Woman Dies after Airport Arrest

reply to post by MountainStar


Is her being drunk at the airport an assumption or a proven fact?

From what I saw in the video she was both copertive at times and un-copertive at times.. But it did not see kicking, biteing or punching. I saw a woman with stiff legs. Resistive but not combative.

IF she strangled herself she has clear conclusive black and blue chain bruises around her neck. The autopsy is inconclusive?! If the fat cop on her left sat on her then aphixiation would of happened because of pressure on the chest not a chain around her neck.

Also the Phonienix PD has a history of exessive force.

Personaly I don't care if she was running around slapping people randomly. Bad behavior does not merit death. And since when do police use an extra shackel to "bench" someone. SOP is to just cuff one hand to the bench directly. According to the officals she was cuffed behind her back. The only way to get those cuffs infront of you is to go under your legs as going over you head is not physicaly possible.

So how did she get the shackel wraped around her neck?

Answer:she didn't because it's not anatomicaly possible.

So, if she was running around slapping people, you think the police should walk over nicely and what, ask her to calm down. I would have gotten up and smacked the bitch and I would have been arrested if she hit my wife or kid, or is it OK for me to get up and take care of her? See, without law enforcement there is vigilante actions, right? it is called normal behaviour. She was not within the norm, she was in a highly agitated state where pepper spray or a taser might have been sufficient to take her down with no one on top of her, as suggested. Which is better? Circular arguement huh???

She was NOT TASED, NOT SPRAYED and was NOT ASSAULTED. Nothing shows that. There is no crime.

I know that there is police brutality but this is not the case here. This is money hiring a good pr lawyer for a lawsuit and nothing else to make sure their name is not smeared.

reply to post by shots


ok shots....you busted me on my 8 minute time fram....sorry but i can't keep up with all the friggin stories reporting different things.

i watched cnn this morning and they said between 6 and 8 minutes.
so now lets jump that figure to 15 minutes.

still don't add up...tell you what, lets bump it to 30 minutes for the next amended story and it still don't add up.

Originally posted by titorite
reply to post by MountainStar

 

^^^^well, this is just for arguments sake....it is not physically possible for most people but there are some people that CAN dislocate their shoulders and move them over their head, from the rear to the front...
not saying SHE can, just saying there are some that can.....even if she could and did though, she still could not have strangled herself

So how did she get the shackel wraped around her neck?

Answer:she didn't because it's not anatomicaly possible.

^^^^^i agree totally with the last part....even if she could dislocate and if she did dislocate, there is no way she could have strangled herself. just not happening


mod edit, to shorten lengthy quote

[edit on 5-10-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

reply to post by esdad71



I thought someone would take my words out of context. But let us not waste words on the hypothetical. FACT IS SHE WASN'T SLAPPING ANYBODY. The police did drop her in the video. She did not look like a rabid woman running around the place. That was not on the video thier for thier is no evidence of it. What was on the video was three cops on a small woman.

Does anyone have proof she was under the influence of anything or are we just saying that because she was on her way to a rehab...

And I have yet to have anyone explain to me how it is anatomicaly possible to work that cuff and shackel from behind your back to around your neck. AND NOBODY defending the murderer cops wants to discuss the lack of bruises around the neck.

Why not?

Originally posted by esdad71
So, if she was running around slapping people, you think the police should walk over nicely and what, ask her to calm down.

^^^^^i know you are not talking to me but i don't think the dispute is with what happened on the video.....the cops seemed to have treated her the correct way, in the film that we have seen.


...snip...

I know that there is police brutality but this is not the case here. This is money hiring a good pr lawyer for a lawsuit and nothing else to make sure their name is not smeared.

^^can't agree with your last part.

police negligence is my story and i am sticking to it.



mod edit, to shorten quote

[edit on 5-10-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by titorite
reply to post by esdad71

 

The police did drop her in the video. She did not look like a rabid woman running around the place. That was not on the video thier for thier is no evidence of it. What was on the video was three cops on a small woman.

Does anyone have proof she was under the influence of anything or are we just saying that because she was on her way to a rehab...

And I have yet to have anyone explain to me how it is anatomicaly possible to work that cuff and shackel from behind your back to around your neck. AND NOBODY defending the murderer cops wants to discuss the lack of bruises around the neck.

