The Palmarian Church - Anyone Familiar With These Guys??

Hi Quazz,

The ban on talking to apostate family members is in place, and strictly upheld. For instance I am completely cut off from my family - zero contact. I see my mother on the streets of Dublin (we're a small city) and she turns her head away, won't look at me.

This is in place to prevent ex-members from convincing existing members its all lies; as we have an inside take on things.

People / Family members who were never Palmarian can be talked to but must be dressed accordingly etc. This has caused some tension amoung my other family members, they must even be dressed properly if they are speaking over the phone!!

In regards to other sects, the ones you mentioned, I have little or no knowledge of these so I am not in a position to comment, sorry.

I will say that the word CULT is overused & very much vague which is very frustrating, but there are some determining factors that most of the major Cults have in common. I once found an excellant article on Cults & how they operate, I don't have time to dig it out right now but here is a link to another article which will give you some identifying factors:

www.ehow.com...

Thanks Quazz,

Marker.

ps. I don't know if many people know this, but I recently heard that Clementes prohecy of regaining his eyesight has come true. The new Pope (Corral / Peter II) is not blind and has eyes - so you see he said the POPE not HIMSELF. So The Palmarians are being fed this c**p. I would bet if you looked it up Clemente mentions himself specifically, if anyone can find it, please post it up.

The Palmarians can't, they were ordered to destroy all the old documents so they can't back check.

pps. I know my spelling has been real bad as of late, but I have to type real fast as I have very little time, apologies.

M





[edit on 3-6-2008 by marker3221]

Hey Guys,

Someone kindly sent me on this little tit-bit from an old pro-palmar website, this quote is taken from the small red booklet they used to hand out (I have a copy somewhere) called something similar to "Our Blessed Pope Gregory XVII - A Short Biographical Sketch"

In relation to his car accident, blindness & subsequent prophecy mentioned above:


"This suffering reaches an indescribable peak of desolation with the loss of both eyes as the result of an infernal accident occurring on the 29th of May 1976. But Our Lord has promised that no one shall prevail against the Order of Carmelites of the Holy Face, for the Most Holy Virgin covers her lovingly with Her Mantle. The blind Founder and Bishop Primate lives in the hope that one day, not far distant, he will recover his eyes through a miracle and many souls will be converted. Our Lord has thus made it known to him."


Now, I would bet my bottom dollar Corral will come back saying that he was also a Founder & Bishop so low & behold the sight of the Founder & Bishop[ Primate has been restored - truly Our Lord's ways are mysterious; or something to that effect.


Thus is the way of Palmarian theology. Plus thanks to the member who sent me the link, greatly appreciated.


Marker

edit to add link to story:

www.geocities.com...

m

[edit on 3-6-2008 by marker3221]

[edit on 3-6-2008 by marker3221]

Hey,

Anyone else here got any questions, or just want to post something, hit me up.

Marker

thanks a lot for this thread.

a half year ago, i met somebody. I knew she is member by a special religion, but didn't care what kind of because i'm not really religious, but I accept their beliefs.

We had an affair over the last half year till now. sometimes she told me she wants to quit and stuff like that. 2 weeks ago, she told me she has to stop the affair because she want to stay 100% for her religions and then it is not possible that we can continue with our affair. Till yesterday, I still had no worries but then she wrote me a message which included strange stuff like "we never listen to others opinions". That and other phrases just didn't match to her because she never said "we" and "us" before. I just knew she had some kind of conversation with her parents who found out the she didn't lived the last half year after their rules. And since then, it seems like she has totally changed.

Today, I searched some information about this religion, and now i'm here, and therefore i'm really shocked and scared and have no idea what I should and can do..... I just know she really loves me, and that might was the reason that she didn't take care of the rules. But now, it looks like her family changed her opinion or meaning of their religion within a weekend.

Totally strange and I'm confused. Easiest way is to break up everything, no contact, nothing. But then I still have this bad feeling that she is just 20 and might have a great live without the religion, because she is a wonderful and talented person. But can somebody ever forget something like that after 20 years?? Will she ever change her beliefes? May be I totally destroy her life if I try to "help" her....

Strange situation, may be somebody of you had similar experience and give me some advise.

Hi Anon,

From reading your post I would say that it is most likely her family discovered the affair & confronted her.

They would have threatened ex-communication, complete family cut-off and the like.

