefinitely until our "Terrorism" problem can be sorted out.
Oil will go to 300$ a barrel, we will either heavily bomb and/or Nuke Iran for sure.
Who knows what China and Russia will do *shrug*

Open your eyes people.
Think about it.

reply to post by aliceinwonderland74

But when dealing with CRAZY PEOPLE THAT REALLY HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS and THEY HAVE REALLY BEEN TESTING THEM OUT I personally find it to be one of those double edge sword situations...

Is this your neighbour your talking about?

Saddam DID NOT have any Weapons of Mass Destruction:

"I think it's clear that in March, when the invasion took place, the evidence that had been brought forward was rapidly falling apart," Hans Blix,

"I think they chose to ignore us," Blix said.

"Our inspectors had been there, and they had taken a lot of samples, and there was no trace of any chemicals or biological things," Blix said.

edition.cnn.com...

U.S. investigators hunting for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq have found no evidence that such material was moved to Syria for safekeeping before the war, according to a final report of the investigation released yesterday.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Why do you think they've stopped looking for WMD's in Iraq?

Because they don't want to waste their friggin' time.
There was absolutely nothing found that could justify Bush's preposterous notion that Iraq was a Clear & Present danger to the US.

Aside from a few old rusty mustard gas shells and some mouldy Sarin, which btw are not a justifiable excuse to invade another country.

Stop spreading misconception, there's enough on these forums already.

[edit on 31/7/08 by The Godfather of Conspira]

reply to post by caballero


He's sold Iran weapons. So what?

Russia is the second largest exporter of weapons the world, that doesn't mean they are best friends with every one of their clients.

Russia may take a tough stance on Iran in the UN, but that's only because they want to create some opposition to the military action option (along with China).
Because that would mean America could be in the position to occupy another large reserve of oil, which would mean less Russian oil exports needed which means less profits for Russia (who are the second largest exporter in the world).
Money talks here...

If the sh*t ever did hit the fan and the US actually steamrolled into Iran I don't think for 2 seconds Putin would actually consider military action against US forces.
The last thing he wants is to reignite the Cold War when his country can't even afford to feed it's military.

His country simply couldn't afford it. Russia is still escaping the clutches of it's Communist past and trying to modernise, inflation is still a huge problem, poverty, lack of resources, etc...
Russia couldn't stand up to the US in the shape it's in currently.

They may look formidable on paper, but the Russian military still has a lot of catching up to do, and their not going to blow their chance for a successful comeback by getting into a possible war with the US over Iran of all nations.

Originally posted by aliceinwonderland74

But when dealing with CRAZY PEOPLE THAT REALLY HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS and THEY HAVE REALLY BEEN TESTING THEM OUT I personally find it to be one of those double edge sword situations...

George Bush is crazy in my opinion, he has nuclear weapons, the country he controls has tested and used nuclear weapons.

Originally posted by aliceinwonderland74
Choice#1
Even HINT at the fact that a foriegn country might want to blow us up with a weapon WE KNOW THEY HAVE which would make us MAYBE WANT TO DEFEND OURSELVES

Maybe those Iranians are thinking those Americans over there are getting a bit nasty, they have nuclear weapons and might want to blow us up. Maybe we should get our own so we can defend ourselves.

So yeah it's a double edged sword, only thing is the side your supporting has the much sharper end.

Originally posted by Cyberbian
What a jerk. If they do it we should send his butt to Gitmo for treason as the author of the plan.

Oh... They will "do it" alright.

I suspect Atlanta will get nailed. Maybe somewhere in TX, or any of the other places we see FEMA coffins piling up.

Of course, "they" will be those who planned and executed 9/11, and "they" will use the "Iranian" nuclear strike to both establish Martial Law (in actuality, not on paper) and blast Iran.

[sigh]

I can see their evil, devious little minds working as I type.

Originally posted by cashlink
Our Country is run by a group of terrorists!
They are the biggist threat to the world peace.

TOTALLY agree!

These terrorist want all the oil land in Iran,

Actually, they are threatened by the prospect of all Iran's oil being sold cheaply in Euros. The Dollar (US) is and has been for quite a while, on the oil standard. Cheap oil in Euros means a collapse of the Dollar (not to mention that the Saudis are buying US debt as part of their agreement to have their oil purchased by us, making them rich).

they are thives, murders, liers,

Indeed!

Oh we havent seen the greed yet they will stop at nothing.

