The Palmarian Church - Anyone Familiar With These Guys??

I think, deep, deep down he enjoys it.

If there was nothing to complain about life would be so, so boring - no excitement, so I think he gets a kick out of it; but that's just my personal opinion, of course - I have no documentation to back it up; just hearsay & innuendo!

M

[edit on 31-10-2007 by marker3221]

Well, if there's no documentation.....

Someone summon MULTIS!

[edit on 31-10-2007 by ihp07]

I'M BACK!!!

Been very busy as of late & my password got changed, Sparklem if that was you - cut it out!

Only Joking...

Marker

ps. Just thinking it could have been some evil trickster, it was Halloween afterall!!

[edit on 7-11-2007 by marker3221]

I think it was sparklem

Christmas is coming soon, you know they banned Santa Clause since I left, the poor kids, that was my fav time of year, Xmas tress are gone too.

In fact they banned Christmas!! Sounds like something out of the Grinch

M

Well,
If you spray painted Isi green, he does sort of resemble the Grinch. But I think the Grinch is happier.

Hi Marker

Thanks for getting back to me. Couldnt send you a U2U through my profile but have set up my comments section. Its so refreshing to know there are actually people out there that are as annoyed at this farce as I and my family are. Look forward to speaking to you.

Take care

Exact copy of post I posted on Factnet.org

I feel in necessary to spread the information.

Hi Everyone,

Just today I found a leaflet from Palmar de Troya that I had in storage (I was looking for something else at the time)

At the back it had a description of a vision that Clemente had in 2001, I realized after crosschecking the date that it was describing an ecstasy that was video taped, of which I have a copy in digital format on my hard drive.

What follows is the description given to Palmarians of the event:

-------------------------------------------

VISION OF HIS HOLINESS POPE GREGORY XVII
ON THE TRIUMPH OF THE HOLY PALMARIAN CHURCH

On the 1st of January of the year 2001, at about 11.10 at night in the central nave of the Palmarian Cathedral-Basilica, at the conclusion of the Most Solemn Procession with the Scared Images of Our Crowned Mother of El Palmar and Most Holy Crowned St Joseph of El Palmar:

His Holiness Pope Gregory XVII, while still vested in the Pontifical Ornaments of the Scared Ceremony, had a magnificent vision of the triumph of the Holy Palmarian Church

In this ecstasy appeared Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Most Holy Virgin Mary, Most Holy Joseph and St Teresa of Jesus. The Lord came surrounded by a multitude of Angels.

There also appeared Pope St Paul VI, St Peter Martin Ngo Dinh Thuc; as well as the Apostles St Peter and St Paul, who placed themselves respectively at the right and left of His Holiness Pope Gregory XVII, while Christ was before him.

Then appeared St Angela of the Cross, St Pio of Pietrelcina and St Francis of Paola. The last named came up to the Lord, knelt before Him and prayed for the Palmarian Church; Christ told St Francis of Paola: "The work is in your hands; help my Church"

His Holiness Pope Gregory XVII kissed Christ's feet three times, and the Lord blessed everyone present three times.

Our Lord Jesus Christ gave the following message to His Holiness Pope Gregory XVII: "BE AT PEACE! HOWEVER MUCH THE ENEMIES COMBAT THE HOLY PALMARIAN CHURCH, THEY WILL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST HER."

--------------------------------------

So ends the description

It is also interesting to note some dates:

May 18th 1982 - United Press International reports that Clemente & eight Bishops get run out of a Church, chased, beaten & almost lynched.

July 30th 1982 - Clemente announces the withdrawl of all Celestial powers from non-Palmarian Priests & the Church ban is put in place. (documented in same leaflet, vision & announcement, I can post on request)


Almost exactly 2 months after the events in Alba de Tormes. It all fits together, Columba your statement regarding the origin of the Church ban seems to be bang on.


And finally here is the unedited & full "Vison" or Ecstasy, I have not added any sound, music etc. It is the full version and can be seen here:

Video Footage of Event


I hope this helps people in some way to understand the way the Palmarians operate, its rare to get both actual video of an event and the Palmarians spin. Judge for yourself by looking at the footage.


