Geneticist Says: Genetically, blacks aren't as intelligent. (Update: Now Denies It)

This doesn't surprise me at all, neither does the responses in this thread. I can't fail to understand why people think it's impossible that race may play a role a humans genetic predispositions.

I think it is far more likely that black people just learn in different ways than white people, which would explain the low IQ tests, SAT scores, drop out rates, etc... but as long as people want to keep denying that this possiblity may exist, nothing will ever get better.

Have things ever gotten better without discussing them? The Nazi-esc response to anything that challenges PC norm is far more threatening then any outside force to Western society.

This is just ridiculous. I can't believe people are still kicking this old ball around. The only differences between humans are skin color and bone structure.

This should end it, Your social up bringing has a major impact on who you are and what you become. More money now, means you can get a better education, get treated for any known learning disabilities and such. While those who are born into poverty and generally don't have as much money are below the scale, don't get learning disabilities treated and as well, can't get tutors that are needed.

Originally posted by 123143
This is just ridiculous. I can't believe people are still kicking this old ball around. The only differences between humans are skin color and bone structure.

Differences go alot further than just skin and bone. Blood types, certain diseases. The list is quite a bit longer than bone or skin. Just those two things hint at other differences anyway. Does it matter that we may be different, anyway? It's not racist to suggest we are. Each different race has it's own strengths and weaknesses. Is it racist to discuss it?

Honestly, some people fly off the handle at the mere mention of anyone being different. Is difference bad, or do we all have to be the same?

Originally posted by Harry_Truman_1945
I can't fail to understand why people think it's impossible that race may play a role a humans genetic predispositions.

Don't forget height.

Shorter people 'have a chip on their shoulder which makes them unhealthy'

Those not blessed with height are often accused of having a chip on their shoulder.

Short men and women apparently complain of poorer mental and physical health than those of an average height. Researchers examined more than 14,000 responses to the 2003 Health Survey for England.

The subjects had given details of their height, weight, age, gender, long-standing illness and social class.

This Is London

Could Dr. Watson's height factor into his views?

Sometimes these studies are sort of laughably useless.

Look it's not JUST this theory he has put forth but rather a series of ideas which indicate bias toward certain individuals of differing races, genders, and sexualities. Put that into context with his latest bombshell and yeah I see him as somewhat of a bigot as do quite a few others in the scientific community.

It's not just confined to this forum.

Then again what do I know? I live in a Northern climate so according to Dr. Watson I'm drunk and unhappy right now.

I blame the Sun for all of this.

You may enjoy this book:

www.amazon.com...=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-0011435-3952002?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192729250&sr =8-1

Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life

The book took on controversy in 1996 for the same subject.

Worthy read.

The truth of the matter is if you breed dogs for 4 generations in two groups.... one group you teach a dozen tricks to and feed them tender meat. The other group you keep chained up in the back yard and sometimes they go without water. Then take a 5th generation pup from each group and see how many trick you can teach him. Dare you hopothesize?

Intergenerational intellegence shifts downward in poor environment.

damaged code

It is what it is. Like chernobyl. Like people that live under high tension lines. Born to an alcoholic momma? Exposed to lead?

Damaged.

Each one of us has an ability to improve upon our baseline damage... but some groups are statisticaly and genetically damaged moreso due to the their ill lived demographic lineage. A geneticist points towards a potential flaw in the lineage of a repressed people, and that is considered rude? Perhaps before considering it rude, one should check their own conscience and consider the burdens their lineage does not have to bear.

Environment is everything. Each of us has purpose.

Sri Oracle

I'm not touching this with a 40 foot pole

Originally posted by stumason
Differences go alot further than just skin and bone. Blood types, certain diseases. The list is quite a bit longer than bone or skin. Just those two things hint at other differences anyway. Does it matter that we may be different, anyway? It's not racist to suggest we are. Each different race has it's own strengths and weaknesses. Is it racist to discuss it?

Honestly, some people fly off the handle at the mere mention of anyone being different. Is difference bad, or do we all have to be the same?

I agree with the statements in your post. I was emphasizing that the race debate is getting really boring and extremely annoying. Who cares if someone is black or white or purple?

Treat everyone the same and let's move on to more important matters. The planet we live on is screwed. If that's not an issue to put us all on the same wavelength, I don't know what is.

Get over the stereotypical BS. Be decent to the person next to you no matter what color they are or where they come from.