Greed, hunger for power, evil.

The Bush Administration are the terrorists!
They are nothing but a bunch of thugs.

Oh, don't think it only extends only to the Bush admin. The cabal is filled with members of both parties, as well as other, international, members.

When they die one day they will have to face all the evil THEY chose to do
and how it has effects all of us.

Oh, that level of evil doesn't care. They lose no sleep over what they are doing to this planet. And it is likely they have the secret of immortality. And IF they die, one must assume a Biblical or other religious thing to believe they will face anything. Personally, I don't have such beliefs, believing that such religious institutions were created to control and enslave us. [shrug]

They chose the dark path of living, and it hurts the people who chose the light path of living.
may god help us all.

May god exist and choose to help us. But I think we must pull our collective tail end out of this ourselves - which seems unlikely given the number of people who still believe the Official Conspiracy Theory about 9/11.

Still, I will persist in believing that we will pull through, that awareness will hit a tipping point soon enough to avert the threat the cabal poses.

Don't believe the fear hype.


While I agree with many responses on this thread that generally say that Iran is not stupid enough to send a nuke over to the U.S. continent, there are some other factors to consider. It's not that they are scared of the consequences, it's that they can't actually do it.


- The most advanced missle Iran has is the Shahab-3 ("Shooting Star 3"). Modified (MRBM variant), it can still only travel around 2000km, and carry around a 1000kg payload. These missiles are based on the North Korean "No-Dong" design.

Shahab-3 MRBM range = 1300 miles
Distance between Miami and Iran = 7700 miles

There is no way these missles could reach American soil from Iran.





- In addition to using an already known missle platform. Secret advanced extra gamma ray nuclear payloads by the Iranians are doubtful. The Shahab-3 is originally designed to carry cluster munitions. With the infantile nuclear program of Iran, it doesn't seem like they would be able to develop anything other than a conventional nuclear warhead. Regardless, any large device detonated at 400–500 km over Kansas would affect all of CONUS. It could damage most things connected to power lines, telephone wires, and tracking wire antennas and disrupt vital communications and resources nationwide.

Although......

"In practice, however, it seems unlikely that such a state would use one of its scarce warheads to inflict damage which must be considered secondary to the primary effects of blast, shock, and thermal pulse. Furthermore, a HEMP attack must use a relatively large warhead to be effective (perhaps on the order of one mega-ton), and new proliferators are unlikely to be able to construct such a device, much less make it small enough to be lofted to high altitude by a ballistic missile or space launcher."

Source:Federation of American Scientists

- Our combined missle defense system would be able to take out almost any missile that becomes a threat or attempts to cross into the borders of American soil before it causes destruction or harm.

The primary mission of National Missile Defense is defense of the United States (all 50 states) against a threat of a limited strategic ballistic missile attack from a rogue nation. It will detect the launch of an enemy ballistic missile and track it and continue tracking the ballistic missile using ground based radars. It will engage and destroy the ballistic missile warhead above the earth’s atmosphere by force of impact.





Who's claiming that they can explode a missle over the CONUS? Apparently it's someone that is misinformed.





[edit on 31-7-2008 by Azurus]

Is it just me or does there seem to be a LOT of stars and flags thrown at the topic and posters?

Strange... Maybe Iranians are enjoying ATS more than we thought! LOL!

reply to post by Atlantican


No it's just you. And the others like you who gulp down too much propaganda.

Right, we're daring to point out that this article is garbage so we must Iranians/Towel Heads/Muslims....?

I don't think one person on this thread is any of the above.

Please get your head out of the sand.

reply to post by Azurus


Here's a better image I posted earlier just to show how ridiculous the notion was that Iran could seriously threaten America with a nuclear attack from it's own soil:

reply to post by Duality

So as much as we don't want nukes, there's no way we can all just dispose of our nukes. We would have to keep nukes since we've created them, for a bunch of reasons. 1, someone else can always create them again so there would be that threat. Then, exactly what William Cooper said, if he is correct, and there ever is an e.t. Threat they probably have worse weapons, so we would need them cause we'd have nothing better. Not to mention what Reagan said, about an outside threat. To be honest with you, the governments have been toying with us for centuries and our founding fathers got away from it for like a decade before the tyranical hierarchies tricked their way into power again just to toy with us till the present day. Which is why america is failing. We aren't what was founded, and its all because of greed.