Marker


[edit on 16-11-2007 by marker3221]

Hey,

For anyone reading this thread new info has recently come to light. It seems the current Leader of the Palmarian Church Pope Peter II (Fr Isidore/Alonso Manuel Corral) has now ordered all members to donate 10% of their income to the Cult or face ex-communication.(expulsion)

Also the rumour abounds that Peter II is suffering from cancer, which is steadily getting worse, so much so he can only celebrate Mass on a Sunday.

This has been thrown into a little doubt as I heard from another source that he was quite sick but improved, however that info is older than the newer info that he is badly sick.

This may either spell the end of this Cult or it will enter into a new reign of radicalism under Fr Sergio the next in line to be Leader & apprantly a tyrant.

Sergio was not a part of teh founding three (Clemente Dominguez y Gomez - Pope Gregory XVII (dead) Fr Elias (dead) & Alonso Manuel Corral Pope Peter II)


Only time will tell where this destructive & potentially dangerous Cult is headed.

Marker

Hi!

I just found out that my friend is now married and living in Austria with someone from the Palmarian Church. They were living and working in Spain but lost their jobs so they moved back with her family.

Can you tell me why it is that you left the Church and why you call it a cult? I know/believe it is a cult and feel this over-whelming concern for him.

A big part of me believe that he will wake-up and leave the Church. Is this just wishful thinking on my part?

Also, how is life for you outside the Church?

Hi Love,

Sorry to hear about this, if your friend married a Palmarian he/she must have entered the "faith".

The Palmarian Church, Order of the Last Times, Carmelites of the Holy Face or whichever name they choose to use is a destructive Cult, it bears all the hallmarks of a Cult.

I was raised in this faith & subjected to its brainwashing techniques. If yoyur looking for more information on these guys visit these links:

Palmar Support Website

Rickross.com

Rickross.com is a site that deals with Cults, the documents/information on there is info I had in my personal possession & persisted (almost to the point of harrasment) to get them up, the owner finally did so many thanks to him.

In regards to myself, I left nearly about 10 years ago & still suffer the affects of living in this Cult. (they are personal issues which can be dealt with, nothing psycotic or anything!)

I'm out & doing well now, Im self employed but wish to see the end of these guys. The story is too long to tell here; but any questions hit me up & I'll be glad to answer them.

All The Best,

Marker


ps. it seems that the Support Website is down, I'll contact the host & see what's going on. Sorry, but I've been so busy lately I've been out of the loop for a while.

I hope this is helpful to you, I understand how frustrated you must be.






[edit on 18-2-2008 by marker3221]

Hi Marker
I too was brought up in this "faith" and left it over 15 years ago. You said that you are still affected by it - can you say how? There are members of my family still involved in it and still others badly affected as a result of this.

Hi Rowans,

Im sorry to hear about your family, mine are the same unfortunately. As for the affect it has had on me, mainly emotional that I wont go into online but to say that i find it hard to form relationships & open up my emotions.

Also I suffer from a neurological disorder (that i wont go into) that my doctor told me was caused by "severe emotional distress", this I feel will take many years to eradicate. A lasting mark by Clemente & Co.

As for my family it is split down the middle, read over my previous posts & you'll know my story.

Im out over 10 years, about the same as yourself, I feel from your post that you may be suffering as a result of this, can you tell me in which way?

Write back, i get very busy especially since the new year & may be long periods between replies, but I will always answer

All the best & I hope it works out for you in the end, I feel my family will never leave.