If this is the case, she would have been intimidated into ending the relationship. She has told you she felt like leaving & chucking it all in, I would say this is still true, but the mortal fear of being cut adrift from all she knows (her family & friends in the cult) is more powerful.

I should know, I've been there myself, its a truly terrifying experience to face life alone when coming out of a Cult, this is one of their greatest assets for keeping people in, they know how terrifying it is for someone.

She may look upon your relationship as short-term & unreliable for what she would face if / when she leaves. In actual fact its not as bad as it seems from within, once you get out the instant feeling of freedom is somewhat overwhelming.

I would say try to make contact, very, very, very subtly. I don't know if you would work with this person etc, or if you may have a chance, but I would leave it a few weeks for her family to calm down, as they are surely keeping a tight rein on her on the moment.

Show her this thread, the Factnet thread, the videos on YouTube to make her more confidant in choosing to leave, there are some ex-members out here that would be willing to help her if this were the case.

I believe that there are many Palmarians who do believe that its all junk, but are too terrified of life "outside" that fear will keep them in.

Plus the stigma of an "apostate" and the fear of Hell. (Yes, you do fear Hell even if you believe its all junk, a little piece of your brain still thinks "What if....")

All of the above is just a Guideline Anon, this all depends on what level of contact you have or if my assumptions are correct. But this is a familiar pattern that I have seen before.

Take care & let me know if you have any more questions.

I wish you the best of luck & truly hope this girl is sincere in her disbelief of the Palmarian Church & she finds the strength to break free.


Marker

Hi!

Could you tell me if it is possible to return to the Palmarian Church after being excommunicated?

And how do Palmarians know how the person with whom they talk on the phone is dressed? It's always possible that this person says that he/she is dressed "properly" but in fact is naked - so wouldn't it be safer not to talk on the phone at all? Do some Palmys think such way?

Hi Quazz,

Yes, it is possible for someone to return. In fact they make a big issue out of it.

I could go back & they would accept meback into their flock.

Clemente loved to make himself look like a just & forgiving person, so he would ex-communicate people & when they made amends, allow them back in; boasting of his terrific capability for forgiveness & the person in question would be saying how wrong he / she / they were to leave.

This practice was common throughout all the ranks of Palmarian's. For instance, my sister had repeated calls from the Priest here asking her to return, saying the door would always be open for her to return, she told him to go to hell.

Its a propaganda piece to portray them as just & forgiving, when they are cruel & cunning.

For example, I heard that when Clemente expelled the 18 bishops in 2000, he fully expected them to return with their tail between their legs & he would grant forgiveness in a very public fashion - a huge PR coup.

This didn't happen, they turned against him & formed Archidona Group. Apparently he never got over this.

(Again if anyone from this group wants to clarify or correct me, please do so)


The phone / dress code issue is laughable at best, yes you could be standing naked & tell them you were dressed properly, how would they know????? _javascript:icon('') But they do it all the same!!

Any more questions or anyone wishes to share or correct me, again please feel free by joining or posting an anonymous post.


Marker







[edit on 10-6-2008 by marker3221]

reply to post by marker3221


Sorry no time to fully register, but have been watching the thread.

Just to update you on the 'telephone' rule and the dress code (norms). I understand that there was a general misinterpretation of that rule, (convenient eh?), the latest info suggests that there is to be no telephone contact with non-members. Only written communication via letter not text.
Ok that gets over the idea that non members will play the game and declare that they are dressed according to palmarian rules, but there is also the more sinister question....is all correspondence being screened by their priests?
Or, perhaps it just gives members greater control over the information that they give out i.e. they have time to consider and reflect on anything they write, after all it is a very secretive society. This may be relevant to the previous poster who received a strange letter from his girl friend, which sounded unlike her...perhaps she was instructed on what to write.

In relation to that gentleman my advice is to try and meet with your friend if possible. If you have strong feelings for her then I think you should try to help her because if you do not then there is a good chance she will very soon encouraged to match up with someone within the sect and be married off.

This means she will be tied to another palmarian and will probably shortly produce the next generation of palmarians. Being a wife and mother within the religion would make it almost impossible for her to get out, she is unlikely to have have the independent financial means or the emotional and spiritual strength to take the courageous steps needed to leave.

20 years of being palmarian will leave a mark on her for life but with the right support and gentle understanding she can get through it, and you might be her last chance for help.

