NEEDED: everyones theories, beliefs, facts on the bible...post here

maybe im wrong, but isnt there something like "thy body is thy temple"? so why do we need to worship a chunk of stone carved into the shape of some imaginary
person?

Funny, the Bible says not to worship statues or images or anything like that... keep up the goodness! ^^

"do onto others" is about the only part of the bible i accept, other than that theres been too many contradictions, wars, hate etc over religion for most
of what it preaches though.

Humanity can be a bit idiotic sometimes, eh? Funny that we as a species have such high opinions of ourselves.
(Psst: contradictions? Is there a list of these somewhere? Please share! )

we would all want to become better as a person, and as a whole civilisation we would evolve + strive to be better.

Guys, I think the nontheist just won the Nobel Peace Prize for "Things humanity should have figured out a long time ago". Dude, you rock!

Every biblical reference to the place of Eternal Punishment, Hell, and thereafter the Lake of fire... well, every verse I read on that, describes a place
burning with fire and in many cases, with never-dying worms eating through the flesh which shall also never die. So the body burns, but never burns up;
the flesh is eaten, but never devoured. And the thirst is also never ending, for there is no water.

Problem! Do these verses ever once fit in the context of what happens to the dead for eternity? And do they reference a physical place? Turns out... that place is a national park today.

Get out of the Dominican teachings. God's Word is easy enough to understand as it is; the Holy Ghost clarifies what one cannot understand, if you ask Him.

I don't know whether to laugh, or press on. True, and yet, dangerous.

"They said God was on high and he controlled the world and therefore we must pray against Satan. Well, if God controls the world, he controls Satan. For
me, religion was full of misstatements and reaches of logic that I just couldn't agree with."

Zing! God is all powerful! So what's all this God failing to complete his wishes stuff? Tell me why Atheists are making more sense than a lot of religious people?

Science says it has all the answers.

Science also says there was a big bang for no apparent reason. That sounds kinda mystical to me!

I know the difference between answered prayers and coincidence; a rain storm stopping abruptly, might be coincidence. To have it stopped for the same amount
of time I need to finish my job and get home, then have the rain continue?

While I was out walking this morning, it was kinda cold and I wasn't sure if I should go the hole circle I normally make. But I decided to go ahead... pretty immediately after I hit my knee on the rail of the steps I was ascending rather painfully. No injury from the looks of it, but since that happened I spent the rest of that time thinking about coincidence Vs direct intervention... and I essentially concluded they're the same, because both lead to you becoming who you are at the end. That whole inner discussion was significant--caused by a seemingly coincidental almost response to me deciding to stay in the cold a little longer than I might have liked... coincidence? Sure! Doesn't mean it wasn't miraculous... and unasked for, at that!

1. Gaia. Yes, Gaia. Mother Earth. As is worshiped in Earth-religions. And Wicca.

Gaia in Planeteers is the General of sorts, not a deity. I certainly don't worship the gods of the earth, and I still find Captain Planet to be freaking awesome.

2.1 : "Your power" -this seems to indicate the power of Magick. In this case, Elemental Magic.

Way to completely miss the point. Have you read captainplanet.org? "By your powers combined..." the result of teamwork is greater than the sum of its parts. Magic?
(And for that matter, elemental powers don't even have to be magic. Your body generates heat... so if I melt an icecube with my hands, is it magic? If I do something to increase the heat in my body at a certain point, and thus control heat... is it magic?)

2.2 : The Captain comes only into being when the powers are combined; this is the same as a summoning spell to summon your protector.

The Captain represents teamwork, not a mystical protector. Wait, I haven't even heard of this "combining spells to summon your protector" rubbish... and I have a good friend who is a wickan.

But of course, the New Age is back underground, with Wicca and Eastern Religions doing the work to pave the way towards a New World Order.

And that's why Buddhists were recently beaten and massacred for protesting a bad regime?

I read your posting and the replies by some person who goes under the pseudonym of "THEGodSend". Will you please forgive the member for the verbal abuse,
and accept my apology for it on behalf of the True Children of God/True Christians?

Done!

But you have many questions. And reasoning is not enough to answer many of them.

I agree and disagree sorta kinda at the same time. People change... what you can reason out today may not be what you can reason out tomorrow. Enultimately, though, finding all the answers isn't something we can do with reason... but we can get somewhere, I think.

4. The Jews still fall under the Law, for they have rejected Jesus' Love Offering. Only those who go to the Father in the Blood of Jesus, may enter Heaven.
Therefore they go to Hell, as any other, if they die without Jesus.

Well, that sucks. I guess I'll keep reading the Bible then.

Mankind is hard to please. If ever.

Heh heh, definitely true!

Why not aspire to get your own, new, belongings?

What good are belongings, anyway?

God's commands are for mankind's safety.

Urm... yes. But there are other ways: there's a specific reason God has done things the way he has, despite the fact that we fancy ourselves capable of thinking of better ways. I mean... I try to think of ways society could be improved. So why didn't God do it my way? Or a more perfect version of my way? Is it just because "He's God, and he's smarter than me"? I think there's more to it than that (though that is still true).

Evolutionists claim that the "myths" of a 6000 year old earth and Adam being made of clay and breathed into, are wrong. I honestly wish to see their proof for what they
claim is wrong.

Genesis sounds like a fairytale at first glance. Very easy to disregard if you don't actually look at it and ask if what is stated can be true. At which point, it becomes apparent that it's actually a bit lacking on specific things that we can throw out as nonsense... some of it (most of it!) actually fits models of the Earth's creation and life pretty well!

i hope this has enlighterned you ther is so much more that i know but i am tired i am an australian of brittish decent in my mid 30s and im roman cathlic
blood merry christmas to you all and have a happy new year

Spellcheck makes revelations easier to understand.

The Bible in it's NKJV or KJV form contains the Word of God.

They don't even say the same thing... Think about what you're saying. Seriously.

You need God-given spiritual understanding to comprehend its full meaning.

Where's that come from, again? Do you think you have it? Why?
(Now, let me go into critical mode for a second: "Urm... I can't explain it, you need the grace of God to get it. Otherwise it doesn't make sense.". You're not a good debater, and it sounds like you don't want to be. So... urm... don't argue if you're not going to do it with some effort. Sorry.)

How can we explain the apparent (and real) contradictions between the contents (meaning) of the Bible and the 'System of Christianity' (Religion) which
appeared after Christ's ascent to Heaven?

Umm, humans are flawed?

Ungodly men (not led by the Holy Spirit) and/or men with ulterior motives did what the Word of God warns against: Added to it or changed the meaning to
suit their purposes - like: the Roman Catholic Church (the first among many other 'misinterpretations' and false elaborations).

True, true, true. Are you sure you haven't been fed similar perversions of 'The Word'? Just asking...
(Incidentally, I heard a view that looking at John1, we'd conclude that Jesus, not the Bible, is the word of God according to the Scriptures... Hmm. But now I'm just saying what I've heard, soo....)

Salvation is a transaction between God and an individual (that's Scriptural) and is independent of the 'System of Christianity'.

Why didn't you cite a scripture, then? In many ways what you say is true, but still... something about it is... hmm... off. I know you can do better if you try. . And if it is God's will that you help us with that "transaction"... I'm sure you'll succeed!

Sin (including inherited or 'original' sin) is a universal defect with which every person is born. Sin disqualifies a person from existing in the presence
of God, either in this life or in the next life.

"Neither in this age, nor the age to come.". Notice it doesn't say anything about the age after the age to come. Nevertheless, original sin is indeed a cheap way to force people into a system. "Adam sinned, therefore, you sinned before your parents were even born.". Well shucks, that's not fair! But if we are to believe the Bible, "Not one is seeking out God" "There is not one who has not sinned ...". Does that require original sin? I think not...

Satan (aka Devil, Mammon, Lucifer, "Great Deceiver") is 'the god of this world' (Earth) and is accompanied by demons (fallen angels).