Why not?

i'm with you man...the police did drop her in the vid...they made contact and in seconds she was cuffed and back on her feet. no running around. no trying to hurt people or even trying to interfere with people.....in the video, people are walking by her like nothing...


of course the vid does not show proof that she was drunk. she was on her way to rehab so the assumptions and speculations come out..
she is at rock bottom and she is probably drunk..she had to have a few small bottles on the way right.
have you ever dealt with an alky? they can do this and that....uh, yeah, my dad used to beat my moms ass and then used to do it on me....FACT is though, in this vid, this woman is standing deamn near static...
drunk or not...she was no rabid.
so, yeah, people are just saying it cause she was on her way to rehab.

hell, some are even blaming her husband saying he should not have LET her go by herself.....blame hubs before blame the fuzz



while i am not saying and i don't think it happened, some people can dislocate and bring their arms in front of them....pretty wild to watch.

as far as the lack of bruises/marks.....yeah, i'm asking right along side you.
IF she strangled herself with a friggin chain, the examiner would have found out....

instead, they need to get a tox back so they can work up her drug/alky/discrediting profile....


edit* responded to titorite

[edit on 5-10-2007 by Boondock78]

My mom left today out of the very same airport. God help her and me and my family.
Please say a little prayer that she makes it to me safely.

She's my whole life. Thank you.

reply to post by Boondock78


No need to bump anything at all. What you should not do is get your shorts in a bundle over the exact time because I am sure it will vary, not a lot mind you but I am sure the officers did not stand there watching their watches to get the time exact.

Okay, now I read that they think she did do the "under the feet" maneuver, because her handcuffs were attached to a shackle which was attach to the bench. This shackle must've been a chain of unknown length.

So, imagine someone pulling their arms from underneath the feet and over to their front, but in doing so slides off of the bench downward, pulling her hands up, and pulling the shackle right across her throat and up against the bench seat as she choked to death whilst basicly sitting upright on the floor, with a shackle around her neck being "positionally asphixiated" from the chain and the bench. It's a long shot but it could happen. Cuffs alone, no. But Cuffs and a single chain? Maybe?

I still think she was in Alcohol Withdrawals which explains how frantic she got when she missed her flight. She left the gate area before cops arrived, and was seen in a "doubled over" position crying and such, then shouted the terrorist stuff when the cops came over to her. doubled over means something like thighs touching chest, head near your knees in a sitting position, the kind of position someone who feels like they'e losing their mind would be in. keep in mind she had a ticket for another flight, she was just gonna have to wait and be in life-threatening alcohol withdrawls which are the worst possible thing you could ever imagine (think of having the worst flu you ever had, on top of the worst trip on hallucinogen you ever had, now add some sort of powerful stimulant so you feel completely on edge, shakey, about to break out into a seizure, while she waits hours for the plane.

They test you upon admittance to rehab so she couldnt have just gone and bought a drink to hold her over if she was about to enter as soon as she got back. This is why the "she may have been drinking" crap is completely utterly bogus. They say that morning she was sober and utterly commited. So that means she had about one day, or part of a day, to get back home and into rehab before her withdrawls would kick in, requiring immediate medical supervision and care because they are FATAL.

She could've died from alcohol withdrawl alone! Still cuffed properly and all.

I can only imagine what it was like to be in her shoes in those last moments. What a hellish way to go .. you're about to change your life around, you're barely on the edge of sanity because you're in alcohol withdrawls, you're running a fever because of it and your blood pressure is causing you to feel like you may black out. Then you miss your plane home? Oh man .. in that state, her marbles would've been all kinds of messed up. Her reaction is totally normal for someone who would be in such a state. She would've likely flipped out, then realized she had to just tough it out and catch the next one. At which point she LEFT THE GATE AREA ON HER OWN, and went over to an area where she "doubled over" and seemed to be saying or yelling or crying. She only said she wasnt a terrorist when the police came upon her.

Then you get shackled to a chair, as your withdrawals get worse, REAL worse now because you're gonna miss the NEXT flight too. The longer you go through the withdrawls without being treated with precautionary medicines in a rehab center the worser it gets, and the greater the chances of a seizure or stroke, or brain damage. Then in her delusional state she probably was going to try to get her cuffs off to catch her flight, and maybe choked herself in the process. But I thnk she may have actually died from complications related to Alcohol withdrawl.

We'll see when the toxicology report comes in. That's one of my greatest fears, getting locked up while dependant on a medication that when abruptly stopped can cause dangerous withdrawls. It's just sick..

[edit on 10/5/2007 by runetang]

I think if she did manage to wrap the handcuffs around her neck she would have passed out and the noose would have loosened. Unless she hung herself with them or got herself crazy tangled up so much tha... lets face it folks the cuffs didn't kill her.

Personally i don't care about the airport video because i don't think screaming in an airport deserves a death sentence. This sound like we are being acclimated to accept this and well just to inform those that view reactions on boards i'm not buying it. I have heard now that the coroner is hard to reach and they with held several of her body parts from examination by somebody paid for by the fanily of the victim, including the womans NECK.

This is just the continuing rise of the police state. Incremental.

3 cops on a samll woman huh? Think a 'small woman' is not capable of damage? I had a gun and a butterfly knife pulled on 2 occassions by college looking 105lbser's who were harder to control than men I tossed from the bar i worked at. When attempt to handle a woman, you have to use enough force not to break anything but enough to subdue. that is what police are trained to do. It is not like tackling a 250 pound man.

However, never underestimate the strength of someone. Lets say she is not drunk, but as pissed as she was??? Adrenalin can do strange things to a body and people get real strong sometimes. I have seen women knock guys to ground when sober let alone drunk. You have no idea who you are dealing with.


If I was her father I would hold the husband accountable.


[edit on 5-10-2007 by esdad71]

Lets look at the actions of the medical examiner to see if that give us an indication of what occurred. First off the police do not know how she died, they simply found her dead in the cell and were most likely speculating that it was due to strangulation. However as they are not medical personnel and cannot tell exactly what happened, they can only go by the position the body was found in. So now the body is turned over to the examiner, who starts looking at toxicology issues. The body itself is turned over to the family, which would show bruising around the neck if the cause had been strangulation.

So right there we can see already that strangulation is most likely not the cause of death in this instance, but rather the guess of the officer who found her. What organs are still being looked at in this autopsy? The brain, heart, and I am going to guess the third is the liver, though I am only going off what someone else posted.

Why would they still be looking at those particular organs? Well for one thing these are all organs which can be affected by drug/alcohol use, and are the ones which would be effected in the instance that she died due to either withdraw, combining some drug and alcohol, alcohol poisoning, or stroke/heart attack secondary to her struggling. If there had been any misconduct by the police the evidence would be on the body, not in the internal organs.

As to the bench, there is nothing wrong with restraining a person to a bench in a cell. This is often done to keep the person from throwing themselves against the bars or walls in an attempt to get out or to say the police abused her. If you read the article you can see that the bench had an eye-bolt on it which is used exactly for that reason. There is nothing improper about restraining a person in a cell if they pose a danger to themselves, or the officers.


[edit on 10/5/2007 by defcon5]

Originally posted by defcon5

As to the bench, there is nothing wrong with restraining a person to a bench in a cell.

there is when shackles are involved.

esdad, your story of what a drunk woman 'could' be capable of is fantastic, but, as the vid shows, the cops got her down and cuffed pretty fast....so while she 'could' have knocked those guys out, she didn't.

Originally posted by Boondock78

Originally posted by defcon5

As to the bench, there is nothing wrong with restraining a person to a bench in a cell.

there is when shackles are involved.

Ummm…
How exactly do you expect them to attach the person to the bench without shackles?
Handcuffs are not long enough to attach someone to the bench, and not sufficient if they are struggling with their feet as well as their hands.

Originally posted by defcon5
Ummm…
How exactly do you expect them to attach the person to the bench without shackles?
Handcuffs are not long enough to attach someone to the bench, and not sufficient if they are struggling with their feet as well as their hands.

they do it exactly the same way i have been put in before and exactly the same way several of us have mentioned.

first, you ditch the shackles.

you cuff her behind her back, then, you attach those cuffs to the metal ring bolted to the wall with another set of cuffs. now, she has very limited movement on that bench...she can wiggle a bit but thats it.

cuffs are absolutely efficient when someone is struggling...you are putting her in a cell attached to a wall. if done properly, nothing gonna happen.

also, what about what i call chicken clips? people call them zip ties....police use them as cuffs you know....slap a set of those on her ankles and cuff her to the bench like i said.

next question....

It's sad that she died, sure.
However the woman was acting nuts, screaming, resisting arrest, and deserved to be placed under arrest, and subdued to shut her the hell up.
How can we sit here and watch people act insane, and then blame the police for trying to end the situation??

Having said that, I'm sure it's fairly obvious on the way she died, she she either 1. Strangled herself somehow on accident, most likely from once again acting nuts as hell, or 2. She was killed.

I just love the tone these threads always get;

If you're a Bush worshiping Republican, thats right, IT WAS AN ACCIDENT.

If you're a leftie anti Bush- she WAS MURDERED.

It never fails.

The most likely scenario here is that she was killed while being "controlled"

And i dont care who likes it or not. This aint the same world it was a few years ago.

And that's that.

It always has to be political- turn political and will never change.

The New World is harmless to the followers, while its very detrimental to those who are NOT BEHIND IT.

Originally posted by dgtempe
I just love the tone these threads always get;
If you're a Bush worshiping Republican, thats right, IT WAS AN ACCIDENT.
If you're a leftie anti Bush- she WAS MURDERED.
It never fails.

DG I don’t feel that is a fair assessment of the situation. I certainly never voted for the current administration, yet in this instance I don’t see where the police exceeded their normal procedure. As I stated earlier, some of these police abuse threads are highly slanted against the police, who are simply following procedures as laid out by the law. You have to look at them on a case-by-case instance to see if proper procedure was used, or if excessive force was applied. I don’t see where politics comes to play in making that decision one way or the other.

reply to post by dgtempe



Can you please quote your reference? I don't remember reading any post that was politically biased. Well, until...um YOURS!

I think you are the one who's trying to turn this thread into a political pariah.

-Sour