Sorry to put all this on your shoulders, but having been in a similar position to your friend a long time ago and survived the heartache, I just felt the need to say what I thought. Follow your heart and your conscience either way.

What do you know about the rules within a marriage?

And how does it work if somebody doesn't find the right husband or wife (because it is a limited community)? Who does the choice? Is it possible to stay single as a woman?

reply to post by qazzz


I have been observing this thread on the Palmarian Church with some interest. I am a Greek Catholic priest. I feel bad that so many persons have been exposed to such a caricature of authentic Catholicism. In every religion (and even outside of religion) there are those who are fanatically obsessed with negativity and alienation from the world.

I found these words particularly meaningful:
QUAZZ wrote:

So much emphasis on rules, the "Us versus Them" attitude, the negativity and paranoia! External observance of "purity" laws do not guarantee that a person has a genuine Christian spirit.

Christ warned against those who would obsess about external uncleanness and neglect the direction of their heart. When people thought that drinking from an unwashed cup made the person himself unclean, Christ had this to say: (Matthew 15:16-20).

I don't want to be a Bible thumper, but I do have one more Gospel reference. Christ rebuked the hypocritical Scribes and Pharisees because they over emphasized the less important parts of the Jewish law but neglected the most important parts of God's law:

For the full context, see St. Matthew Chapter 23.

God bless all of you who are sharing your experiences with others, especially with those who have been similarly victimized by this so-called church.

reply to post by marker3221


I am learning more and more about this sect. My uncle, Rev. Michael Thomas Donnelly, was consecrated by Pierre Martin on 1/1/76. He did leave the Palmarian Church after discussions with colleagues from the Montforte Missionaries, of which he was a part for many years. Basically, the Montforte Missionaries sent 2 "ambassadors" to convince my uncle that he had made a grave mistake. My uncle died in 1982 and I am only now learning the details of his involvement with the Palmarians. For quite some time, my family was ashamed of his involvement.

Sincerely,
Patricia Donnelly
Toledo, OH

Hi i have a sister involved and could you tell me what tactics to use to get to see her.
I do not want to interfere with her beliefs but would like to see her as i have not heard from her for over a year.

reply to post by marker3221

It is amazing how a blind man could give such long theological sermons without notes. How could this be?

Hi to all,

I'm just returned yesterday from holidays in Andalusia.
Returning from Cordova I have seen this huge cathedral in El Palmar de Troya.
So I stopped my car and I've tried to enter to make take some pictures.
But I have found the mentioned big wall and the big gate closed with no signs. I didn't understand wich kind of church it was until today I've done a search on internet and I've found this post.

Do you believe it was dangerous looking around the walls ?

Outside the walls there was a cross with some writings and flowers it was part of the cult?

Thank you anybody to reply my questions

Hi guys,

I thank you for your posts & questions, they are greatly appreciated.

Just to answer some questions as best I can, firstly thank you to the Greek Priest for your kind words. As a non-Catholic now I do not follow any Creed or Theology, only my true self & my sense of right & wrong. I appreciate your interest & input into this thread. Thank You.

To the person who has a sister involved, I cannot give any clear guidance for attempts to steer her away from the Palmarian Church, they are very meticulous in their brainwashing & scare tactics.

I would say to subtly raise the subject, mention some of the truths you have read here & other places, but DO NOT push it if/when she refuses to listen. If you do do, contact will be severed permanently. Perhaps (and I only say perhaps) over time, quite a lot of time, just mention it now & again, she may begin to respond, from there take it very slowly in telling her the truth, it is very hard to take from the inside. I know of grown men who have cried when they discovered it was all lies.

Be very, very patient, if you do not have contact but can initiate it, do so, but do NOT mention the Palmarian Church for at least a few months, just take it from there.

That is all the advice I can give you, hopefully you can gradually succeed, but be aware this could take a lot of time, so subtle tactics & a lot of patience is an absolute necessity.

My Mother will not even look at me on the street for instance, I have seen her regularly for 3 years now!


To the person who see the walls & Basilica - it is an impressive sight isn't it? this massive structure in the desert. There was a time when people were welcomed into the walls & given Palmarian propaganda, to my knowledge this has now all stopped now. All the Leaders & Bishops are living behind those walls.

The gates are guarded by men with dogs & machine guns, I do not want to frighten anybody as I do not think they would ever harm anyone, but I have seen them with my own eyes when I was a member & walked through those gates into the Basilica & met Clemente & Co.

A note on the White cross that always intrigued me. As a member I was told to keep away from them as they were "enemies of the Church" it is only later I found out the truth.

Back in the early 1970's when there was only a small group, Clemente & Corral came along. Clemente began to have visions etc & soon became a Leader of sorts. The original Seers (people who claimed visions before Clemente arrived) became suspicious of his intent & claimed him to be hoaxing his visions for his own gain.

There was a split in the group, with the majority going with Clemente. He damned the original Seers (who brought him into the group) and "banished" them..

The White Cross was erected by the original group as a true tribute to the original "visions" at the site, this stayed as it was outside of the land that Clemente bought with finances from a mysterious American donor.

I only ever seen a small group (4 or 5) at the Cross at any one time & at present I do not know if there is anyone connected with it. But there it stands.

So it is NOT part of the Palmarian Church, but it is a tribute to the original apparitions in 1969.

Was there anything else you seen at the site? I have not been there in 10 years...


Again thank you for your questions they are greatly appreciated, if anyone else wants to ask or share their experiences, please do so, this is an open forum & a resoiurce for people seeking the TRUTH on the Palmarian Church.

I am great indebted to everyone who posts.

Thanks Guys,

Marker

Marker,

Sarah here,

on an interesting note, you mentioned that there was once a chapel in your family home? I would have thought that being from Dublin also, I would have then once visited your home, but I never did. However, interestingly, 26 years ago, when my father and mother got married, they got married in your family home at the time, which he told me was later given up to a priest for him to live there.

The priest that married my parents was father Cyril. It wasnt father Cyril that lived in your parents house, but another priest, my father cant remember his name.

Very interesting and thought-provoking topic which I have enjoyed reading.

Could you tell us a little more about what changes were made to the Palmarian version of the Bible? And what was their doctrine on the role of Mary?

Stefan.

reply to post by queenannie38


The word cult in Spanish does not have the same meaning as cult in English. In Spanish it has the meaning of worship. Hope that helps.

To Marker
you said "I see my mother on the streets of Dublin (we're a small city) and she turns her head away, won't look at me."

I feel it is important to comment to all ex palmarians, when you see another family member on the street I suggest you approach them , go out of your way to make sure you brush shoulders with her and say "hi Mom, I love you " (or similar)and then keep walking ,or waive to them and acknowledge them from were you are , ALWAYS with a smile.

Why you ask? because clemente's rules do not apply to YOU anymore, there is nothing stopping you from acknowledging them, only bitterness and anger if you give into the emotions.

Marker, by waiving or speaking to your mother (she wont speak back of course) you accomplise two very important things, (1) for yourself , it helps in the healing process and (2) you pull at her heart strings, you keep your mothers emotions 'awake' which will keep her 'conscience' awake also, and we can all pray that by keeping their conscience awake they might reach the point of leaving PDT.

We must remember that they are all under the 'spell' of clemente and we must re-ignite their conscience to bring them out of it.

Marker this will take courage the first time you do it because you will get a rush of emotions, but keep doing it and it will help you and hopefully help your palmarian family members too.

Hey guys,

Been while since Ive been on, Life intervenes & you get very busy!!

To the poster who asked about the Palmarian Bible, unfortunately I am unable to answer questions as I have never read it, I regret not snatching a copy when I was leaving.

Maybe some else reading can answer it for you?

Regarding the Spanish translation of Cult, that I didn't know. Its very interesting, seen as they used the term (in english) to describe them selves in the 1970's.

And to the final poster I fully agree with you. When I do see my mother I wave, smile / wink. She always turns away. I have not approached her, I once approached another family member & they ran away down the street in full flight!!

Perhaps one day I may have the courage, but you are absolutely correct in your assertions about the effect this has.

May I ask have you attempted similar? And if so could you share the results?

I'm sure they're are readers of the thread you would really appreciate it (me included)

Thanks for your post, perhaps the best & most constructive on this thread.

Sorry for the short post but I must be quick, I will be back checking on a daly basis, so anyone wishes to ask a question ore post a story / experience, please do so.


Thanks guys,

Marker

ps. I will keep you updated if I attempt anything & apologies for the spelling mistakes, I am typing superfast!!