Marker

Hi Marker
Thank you for your kind response. I don’t suffer as a result of the past but I am bothered that my family and other good people may have been duped by it all. I know people who dedicated their lives to it, who put it ahead of everything in their lives and think it is awful if they have been deceived. The “extra-curricular” activities reported of the “chiefs” are particularly worrying considering the depth of faith of some followers.
I am not suffering but I am bothered by the fact that I wonder what is going on with Palmarians and I am curious about the people that I used to know in it. I would love to find out about them and how they are doing – just because I knew these people years ago. Your previous posts are interesting because you have actually spoken about things I remember like the “Papal” trip to Dublin.
I really look forward to the documentary you spoke of. Saw one a while back on the Swords family who tried to get their daughter back but we could definitely do with a full exposé.
Best wishes
Rowans

Hi Rowans,

Forgive my late reply, I have been up to my eyes!!

Judging from your recollection of Clemente's visit I assume your Irish, as you've probably guessed so am I. A couple of years ago when the factnet site started to really take off one of the posters organized a meeting of ex-palmarians in Dublin.

Attending were a few ex-lay members & a bishop or two, this was a support group & to actually meet & speak with people ho have had direct experience of the Palmarian faith & what destruction it has caused was quite liberating. Everyone just wanted to talk to each other & swap stories.
Unfortunately this kind of stopped due to reasons I dont know, probably conflicting schedules & these things just pitter out.

The documentary I spoke of will be a long process which I have yet to begin properly; this documentary contrary to what some people on other sites will say, will NOT be for personal profit, that I can assure you & it will be approached with the utmost caution, with the help & guidance of some trusted ex-palmarians.

How long are you out? I can remember watching the doc on the Swords family (I know their name but wont disclose it) RTE didnt get the bigger picture & just focused on the single human interest story while missing the huge corruption at the centre of this Cult, sadly at that time palmarians were watching tv, now they can't so a new doc will get limited existing palmy's watching.

but enough of my waffle, ask me some questions or tell me about your experiences & lets open a line of dialogue, other ex-palmarians will see & hopefully respond!

Kind Regards & All The Best,

Marker

thought I would drop a note into this conversation. I am an ex-palmarian, I have thankfully been out of the church since the world cup in 1998. I will never forget that summer. best decision - hardest decision I ever made. I havent seen most of my family since - the typical story.
I read the factnet chat a while ago but got fed up with all the jesus freaks adding their diatribe of nausea. I am also from Ireland - though the good half ie "the north" havent really had any contact with any one since I left, including people who left - apart from my 2 sisters.
the best thing about being out is living a life free from fear and guilt. its like breathing fresh free air. reading peoples stories brings it all back and even after all this time I struggle to get my head round it. my poor poor lost dad. he is so hopelessly drowning it in all. i dont even think he would leave if he wanted to. they really trap you dont they. i miss him.
On a lighter note - I enjoyed re reading the rules... I laughed at that one.. you didnt get the "adult rules" ? the does and donts of a palmarian marriage? takes control to a whole new crazy level. hilarious - Its all funny now I'm clear of it - It took me a few years to get my head straight however I think the general consensus is Im a fairly well adjusted normal bloke.
interested in anything to be said on the topic - i think I recognise a few contributors here.. no names of course!!
Kind regards to all. the turkeysandwich man

Hey Turkeysanwich,

Thanks for popping into the conversation!! Great to hear from other ex-members on this topic. I understand what your saying about getting out, it pretty much mirrors my feelings on it although I still slip into negative feelings, anger, frustration, sadness, nostalga and the rest.

I read in your response that you recognize some posters, I think I recognize who you are, again like your post no names on here!

You or anyone else can get my on my anon email address: [email protected]

Hit me up with one & we'll see if our assumptions are on the mark.

Its also important to keep a thread going, this particular one has got nearly 7,000 hits so is high up in the google search, should keep the conversation flowing - of course free of the theological debate & sniping that destroyed the Factnet site.