Satan isn't Lucifer, if you pay attention to the "Oh Lucifer..." chapter. Nevertheless, your other descriptions of Satan look correct. But I will say this: "Satan was a murderer from the beginning". Satan may or may not have fallen angels on his side, but Satan is not one himself. Which makes him all the more dangerous, since he clearly wasn't born with angellic goodness to give him remorse...

Satan is a 'fallen angel' ('Angel of Light') and the enemy of God and he HATES Jesus the Christ.

Oh, poo. No wait, I just said that was false. And you know what? It doesn't matter if it is or isn't: what's that have to do with us, anyway? If anything it makes it easier to sympathize with Satan.
(Oh how art thou fallen, oh Lucifer. . . never mind that I was talking about the king of Babylon for the rest of this chapter. . .)

Jesus the Christ is the ONLY Redeemer.
"No one comes to the Father except through Me"

This is indeed scriptural. Continue. ^^

When a person accepts Jesus the Christ as personal savior, ALL sin is forgiven and he/she is 'born again from above' (the indwelling of the Holy Spirit).
That person becomes a 'new creature', belonging to God. Their name is written in the 'Book of Life'.

Not scripture. Unless you have quotes. Which I don't see here.

Jesus the Christ IS God AND the Son of God.
"I and the Father are One"

I suppose so. ^^

The triune nature of the Godhead - Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Isn't in the Bible.

Salvation by faith, not works - it is a gift of God.

True. However, the grace of God should lead to good works--not that works save us, but grace should make works good. Is that scriptural? Umm... James?

The existence of Heaven (for the saved) and of Hell (for the unsaved).

Scripture?

Eternal Life with God is what Christ bought for the saved with His shed blood.

True, but not the wording of the scriptures. "Life to the ages", then "this mortal must put on immortality". Big difference... and both are mentioned.

The Resurrection of Christ from the dead signified God's Final victory over Sin and Death for all those who believe that He is the Son of God.

One fault with your statement: does the sBible ever state the "for all those who believe"? Exclusively? Ever?

Repentance (changing the direction of your sinful life) is necessary for Salvation.

Scriptural. And even without the scriptures, that's hard to argue with.

God's plan for the saved is the attainment of the perfection of Christ. They are called 'Sons of Light' or 'Children of God'.

True, but you're adding churchisms that aren't in scripture... and... really they don't seem to affect the message, so... why?

Once saved, a person (the soul) is forever out of the reach of Satan. He/she CANNOT be separated from God or God's Love.

Body + breath of life = Soul (Genesis 1 and 2). Your statement is true, but I don't think it is in the way you expect.

The saved will be resurrected from the dead with an immortal body - just like Christ was resurrected with an immortal body.

Scriptural.

God is Spirit, Love, Light and Holy.

Scriptural.

Christ instructed His followers to be baptized in water, as He was baptized.

Now I'm going to ask questions instead of being the arguer I've been until now. Does Jesus actually say that all of his followers should be baptized in water? I've read where he told the disciples to go and baptize... I don't remember him commanding that all of his followers for all time be baptized, but maybe I missed something? That, and Paul stopped baptizing, if I recall correctly.

Christ's true Followers will be persecuted, just like He was persecuted.
"A servant is not greater than his master; if they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you"

Scriptural. And in accord with how reality can be expected to work. Now, how many of us are being persecuted? I don't feel very persecuted! Therefore, I know full well that I am not worthy.

Christ will return to the Earth. (the Second Coming).

Scriptural? Yes. 'course, you have to believe the Bible before you can be expected to believe that. Here's hoping!

What happens when a Follower of Christ dies?: Absent from the body - Present with the Lord!

That's not what the verse you're thinking of says. Read it again. Paste it, even. In fact, the entire freaking Bible contradicts that statement. And hey, what's the point of the resurrection if we go to heaven upon dying?

Many people think our government or others have power, but all the power in heaven and in earth, outer and inner space, are within each of us, and we could
stop them.

AMEN!

Jesus did not give us weapons of war and tell us to kill our oppressors, he told us to Love them, pray for them, forgive them, these have more power in
them when properly understood and used. The bible is a book, but when the words are understood in their true meanings, it is a guide book to our own power.

AMEN!

The church was created to silence this message because if each of us is this powerful, who would rule over us?

Assumption. Possible. Concludable. Determinable? Not really. Believable? That's all I'll say.

this is the reason why the 10 commandments were taken out of the school systems. in the early 1960's

Ever heard of the Red Scare? Ever heard of people wanting to get away from that "shoving it down your throat to prove you aren't communist" oppression? For better or worse, I think you did a good job of ignoring the history in that after posting all that awesome stuff on Jewish history.

"if the posted copies of the 10 commandments were to have any effect at all, it would be to introduce school children to read them. And if they read them,
meditated upon them, and perhaps venerated and observed them, this is not a permissible objective."

Who said that? :O

Search the Scriptures yourself and you'll be able to find the relevant passages which confirm my statements. Can you count to 3? God the Father + God the
Son + God the Holy Spirit (aka the Comforter) = 3 (Voila!) "Who shall go for us? Here am I. Send me"

Paul sure shortchanged the holy spirit, then.
(Wow, sorry if it looks like I'm attacking you. Your comments just warrant more straight forward responses than a lot... )

'Rise first' doesn't specify where they're coming from, does it? Maybe it means that their bodies will be reconstituted (their souls left their bodies at
the point of death) and reunited with their immortal bodies. Souls do not get buried with the bodies! Where, do you suppose, the soul (or spirit) goes
- Disneyland? Have you read any Near-Death testimonies (by Christians or people who became Christians after their experience)? Anyway, it's not a central
issue for the believer.

Where'd they go? Nowhere: they were dead! "David is in his sebulker to this day". Near-death testimonies... my grandmother died in the hospital once and came back. And she definitely died a christian. No magic images of heaven or hell there. Wouldn't it be really unfair for someone who accepted Jesus as her savior to not get to see heaven in her period of not-alive-ness while so many others do? And I assure you, she was christian to her grave.

Your questioning of the existence of Heaven and Hell (the concepts, not the words) is ludicrous and not worthy of a reply! Your preoccupation with what
exact words are used (Hell or Hades or Gehenna, etc.) is proof that you have inadequate spiritual understanding and therefore have not been 'born again

... I can't think of a non-insulting thing to say. That was about the lowest response you've ever given. Where do these concepts come from? Do you just randomly know there's a heaven and hell and assume everyone that doesn't is unworthy? Did God tell you this in your sleep? Go ahead and not grace it with a response: in the end, God wins anyway.

Light, Love, Spirit and Holiness are attributes of God. (your curt comment about the Holy Spirit is blasphemy - which is an unforgivable sin!)

Those are indeed atributes of God. Mind telling me how you blaspheme against the holy spirit? And... what the holy spirit is?

This response is for the benefit of 'lurkers' - not you. You are a sly little devil!

Satan is eating you as you type. I hope it doesn't hurt.
(Hey, man, why don't we... urm... talk about this instead of spouting doctrine? Maybe I'm guilty too. Egh. I should remove the plank from my eye before yelling at people like you. )

If you really want to know, I am atheist simply because of the Christians who are hypocritical. If I do something wrong, I have to answer to myself. It
is on my conscience, not "Gods". I don't have to make excuses for myself to feel better.

Do you disbelieve in a all powerful source of existance, or in a supernatural warlord that governs the universe? ^^.
The issue here is that while the people are just plain... well, in the words of Jesus, "hypocrites. . . generation of snakes. . . devour widows houses. . . shall receive the greater damnation. . . ", the teachings of Jesus are pretty ... well... nice? Egh, decide for yourself, I suppose. but it looks like you're already winning compared to most religious fanatics--someone tell me why Atheists turn out better in many regards than theists? Oh, right--from the sounds of it, you want to be good because it's right, not because of fear of Hell or to receive some reward that you don't even know for sure exists. I think that may well be the commandment "Love the lord your God. . . love thy neighbor . . . love thyself".

I am only human and could be wrong.

Me too!

Thinking you're right and being right are not the same thing. Then there is KNOWING you're right. My KNOWING I'm right does not interfere with your thinking
whatever you like to think!

How do you know you are right?

And then the word Christ in Greek means like a little god that you pray to paganly. The greeks have little...

Uh, no it doesn't. Where'd you hear this?

When you go over to www.ndef.org you can read a plethora of NDE (Near Death Experiences) - I am Christian and I do not understand it all, and I myself have
had NDE's, and it was a amazing experience. Irregardless the usual debunkers are going to spout that life after death does not exist and all the other
assinine arguments, and simply not realize that reams of people (including all the testimonials down at ndef.org) are simply witnesses to the experience.

Grandmother. Christian. Death, recessitation, no NDE. Maybe you had a spriitual experience. That doesn't mean NDEs are authoritative.

In a nutshell I'm putting my faith in the Lord, because that is who I saw in my NDE, and I am making no qualms about it.

Well, I hope then your NDE involved the real lord. If so, then I'd say you were blessed!

if you have read the bible, actualy sat down and read it, you will find more contradictions in a single book then there are in the Coby rape trial.

Show me two, and I'll find the rest on my time. Deal?

hell is in the bible and just as real like or not.

Where?
Let's do this. I trust God. Therefore, if God sends me to an eternal torment in Hell, then God made the right decision--too bad for me. Hmm?

16 You did not choose me, I chose you; and

... Need I elaborate?

22 “If I had not come and spoken to them, they wouldn’t be guilty of sin; but now, they have no excuse for their sin.

.. Let's meditate on this verse for a while.

Here are some links to what the word translated "hell" in the Bible actually means.

Anyone who takes the time to read all of those and comes back to argue against them had better have some pretty awesome arguments. I'm more interested in learning than fighting, so please, please do.

TO THEGodSend YOU ARE A FRUITCAKE
GOD IS JUST A IMAGINARY FRIEND FOR ADULTS
I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT THERES IS SOMEONE AS BRAINWASHED AS YOU

Mind saying that without the bad typing? Godsend, for all that I disagree with that he's said, clearly has reasons for believing as presented. (Ok, so maybe there's brainwashing. Still...)
God is not a man. God is not a super being of death. God is not a thing. God is the alpha and omega, beginning and end, creator, causeless, source of all that is. What the nature of this God is, only God knows. (XD). If we believe the Bible, then we're going to have to believe this God has a personality and gets involved in the affairs of the universe. Kinda daunting a position to take, but sometimes it's encouraging.

As a Christian myself (having been raised one since birth), I find it still interesting that a vast majority of Christians today still don't understand their own faith, the history or origins of Christianity, or even challenge some of the age-old truths of the Bible (God's inspired word by the way) as being "false or contrived" in some way.

If you really are a Christian, you can get your answers more readily by working with Christians in your home church, rather than trying to gather thoughts about it from an online forum, which largely is made up of folks you don't know, can't easily meet, or who have a worldview that cannot be expressed easily.

1) Pray - ask God to reveal his truth to your heart. Be certain not to pray to some "big god out there in space"...rather to your Father in Heaven (the head of the Trinity), the Holy Spirit, or Christ (Jesus).

2) Read your Bible - its God's infallible word - not some made up junk collected over time. As His word, its "living" in the sense that it is not just the words of men, but active and connected to God Himself - it can change hearts and minds.

3) Avoid reading "counter Christian" books, Bibles, or theories that contend that we are all space brothers in some odd cosmic journey through the Universe, having been planted here by space aliens or having been evolved from a tiny microb, ape, or some fish.

4) Speak to your clergy, minister, or pastor about your 'doubts' about the truth about the Bible.

5) Join a Church that preaches the Word of God as intended, not revisionist thinking or false Gospel.

Christ tells us that when we accept Him we are "born again" in spirit - we start a new spirtual life as 'children' and we pass through the same maturation but in a different light.

reply to post by BCB7B


I agree with you, but still the majority of people want some kind of "physical" proof. But that is where faith comes into play, and the individuals character is truly revealed. People want to see miraculous events happen in front of them, and are expecting to see something unexplainable. But they don't pay attention to the documented lives of real saints and miracle workers. They argue that nothing miraculous ever happened( In front of their own two eyes) , its all just stories being told to "control the masses".It's almost like this, We know we need oxygen to survive but since we can't see it, touch it, and smell it therefore it doesn't exist.

reply to post by cajones


Dude, thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!

I can see we are on the same page. I discovered bible-truths.com (don't know if you've been there but it sounds like you have) about 9 months ago while looking for info on whether or not tithing was scriptural. Mr. Smith has done his homework! I've had to unlearn everything (almost) I was taught by mainstream churches but, what i've gained in return I can't describe. You know that weight lifted off your shoulders feeling, I got it big time after spending much time there reading and studying.

I'm glad you posted. You were able to put into words what I couldn't. How do you think I felt when I first read that there isn't a literal hell. My first reaction is that this guy is hosed up because that is a major tenet of Christianity. As I read Mr. Smith's papers, the best I could describe it is that I had this feeling that it all made sense. Maybe that's the feeling you get as truth is revealed to you by God.

Well done, thy good and faithful servant.

Originally posted by BCB7B
As a Christian myself (having been raised one since birth), I find it still interesting that a vast majority of Christians today still don't understand their own faith, the history or origins of Christianity, or even challenge some of the age-old truths of the Bible (God's inspired word by the way) as being "false or contrived" in some way.

If you really are a Christian, you can get your answers more readily by working with Christians in your home church, rather than trying to gather thoughts about it from an online forum, which largely is made up of folks you don't know, can't easily meet, or who have a worldview that cannot be expressed easily.

So, are you saying that the ONLY place to get answers is from your local church? And if you get something from the net, you're not really a Christian? Can you show me in the Bible where it says this?

1) Pray - ask God to reveal his truth to your heart. Be certain not to pray to some "big god out there in space"...rather to your Father in Heaven (the head of the Trinity), the Holy Spirit, or Christ (Jesus).

I do pray to God, especially for truth! However, the trinity does not exist. Show me scripture that clearly defines the concept of a triune Godhead. This is one thing that confuses most Christians. Here is a link to a great paper explaining that there is no trinity.

Concept of trinity explained

2) Read your Bible - its God's infallible word - not some made up junk collected over time. As His word, its "living" in the sense that it is not just the words of men, but active and connected to God Himself - it can change hearts and minds.

I believe this as well.

4) Speak to your clergy, minister, or pastor about your 'doubts' about the truth about the Bible.

Why, so they can 'straighten me out' and tell me what I should really believe?

5) Join a Church that preaches the Word of God as intended, not revisionist thinking or false Gospel.

I thought God wanted the TRUTH to be preached. What most mainline churches are doing is preaching a false doctrine that teaches us that if we don't know Christ or sin and not repent that we will go to a literal hell and burn in eternity forever and ever (the concept of eternity is not in the Bible). While we're at it, make sure you give 10% of your income (gross because you want God to bless your gross and not your net income, right?) to the local church otherwise you will be cursed with a curse.

(Salted) Cojones:

After sampling some of your wares that you dumped all over this thread and giving them some thought (not a lot, I must admit), a fitting response came to mind. In the extremely short but powerful sentence of General Anthony McAuliffe: NUTS! (take it as an adjective that fits).

Hey, when you get to Hell, you'll be roasted Cojones (NUTS)

in reply to...

thinkink posted on 6-11-2007 @ 03:50 AM

"You people are funny!

Why not "study" and educate yourself on history, and God before posting opinions and "I think"?

I was a Christian once but have seen the light and been set free! "
_____________________________________________________________

- One of the fundamental things within this whole debate that I have found being a Christian that not to many are really talking about. Its having the Presence of GOD here with me on the inside in the form of the Holy Spirit bearing witness to GODS word. His presence, His guidance, as you learn and grow His spirit will teach you all things. When you know that presence you have that inward witness and you know more than you did before. Its not about head knowledge it never was. That alone is the most powerful backup of GODS word period. Remember...

Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 1:27
But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

1 Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness"


Having a personal relationship with the LORD is much more meaningful than anything this world has to offer, its so much more than just reading the world to show yourself approved... its so much deeper than that... your creator wants to share this life with you, walk with you, talk with you, and help you through this life to be more than you are. GODS SO COOL.

go get drunk in the Lord with the new wine... it'll spoil you to anything this world can offer and you wont wake up with a headache the next morning...

by the way, knowing the word is powerful and extremely necessary for the LORD says my people die for the lack of knowledge... I didn't want you to think His word did not hold absolute truth because He's LORD and SAVIOR...

but being a Christian is SO MUCH MORE...

reply to post by defcon5

Defcon..."What the hell are you talking about?

You insult my suggestion to get educate, to do so you quote my statement concerning Christianity be founded by a false prophet and then spew some crap about the source of the 4 gospels?

What the hell does the source of the 4 gosples have to do with anything I said?

BTW - Polycarp was a religious idiot! Only Catholics find him a credible "father" of Christianity, Oh, excuse me, some "learned" Christians outside of Catholocism as well.

Jesus said to Judge a tree by it's fruit, No good fruit can come from a bad tree!

All Christianity stems from Catholocism, no escaping that fact, I don't care what sect a christian belongs to, they are all branches of the Catholic tree. Christianity is a divided house, and you know what Jesus says about a divided house don't you!

Catholocism is the filthy tree and the different Christian sects are the branches and every Christian is a leaf on that filthy tree.... Pauls teachings (corruptions of Jesus purpose and teachings) is the sap (life blood) of that filthy tree.

When Constantine made Christianity the "world religion" in his time, that was the clearest and most relevent proof that Christianity is of and for the world, and Jesus rejected "everything" of this world!

Wake up and open your eyes so YOU can see, open YOUR ears so you can truly HEAR what you are being exposed to here!

Originally posted by thinkink
You insult my suggestion to get educate, to do so you quote my statement concerning Christianity be founded by a false prophet

Well I was not picking on your remark to get educated, I do agree with that; however, saying that Paul founded Christianity is not the case by a long shot.
There were many Christian churches already in existence by the time Paul was running around doing his ministry.

Originally posted by thinkink
What the hell does the source of the 4 gosples have to do with anything I said?

Polycarp was not the source of the gospels, he endorsed them. Christianity is based on those books, not on the teachings of Paul. Though the letters of Paul do take up a large section in the New Testament, they are not the only thing found in there. Irenaeus, student of Polycarp, lists a series of books, which he considered to be correct teachings in his 4 volume “Against Heresy”. Considering that these men where taught from the Apostle John, I think they would have been screaming at the top of their lungs if they felt that Paul was altering the message of Christianity.

Originally posted by thinkink
BTW - Polycarp was a religious idiot! Only Catholics find him a credible "father" of Christianity, Oh, excuse me, some "learned" Christians outside of Catholocism as well.

No, actually both the Orthodox and Catholics consider both Polycarp and his student, Irenaeus, to be saints. That encompasses all of Christianity at the time, with the exceptions of the Gnostics who both Polycarp and Irenaeus were chewing apart. All other Christian religions are offshoots of either Roman Catholic or Orthodox, which were of course one and the same before the Great Schism. The next set of major Christian Religions to exist were not until the Protestant Reformation of the 1500’s.

I suggest you recheck your history on them being idiots, unless you’re getting that info from a Gnostic.

Polycarp is recognized as a saint in both the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches.

Irenaeus (Greek: Ειρηναίος), (b. 2nd century; d. end of 2nd/beginning of 3rd century) was bishop of Lugdunum in Gaul, which is now Lyon, France. His writings were formative in the early development of Christian theology, and he is recognized as a saint by both the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church; both consider him a Father of the Church.

Originally posted by thinkink
Catholocism is the filthy tree and the different Christian sects are the branches and every Christian is a leaf on that filthy tree.... Pauls teachings (corruptions of Jesus purpose and teachings) is the sap (life blood) of that filthy tree.

I would agree with this in so far as you mean the Roman Catholic Church, which I consider to be the fourth beast of Daniel and the first beast in Revelations. The Catholic Church means the original Christian church as a whole.

Originally posted by thinkink
When Constantine made Christianity the "world religion" in his time, that was the clearest and most relevent proof that Christianity is of and for the world, and Jesus rejected "everything" of this world!