We've become a terribly negative animal. It's getting to be a real drag.

Originally posted by 123143
Who cares if someone is black or white or purple?

Treat everyone the same and let's move on to more important matters.

Apparently a lot of people care if somebody is black or white, even U.S. Supreme Court justices.

See who can guess which Supreme Court Justice thinks it is appropriate to use race as a criteria to exclude kids from getting into a college? What you have here is a Supreme Court Justice saying it is ok to treat people different because of their race.

"It is hard to see what is inappropriate in assigning some stated value to a relevant characteristic, whether it be reasoning ability, writing style, running speed, or race."

Now, which Supreme Court justice thinks that racial discrimination is NOT appropriate?

Racial discrimination is not a permissible solution.

reply to post by Sri Oracle


So your saying, and i agree with. That all races given the same enviroment and stimulations, will within a very few generations flatten the bell curve out.....scarey thing is that it sounds just like page 3 of the NWO playbook

Originally posted by Flyer
You can get a conclusion.

You could go to Japan and see a 6ft 6" guy and go to Europe and see a 5ft guy but it doesnt stop you coming to the conclusion that Europeans are generally taller than Japanese.

Now the study may be right or wrong but saying you know an intelligent black man or a stupid white man proves absolutely nothing.

Generally is NOT what we are after here.

Saying "you know an intelligent black man or a stupid white man" proves not all whites are smart and not all blacks are dumb, thus, making this test moot/irrelevant/futile. The test was concluding (wrongly) that African Americans are dumb genetically, which is not the case.

Originally posted by 1337cshacker


Saying "you know an intelligent black man or a stupid white man" proves not all whites are smart and not all blacks are dumb, thus, making this test moot/irrelevant/futile. The test was concluding (wrongly) that African Americans are dumb genetically, which is not the case.

First, it was not a test.

Second, the conclusion was not about African-Americans.

Third, without data, there is no way to honestly make judgments that any race is genetically more likely to be more intelligent overall than any other race. You saying that the conclusion is flat out wrong is no better than people saying it is right.

Only after we learn to judge each other as individuals will there be equality. As long as we insist on separating ourselves by Race or Origin there is no hope of overcoming this.

This thread is certainly unnecessary and rude. Is it any worse than a thread claiming special favor for a Race due to persecution. Bigotry and Bias works both ways. It is a sad fact of life.

I predict a thousand years from now, no matter how enlightened we become, we will still be forming separate groups critical of one another. It IS in our Genes I suppose.

If I'm a Gifted Mathematician am I any more valuable than the Gifted Carpenter who builds my Kitchen Cabinets. No I am not. It is pure Bigotry that dictates one has higher status or earns more than the other. That is the dark side of the Human Condition that we wear to our shame. If it were not White against Black against Hispanic and so on it would be something else. White Collar against Blue Collar is just as insidious.

FYI:

Dr. Watson shouldn't be attacked for his ideas. He could be right.

I don't know if anyone has posted this info yet. There is a plethora of information to indicate that there are, in my opinion, at least 3 distinct sub-genus to the homo sapiens sapines genus:

1. Asain (Asian sub-genus)
2. White (Caucasus sub-genus)
3. Black (Africanus sub-genus)

1. The asians are the smartest - smarter then white and black.
2. The whites are smarter than black but not smarter than asians
3. The blacks are not as smart as the other two sub-groups

I read the the Bell Curve and a few others but the most notable with the best information by far is "Race, Evolution and Behavior: A Life History Perspective" by J. Philippe Rushton. You can get more info here:

en.wikipedia.org...

His research is solid and in my experience it all holds true. Asians have more gray matter than whites, whites have more gray matter than black.

There are genetic differences between these three major sub-groups of the human species and it is a genetic difference.

Genetics does play a fundamental role in the development of cognitive skills. Education also plays a role and so does the over-all cultural environment. All of it influences the development and capacity to learn and retain knowledge. It also influences the vocational dispositions of the races. Successful Asians tend towards engineering, Whites are sort of jocks-of-all trades and blacks seem to have a monopoly on sports, or anything of a physical or violent nature, due to their genetic disposition being geared toward those vocations.

It is not a secret that entrance exams to universitys, colleges and even to middle-schools have had to be lowered because of pressure from minority groups who have "cried" that the exams are too difficult for blacks specifically and for minorities in general.