Glad to have you on board & lets keep it moving

Marker

Hi Marker and Turkeysandwich
Its really good to read ex-members feelings. I left in 1992 although I don’t remember an exact moment I made the decision – I think it was more of a gradual breaking away. I had 2 (nonpalmarian) weddings to go to that summer and basically I just went and that was it. I was hounded with phone calls from the priest for ages and it used to really give me the creeps and make me feel very uncomfortable to talk to him or hear his voice on my answering machine. Turkeysandwich mentioned the freedom from guilt and fear when you leave and it reminded me of the constant fear that was instilled in me when I was younger. I remember one particular instance when there had been a big call to Palmar at Easter. I was only about 11 and on our way back to the village after an evening of prayer, an older person was saying that a message had come through to Clemente saying that the world had been due to end that night but there had been so much praying done that it had been avoided. This scared the living daylights out of me. It’s only now that I have children of my own and try to protect them from being scared (about anything) that it hits home about the fear that this church gave people and how it got into their minds.
Do either of you know how many people are still in it in the South and North (I am from the North too Turkeysandwich)? Is there a priest and base in Ireland for these people?
Look forward to seeing more posts on this site – I think it’s doing me good!
Rowans

Hi Rowans,

I left around around 1997 my leaving was in the wake of two of my siblings leaving before me, my faith at the point was well gone so I just took the jump & stuck to it.

I never got a call from the priest but my sister did, along with letters saying if she returned all would be forgiven etc etc. I also know all too well about the fear, the impact the theology & promises of a coming & imminent war on a young mind was incredible; catechism class & the constant sermons all served the same purpose, instill the fear & dangle the carrot on a stick in the form of salvation & heaven & you have them suckered, get them young & you have the next generation. A classic tool that has been used for centuries.

But it stays with you - what if war is coming? - bombing has started in some country, is this it?? - were they right & I wrong? All of these feelings went through. For about 2/3 years after I left I would still feel fear & guilt when I walked down to a beach!!!

Crazy what lasting affect they can have on your mind.

To answer your questions, yes there is a priest based in dublin & I have no problem disclosing the location - Haddon Road, Clontarf, Dublin 3, when coming from the coast 1st house on your right just after the small apartment complex, detached, enclosed with hedges & private. I still go past on the bus & see the cars outside!!

As for how many people, I would say not many, a lot have left in the wake of the severe rules introduced in 2005, how many I dont know, maybe 100, maybe less, I'd bet on less though.

I can also remember being brought to spain in 1996 (in hindsight it was an attempt to pull me back) and I had lost all faith in the theology completely, I viewed Palmar, Clemente, the faithful in a detached way & this just exposed it in my mind as a blatant falsity that I wanted no part of. That trip firmly put me on my way to leaving - ironic that it ended up doing the complete opposite of what it was meant to do - bring me back in!!!

All the Best Guys,


And I'm the same, this is a bit of therapy!!


Marker

thanks for the responses.. very interesting really isnt it. I am sure there are 1000's of people directly or indirectly affected by these people. My parents got involved in the 1980's after my grandfather had been to spain in the 70's when all the hype was peaking. he convinced my mum and then my dad joined. years later when I asked him why he joined he said it was due to disaullusionment with the catholic changes with vatican 2. when he joined palmar it was much more based on a purely religious rationale. it was only years into it did they start turning the screws and changing the rules like not wearing shorts and beaches and the like.

my own opinions were only formed in the 90's as I went through my later teens. I began to really question why everything was done out of a feeling of fear of hell and brimstone and a terrible guilt over any "sins" committed.
there was very little compassion for anything and I really began to doubt the clarity of messages coming from the pope. after the cold war ended it became obvious that russia may not have been the scourge everyone was hoping for - gradually, subtley the new enemy to start a ww3 and to be put to the sword became our arab neighbours across the med... all hilarious stuff.
what really pushed me over the edge was the revelation that man genetically engineered dinosaurs who were all drowned when noah took to his floating zoo.... very interesting indeed.
I can see the destruction the religion has caused in my mothers family. all the siblings are affected in one way or another and it has ruined relationships between them all, unfortunately it is happening in my family too and my brothers and sisters are totally terrified of leaving and disappointing my dad.. so so sad. its living a life founded on blackmail.
I dont believe in religion anymore, and if im wrong I reckon I did enough praying in my first 20 years to do the average person a lifetime! happy easter.