I will agree that Constantine was the beginning of many troubles in the Church, as he merged much that was of the church with that which was of the Roman Empire, culminating in the Roman Catholic Church following the Great Schism. I believe that this merging of these two together, the Roman Empire into the Roman Catholic Church, is what is mentioned in Revelations with the Whore of Babylon. The Roman Station known as the “Pontifex Maximus”, the head of all Pagan Roman Churches, became what we now know as the Pope, this station fits with the “Little Horn” of the book of Daniel which comes out of the Fourth Beast (Rome).


[edit on 11/7/2007 by defcon5]

how are we non-christians meant to believe religion, when the religious people cant even agree with each other.
every christian has their own version of the bible

why cant nobody today, part oceans or feed thousands of people with a few crumbs of food (that would really help in todays world) or even turn water into wine
religion, pfft it causes more wars today than does good.

who said "do not believe in everything you read".

peace to all

reply to post by THEGodSend



Well, thank you. . Actually that's my initials and then my last name--it took encountering people referencing Grand Theft Auto for me to realize it has a *ahem* unfortunate meaning.
That said, sure, I'd by that I'm "nuts". I'd like a single quote from scripture to validate that general brushing aside of my points and questions, though.
And I greatly admire your concern for me in your pit of fire... . Unfortunately you have yet to show a single bit of evidence that the Bible supports the existance of such a fate, and you make yourself look like a holier-than-thou nutcase (Not saying I don't! ). But I still want to hear what you have to say--I'm certainly not going to get it on my own, and I think God is leading me somewhere that I can't quite see yet.
One thing that annoys me, and I actually can't remember Godsend doing this here... is when people just say, "Hell is in the Bible.", and leve it at that. So far, the best reference I've found is in Matthew "And these departed into everlasting (Aioneon?) fire prepared for the devil and his angels. . . into everlasting punishment. . .". Even disregarding Aioneon Vs Eternal, though, "a really really long period of punishment" is wide open for interpretation.

Well done, thy good and faithful servant.

Was that directed at me? If so, thanks, but know you that "none is good save the father"? .


I'm not helping keep this topic... urm... on topic, am I?

Originally posted by chickenfeet
how are we non-christians meant to believe religion, when the religious people cant even agree with each other.
every christian has their own version of the bible

Sigh, ain't that the truth?

why cant nobody today, part oceans or feed thousands of people with a few crumbs of food (that would really help in todays world) or even turn water into wine

Nobody's trying and getting attention for their efforts? Let's think, though--what did Jesus feeding the five thousand with a couple loaves of bread accomplish? It kept them fed while they stayed late to hear... whatever they were talking about, there. He didn't wind up doing this everywhere he went... why? Let me ask this: how many people die happy?

who said "do not believe in everything you read".

peace to all

A wise person. .

Per the original question...

Some questions for the believers:

Womans oppression?
Murder, Killing for faith?
Homosexuality?


Woman oppression...

Not so much, Woman were created different and for different roles, and biblical who's to say there roles are any more or less important then the roles of men. There are many things women can do better then men. Raising kids is one of them. That's a very important role. There also mention in the bible how a man should head of the family, however it also says if your a smart man you'll listen to your wife. I forget were I read it, but in a nutshell women were the ones with more common sense. We as people have labeled women's roles as being less then that of a man, and have labeled what we consider as oppression. If we go back to bible then we see that both men and women have important roles to play out in everyday life.


Murder, Killing for faith?

Not sure what this question is asking, but the bible seems clear that under condition its ok to kill, like self defense. Murder is different, it implies kill only for personal gain, that's not ok.

Homosexuality?

The bible is against it. God made man to mate with women and have kids. Man to Man or Women to Women goes against the purpose for which we were created, and the bible calls it wicked. Sorry to the homosexuals, but that's what is says, but don't worry the bible also say that real christians are still suppose to treat you with respect. So, gay hating is not ok, instead is should work more like... Be torlent, invite a gay person to words of God and see what changes God's words imspire on there lives. Whatever happen or doesn't happen is between them and God. Hate sin not the person, for we all are sinners.