I think that is disgraceful; to lower the tests to accomodate those who are not capable of passing the original "too difficult" exams, it is an injustice to those of us who could/did pass the exams and are smarter than most. It also hurts the overall economy of the US and other countries that enforce racial quotas for entrance to university; or that enforce racial inequality through quotas for any thing. It means that the national level of cognition is lowered = "dumbing down"..... You people who scream about the dumbing down of the U.S..... here's the root cause. We have lowered the bar of education and have thus more people who are incapable of critical thought and do not possess the necessary intelligence to guide the country. It is most noticable here at ATS with all the mis-spelled words, poor grammer et cetera. There are posts that I still cannot figure out.

By the way I am one of those who is classified as a minority. I am not a racist. I am also not politically correct in nature and do not mind discussions about racism. I know that there are differences and that no one is truly "equal". And anyone who thinks that there is no difference between the various "races" is naive.

-Euclid

Johannesburg, South Africa - In the boardroom of South Africa's legendary black newspaper, the Sowetan, there hangs on the wall the following injunction: "What have you done with your freedom, South Africa? Don't let it go to waste. Cherish it."

It is now 13 years since South Africa turned its back on the oppressive era of apartheid and, in a remarkably peaceful transition, embraced democracy. Much has been accomplished as blacks and whites sculpt a new, multiracial nation. But the warning in the Sowetan's boardroom is a reminder that democracy must be nurtured to flourish.

While many of the fruits of freedom have gone to the former black revolutionaries who now hold cabinet posts, sit in Parliament, and hold other government positions with substantial salaries and perks, there remain large numbers of blacks whose impatient, and perhaps unrealistic, expectations of the transition from white power to black have not been met.

Shantytowns have not been replaced with affordable housing. Water and electricity and other basic requirements of the infrastructure to support democracy are still lacking for many. Official agencies are sometimes bastions of bureaucratic incompetence and corruption. In Johannesburg, it can take more than four months to get your car license renewed. Some citizens say they circumvent the system by "buying" their renewals – slipping a bribe to a licensing officer.

South Africa has just outpaced India as the country with the highest incidence of AIDS in the world, and critics say the government has been tardy in grappling with the problem.

Though opportunities have arisen for some upper-class blacks to prosper in business, many others still live in squalor. For many, the jobs that they thought would come overnight with democracy have never materialized. Unemployment is running around 25 percent.

Thus the big cities such as Johannesburg have become seedbeds for robbery and violent hijacking, making crime South Africa's biggest problem.


Proof is in the pudding. ITS NOT JUST AMERICA. They act this way everywhere.

reply to post by euclid


We talked about that briefly In class, Asians primarily have higher scores due to standards they may have. Ie. an A+ may be perfectly good standards for them, while a B or B+ might be failing or below par. As for African-Americans an B- or C might be perfect while anything below is not acceptable. Same going for those who are white. It all depends on the level of standards from what I've been taught, and so far it seems to hold water okay for now.

Originally posted by robert z

Originally posted by 1337cshacker


Saying "you know an intelligent black man or a stupid white man" proves not all whites are smart and not all blacks are dumb, thus, making this test moot/irrelevant/futile. The test was concluding (wrongly) that African Americans are dumb genetically, which is not the case.

First, it was not a test.

Second, the conclusion was not about African-Americans.

Third, without data, there is no way to honestly make judgments that any race is genetically more likely to be more intelligent overall than any other race. You saying that the conclusion is flat out wrong is no better than people saying it is right.

Ah, I understand now. Thank you, I was a bit confused.

Genetically, some people think they are superior to others.

Cache 22, Mr. Racist.

[edit on 18-10-2007 by Knightshadowz]

Instead of posting statistics from random polls and other peoples opinions... Why don't we all post our own conclusions on the intelligence of blacks based on our own experiences.

I've already posted mine. Again, I live in an area highly populated by blacks (minutes south of Oakland, CA)... I've also traveled around the states and have done business with groups of blacks from San Francisco to New York. My high school was 40% black.

In my experiences with blacks that I have personally dealt with more often than not fit the typical negative stereotype. Loud, rude and stupid.

That's my 100% honest opinion.

It's the kind of thing you usually keep to yourself as to not offend an entire race of people, but in my experience it's been the truth.

Anyone else with a fair amount of experience with blacks willing to give their honest opinion?

Originally posted by 123143
This is just ridiculous. I can't believe people are still kicking this old ball around. The only differences between humans are skin color and bone structure.

thats already been proven wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt.