The Palmarian Church - Anyone Familiar With These Guys??

I have passively heard of the group, but I really don't know anything about them.

Hi Speaker,

How did you hear of them?

Do you know someone who was involved, or just read about it on the net/newspapers etc?

Thanks

Marker

Hey, thanks to all for the stories, vids, etc. Great stuff. Cults like this just irritate me to no end. People buy into it and get brainwashed into submission. Lovely. Well, anyway, I took a gander over at this site:

www.rickross.com...

I didn't see the Palmarians or Carmelites, anything like that. Thought maybe someone would like to reach them and fill them in. Good site for stuff like this. It needs to be exposed for the fraud it is. Use any and all options to get the word out there. I haven't used that site too much - I am just assuming it's reliable but, again, any way to get the truth out there probably can't hurt.

Just a couple of cents for ya. Thanks again for sharing the stories. I like to hear stories of people who have gotten out. Saddening to hear of those left behind, or those who cannot even make up their own minds because they are so conditioned against free thought.

Thanks looney,

I havent seen that website before so thanks for the heads up!!

Still a lot of people who are still up to their necks in this Cult & so many more whose lives have been irreversably damaged


Marker

Hi Marker,
Sorry I haven't responded. I was out of town but I will go over to factnet and post a response to the video.
ihp07

Hey,

Thanks for that, hopefully that will bring more out - but I have a feeling they are already gone & its just a few right wingers left, its a shame!!


Marker

Hi Marker,

Hopefully some others who haven't posted in a while will check in and comment. It's so different than the usual religious spewing of who's right and who's wrong and who is the superior theologian. Maybe they just need to digest it a little bit because I'm guessing it's a little outside of their comfort zone.

You did an excellent job! Even if you don't get many comments, I'd be willing to bet a lot of them watch it and will maybe remember why the thread was started to begin with.

Take care!
ihp07

Hey,

Hopefully your right, I used to check it regularly and then stopped after these guys came along, maybe we can get it back on track.

I was only talking to another ex-palmarian the other day about how the thread has been hijacked; its a damn shame but these guys just argue religion all day if they could; exactly the type of behavior of Palmarians, which turns a lot of ex-palmarians off (Afterall, its their type of mindset we got away from in the first place!)

So hopefully the others who used to post will come back, lets see what pans out - I think I'll keep posting it if it gets lost in the usual bullsh**t so it will be there for them to find.

Also a bit of boyhood glee from antagonizing the right wingers!!

Marker

ps. see how Fr Luc posted in Spanish? first time he's done that I think, I wonder why? A quick copy & paste into google translate is all it took!!

pps. I also talked to an ex-Palmarian bishop who "got" the video & fully agreed with it in every way.

Hey,

I like the idea of antagonizing them too It's almost like it interupts their ranting. They need a seperate thread so they can just babble on endlessly....

Anyway, I think you should keep posting it and encourage people to watch it. To me it gives an answer to all the debating over whether palmar was "true" in the beginning and then later became corrupt. The video is simply TRUTH. Sometimes my mom will even say she thinks palmar was true in the beginning when freak show clemente was having his "visions", etc. I don't say anything because there's no point, the important thing being that she's out. I honestly think deep down she knows it was a farce from the get go. I'm sure it's just hard for her to look back at 19 years of her life that she dedicated to a lie.

Those manipulating assholes just piss me off!!

Ok, got that off my chest Again, I encourage you to keep posting the video, even if it's for the pure joy of antagonizing. Have you thought about making any more? Other than the documentary? Just a thought

Take care!
ihp07

Hey,

I just posted a bit of a rant at Sparklem, he really got me railed.

I might do up another one, I have the footage; spontaneity is what makes a good one - I was listening the Personal Jesus on my I-Pod when the idea for the montage came, within an hour I had it mapped out in my head - I feel that if i did another it would be REALLY angry, probably give Sparklem a heart attack!!

But check Factnet, Bert is backing me up - Sparklem has hijacked the thread & driven people away, I think its about time someone calls him up on it!

Marker

[edit on 24-10-2007 by marker3221]

Hey,

I can't access the factnet site right now so I can't read the latest. I can't believe that you came up with that video in an hour! You must be a true artist because I don't think the average person could come up with something like that on a whim. Were you always interested in film? Were cameras always allowed in the "church"?

What is sparklem's deal anyway? Does he have any connection to palmar at all? I think he needs another video. He's just asking for it

iho07

Hey,

The factnet seems to be down at the mo.

I came up with the concept & what I wanted the feel to be, some of the footage and how I would put it together in an hour - it then took me 2 evenings to source the footage and put it all together - things like that happen sometimes, they just fall into place.

Most of the time tho it doesn't work that way!! So its a rarity, I guess I just needed to vent.

But Sparklem has got my goat, he's using the site as a soap box to rant about how evil the world is and all about the Roman Catholic Church etc etc etc.

I called him up on it - he has NO connection to the Palmarian Church, he's just a blow in who sees an opportunity to take over and preach, totally off topic & if something like that would happen on this is site the moderators would either warn or ban him. This place is top notch for that, the Mods are sharp - this is a great site, a lot of nutty stuff but you have to filter through that.

People just gotta get up & tell him enough is enough, look back on the posters at the beginning, where are they gone? People who spout theology like Sparklem have driven them away, its like listening to a bunch of Palmarians ranting.

But in regards to the video, it just seemed to happen - I wish all my projects were like that! Then I would consider myself truly talented, a one off every now & again is all I can muster!

In regards to cameras, as far as I can remeber they were allowed, probably banned now but I'm sure there's lots out there - I know I used to see guys with camcorders all teh time. The footage I used I didn't shoot, I got a copy by chance from another ex-member - it features Clemente having a vision - can't keep a straight face looking at it!

I've always loved movies & respond to images much better than other forms although I am an avid reader; I kinda fell into Media by accident & found it really suited me.

Marker

ps. Cheers for backing me up - I don't want to be a lone voice__javascript:icon('')

[edit on 24-10-2007 by marker3221]

[edit on 24-10-2007 by marker3221]

Hey Marker,
Wow! Sparklem and totally confused are totally wacked! I must say, I admire your restraint. Your responses are well thought out and calm. Good job. You're absolutely right in everything you said over there. People quit writing in and talking about their own experiences or asking about family members, etc. when all of the preaching started. Did your family ever visit the states or were you ever aquainted with any of the families here? My mom went to palmar back in 1990 (or it may have been '91). That was her only trip there and she got really sick from food poisoning or something like that. (Or maybe it was overexposure to clemente).

As for your videos, I would have to say you are "truly talented". Stick with it. However that saying goes, "find something you love to do then find a way to make money doing it", it looks like you're on the right track.

Take care,
ihp07



[edit on 25-10-2007 by ihp07]

[edit on 25-10-2007 by ihp07]

Hey ihp07,

Thanks for the back-up - Sparklem thinks he's doing the right thing but is totally doing the opposite, he just can't see it - I reckon he's at last in his 60's judging by some previous comments of his. (I'm 26)

Totally Confused is another, with GO SPARKLEM! Its lilke he/she thinks its a football match.

I can see the irony in arguing about not arguing if you know what I mean!! But I feel I have to speak out to them, I'm not trying to be a spokesman, mouthpiece or anything else, its just no-one else is doing it - I have spoken to several ex-members who all agree that Factnet has gone to s**t because of these guys, so I gotta call them up on it, others will come eventually.


Thats that over with!

But I've been to the States although after leaving Palmar, I spent time in New Jersey (ironically where Sparklem is) I went to Palmar twice in the 90's first would have been '92/'93 I think, the second was '95.

By the 95 visit I totally could see it was a sham, I left soon after returning.

My family are heavily involved with the Irish priest and my house contained an altar where Palmarians came to pray, so even after leaving they were always in the house, you got used to it after a while but some of them were just nutballs.

Keep it up on Factnet - I get the feeling Sparklem is losing a bit of his edge and maybe seeing a bit of sense in what I am saying - I try my best to construct decent answers but sometimes its bloody difficult!!

Did you show your mother the video? I did another thats up on Youtube, its nowhere near as good, a 2 hour job, let me know what you think - I could have spent more time on it but it takes a long time to source footage to use.

Marker

Hey,

Good work, the parallels you draw are right on. I didn't show my mom the video. I thought about it, but decided the point of the video would get lost. If she were still involved, I think I would have been really compelled to show her, just to shake things up. Do you know what I mean? I don't know if it's something she's ready to see, and then see it for what it is. Does that make sense?

What did you think when clemente died? I thought for sure the whole thing would crumble because of the "prophecy" about him getting new eyes, etc.

More recently, my mom called the husband of the woman who originally got her involved. He was never palmarian. The woman was in the background telling my mom that the anti christ had been born and all this other crap. I started laughing when my mom was telling me this because I think this woman will still be palmarian when it no longer exists. She's another one who likes to hear herself talk and preach, etc. I'm sure when clemente died that it was this woman who gave my mom some explanation as to how the "prophecy" had indeed been fulfilled. Anyway, I was just curious about what your family was told or what they told you when it happened.

Take care,
ihp07

Well,

What happened on my end was this - my brother had gone ahead of my father to Palmar for Easter that year so my Father was at home when he got the phone call that Clemente had died.

My sister heard the conversation (one sided obviously) and my brother was openly questioning the prophecies, my Father the ever faithful, told him that it was a test from God & that they must stand firm, afterall God must sort the weak from the strong etc etc etc.

So there there was a concern there, but anymore than that I don't know.

But I do know the Palmarians explanation of the unfulfilled prophecies. Clemente died while saying mass, just keeled over and died on the spot, the Palmarians tried to say (because Clemente always said he would be crucified) that because he died while saying Mass, which is a re-creation of Christ dying on the Cross, he did in fact die as he said he would, on the cross, only it was metaphorical rather than actual.

So you see good Palmarians, he did not lie - God chose to test your faith through his mysterious ways (always a great fall back for stuff you can't explain)

They then went on to say regarding his prophecies of him going into battle with Moses, he did say this & this WILL happen, just not with Clemente, when Clemente said the Glory of the Olives he was not talking of himself, oh no, he was talking of another.

But a simple back read of his sermons clearly states in black & white that Clemente said it would be himself personally.

Now, the order came down for ALL Clemente's past sermons to be destroyed so a Palmarian doing a bit of research wouldn't uncover this massive hole in the story.

They all swallowed it. Because they WANTED it to be true & blind themsleves to the other alternative - that its all lies, lies & more lies.

And oh yes, The Anti-Christ is meant to be alive, his father is meant to be a ex-palmarian bishop & he will appear in public at the age of 30.

So they have plenty of time, I can remember being told about 13/14 years ago that the Anti-Mary, the mother of the Anti-Christ was then 16.

Where do they get this detailed info? Oh yes, God told Clemente all about it...

Excuse my sarcasm but there you go!!

But it is the beginning of the end & they know it, hence the communication lock down. How long till it ends is anyones guess, but its past it heyday that's for sure

Marker

Hey,

sorry for my rant above, all this that is happening on Factnet is dredging up emotions that have stayed buried for a while


Marker

Hey,

I'm really sorry. I hope I'm not stressing you out more on top of all of the factnet stuff with all of my questions. Feel free to tell me to shut up any time you feel the urge. I guess I'm still trying to figure it all out. The impact that it's had on my life isn't near what it's been on yours. I thank God I was old enough to say no f@#$ing way when asked to join. I went to "mass" with my mom quite a bit when I was in high school when priests would visit. After high school, I went once in a while then it got to where I would just drop her off. We lived near Chicago so "mass" would either be downtown or in the chapel up in Wisconsin.

When the priests would visit my parents house, my dad would go and stay at a hotel until they left. He couldn't stand it. He never said it, but I think he came pretty close to leaving my mom. If she was still in it today, I don't know if they would still be together.

I'm sincerely sorry for everything that you and your family are having to deal with. I commend you for having the courage to leave and put your focus on your talent. There are a lot of artists in my family (I'm a "wannabe" artist) and I believe it's an incredible outlet for emotional expression. From the little I've seen, you have the talent and I encourage you to keep creating!!

And as for your sarcasm, don't ever apologize for it. I love sarcasm. It's gotten me into a lot of trouble, but sometimes, it's just necessary.

Don't let the factnet "preachers" get under your skin too much. They remind me of 3 and 4 year olds who need constant attention by throwing tantrums. And I must say, your calm demeanor with them is exactly how to deal with that behavior! Well done!

Take care,
ihp07

Hey,

Cheers, the guys over there on Factnet are just like Palmarians & I have enough experience of them to know how to respond to their antics.

Totally Confused is double posting; unable to come up with any other response than Multis the Wise & The Great (sound like Terry Pratchet!) has stunned everyone into an abyss of silent metamorphous with his startlingly well documented post (Well, Documented!?? Gasp! Oh My God, I won't be able to type for months!!); and Sparklem seems to have stopped, for a while at least.

Columba has popped up, finally an ex-bishop who agrees with me!

But anyway it is a drain (not here, over there) draining to post against people like that, I've known lot of them in the past but its still draining.

I do think Columba is right in regards to Child abuse, it must be happening on an emotional & psychological level, god only knows what its like now - much worse than when I was there; when they leave they will be in pieces. - Something must be done about that.

Hopefully Factnet (if people can actually get up & take on the right wingers - get them to clam down on the rants) will be a place for them to go to, coz your guaranteed they'll do a google, might take a month or two after leaving, maybe more - but they will do it eventually. Hence I'd like to take t back so its there when they do, not pop in see a bunch of people talking like Palmarians & then leg it never to return!.

The Support Website is defunct (I know the guy who set it up; he has his own problems regarding the Cult) & Factnet seems to be the only place where they go.

But when will they post????

Someone (an ex-palmarian) told me last night that they are checking in but are afraid to post.

But man, don't worry about asking me questions, ask as many as you wish and I'll answer, its the Right Winger Fundamentalists that get to me!

Marker


ps. If anyone else reading this is interested in seeing the other forum we're talking about heres the link, just scroll down near the bottom & you'll see what we're talking about:

Factnet



[edit on 26-10-2007 by marker3221]

Hi,

You're right about the child abuse. Haven't people gone to the Spanish gov't in the past to no avail? I don't know how you would go about exposing something like that in BIG way to get the government's attention so that they would have to take action.

Why do you think people are afraid to post on factnet? Is it because they don't want to get attacked by the "preaching posters"? Hopefully people who really need to connect with others will keep checking in will start posting. It looks like sparlem and confused may be laying low for the time being. Hopefully, for a good long time.

Take care!
ihp07

Your multis comments made me laugh!

[edit on 26-10-2007 by ihp07]