America Deserved 9/11...

Originally posted by Iblis
I missed the part where anyone on this thread called the United States 'superior', and so forth? Can you point this out?

Seems that you may be generalizing me with some others posts.

We host the most humane organizations in the world. The collective output, of 'charity' programs funded by both government and private groups is enormous.

So do you seriouly want to get into the realities of 'agencies' like USAid, World Bank, IMF etc?

Now, IIB, since you've clearly established yourself as some sort of anti-U.S. gremlin,

Because I can interpret things in light of the matter of fact that makes me anti-US? Or that i cna distinguish between the US and the US Imperial Establishment, that makes me anti-US? When you can distinguish between the 2 let me know, so that we're on the same page...

I'm not going to bother to attack your posts

Hey, avoid whatever truths I might have to offer here and attack me instead. Welcome to the subjective side of reality.

neither of us will give much on the others argument.

Don't compare me to yourself, if that's the case. I wont ignore whatever truths you can offer up in light of the dillema here...

[Primarily, South Africa.]

So which part of South Africa?

Japanese might not hate US, too badly. Perhaps we actuallt free'd them, unlike many other cases. I havent looked closely enough into how things transpired after we "pulled out". Being a former empire, like any other former imperialist society, it's hard to see how they could fully 'appreciate' the evils of another imperialist society. French and British anti-US protesters are hypocrite's if they don't also protest their own governments. But who's to say residents of US-Friendly places like Japan even themselves know the true horrors of American Imperialism?

Again -- It's the President they despise, not the country, nor its people.

So you're extrapolating the entire world off of those 3 states, and you're limited personal experiences in them?


[edit on 13-5-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

I'm sure an Australian man and a man from Zimbabwe are welcomed guests in different countries, too - HOW MINDBLOWING, HUH!?

First off - no one deserves an event like the attacks witnessed on 11th September 2001. Absolultely no one.

Secondly - I live in the greatest country in the world - that being the United Kingdom. Thats a matter of my personal perspective, and I'm sure that alot of people feel the same thing about their own countries.

The fundamental thing I think about the events of 9/11 is that the US didn't learn anything from it. In fact - quite the opposite occurred.

9/11 could have been a wake-up call to the average American, to see a place within the world that they have been largely sheltered from and yet one that their country has a massive impact on. What happened to the US on 9/11 has been happening - albeit in different extents and by different people - to the rest of the world for years. I often use the IRA analogy in my posts and its there for good reason. Imagine what would have happened if the US had several of its major city centres blown up over the past 30 years?

Instead 9/11 has reinforced the "Team America f*** ya!" (I've used this in context mods, its not an attempt at censor circumnavigation) mentality, and nothing has been learnt by alot of people, and instead of education in the real events of the world the Bush administration has played on paranoia, fear and suspicion to further its own ends.

You only have to read ATS at times to read this. There are some really loud and voiciferous posters who make out that the rest of the world outside the US is scum, not fit to wipe feet on. Some American posters stereotype, they accuse, they make bold proclamations and they do not listen - even if the people that are telling them something different are from the country they are slagging down.

And it seems that the number is growing. And when people outside the US read stuff like that, they are appalled, because thats the stuff that two World Wars were fought over to stop.

Or let me put it this way - some of the stuff I read on ATS daily about muslims and Arabs (but not exclusively those groups, just anyone who is "different") is what I would have expected to read had the internet existed in the run up to World War 2. Only then it would have been written by Nazi's about jewish people.

America did not deserve 9/11. It did blow alot of the sympathy though.


[edit on 13/0507/07 by neformore]

Ok, can everyone just stop arguing about which country is better than which.

America seems like a nice place. It seems that a lot of the patriots are a bunch of idiots, though. Seems as if a lot of them are on this forum, too.

I dont think its cool to just say what country is better. Im sure the UK is a nice place and Im sure Canada is cool as **** too. I mean **** if we wanted to talk about what country is better well be here talking for another few milleniums cuz I honestly think there isnt a certain "best" place on Earth because its young and all things come to and end. Most places are pretty much the same, some are rich in vegetation and some are rich in negative degrees. The things that happened on 9/11 are sinister and non the less diabolical, if the government really did in fact know this was going to happen and let it happen really makes me sick and its sad to see that people are calling the U.S a terrorist country. The sad thing is, is that our governments too smart and already knows about you and me realizing this, whats going to happen? Are we going to revolt against our government? Im not too quick to try finding out or asking. Say whatever you will about the American version of "illuminati," but the European one is just as worse, and if you guys wanna poke things about 9/11 and the American country you bet your s*** theres another thing coming. I predict the next attack on a huge scale will occur somewhere in Europe, how does that sound? Do you know why I think such a thing? Simply because the prime minister Tony Blair just recently resigned and hes more "illuminati" than our wonderful King Bush is. He wants more than just privacy cuz his agenda is just as bad.


Stay safe people, blessings.

[edit on 13-5-2007 by topsecretombomb]

Yeah, Europe. Doing hatred old school. You American's need to check yo'selves.

Finally, a post I can agree on - the post above mine.

And only erratic Americans to engage you all at this hour.
I've avoided this thread becuse it seems obvious to me. It was started by a misinterpretation of a poory-state point and wasn't meant by anybody. The people who died din't desrve that, the people who benefitted didn't deserve that, nor anybody whose gained or olost anything in the ensuing madness.

In fact hell, life doesn't have a lot to do with what's "deserved" anyway, does it? It just happens.

I would like to propose a theory on this subject matter and it may appear to come from outside the box.....

The Human Consciousness is shifting and the love affair with America stemming from nearly 100 years ago starting with Cinematic era is all but over. Think of it like a mob mentality when riots happens at a soccer match, the individuals are normal people for the most part but a total mob mentality is in effective control.

This mob control is the worlds way of saying the USA has lost its way and needs to correct if it wants to stay the most admired country in the World.

In a nutshell the US is seeing adverse response to its once most admired position and reacts agressively which compounds the situation.

The USA needs to fundamentally go back to its isolationist ways pre WW1 and 2 and stop interferring with Countries internal affairs...unless it wants to self destruct ?

No country deserves what was visited upon the US on 9/11. Period.

But the jingoistic patriotism of the OP exhibits the most pathetic delusion in tying the country to its government.

Let's recap some recent developments:

The 2000 election,
$2.3 trillion missing from the Pentagon budget reported by Rumsfeld on Sept. 10, 2001,
September 11, 2001,
the "Patriot" Act,
the Cheney energy task force,
the Enron shakedown of the State of California,
the Pentagon office of Special Ops,
Iraq,
the 2004 election,
Abu Ghraib & Gitmo,
Plamegate,
CIA secret renditions,
politicizing science,
NSA wiretaps,
Total Information Awareness,
Presidential signing statements & the unitary executive,
the FEMA national police force,
Katrina,
the UAE ports scandal,
$8 billion in $100 bills airlifted on pallets to Iraq that vanished without a trace,
the torture provisions of the Geneva Conventions trashed,
tasering students in university libraries and the rise of SWAT police,
Orwellian "free speech zones,"
suspension of habeus corpus,
hiding the vivisection of the Insurrection Act and posse comitatus in the budget bill (allowing for the federalizing of the state National Guards and easing the declaration of martial law),
the midterm elections, then the Surge,
the DA firings,
Constitutional scholars and Ted Kennedy placed on terrorist no-fly lists,
e-mailgate

...updates daily

To support such a gov't you have to be a fool or a fascist.

Well 9/11 didn't have to happen.

The Bush bad Karma continued into his term in office.
Nothing was getting done, Democrats took over one of the Houses
of Government.

He went on vacation.

By the end of 2001 he had something to do.

Why did he have such bad Karma and we seem to be stuck with it.

Was there a candidate with good Karma, or why does Bush have
bad Karma:
jfk jr 1 2 3 4
video.google.co.uk...
video.google.co.uk...
video.google.co.uk...
video.google.co.uk...

^#4 please for final conclusion, but the set up is worth it.

I almost think its true. Follow a stinker and .. well we had no choice, there
was an election.
It seems a lot to stretch but interesting.

gottago, excellent list, is it the bad Karma we are stuck with now,
oh the suffering... it must be the end times.







[edit on 5/13/2007 by TeslaandLyne]

"He had been programmed..."

I opened number 4, heard that, and closed it.

Originally posted by esdad71
PNAC is a think tank that in actuallity has many good ideas.

Technology is available to the highest bidder now so this is not the world of the 50's, but of the new millenium.

Aha! You've exposed yourself as a mainstream, corporate-controlled, intelligence infiltrator whose been assigned to monitor and disrupt the ATS.


I'm watching you now in your corporate cubicle. Mindless drone and slave to the system!

Originally posted by crgintx

Originally posted by esdad71
PNAC is a think tank that in actuallity has many good ideas.

Technology is available to the highest bidder now so this is not the world of the 50's, but of the new millenium.

Aha! You've exposed yourself as a mainstream, corporate-controlled, intelligence infiltrator whose been assigned to monitor and disrupt the ATS.

I'm watching you now in your corporate cubicle. Mindless drone and slave to the system!

Is that a joke, are you trying to look like an idiot?

[edit on 13-5-2007 by Johnmike]

Ofcourse America didn't deserve this,
You should consider it more like, You could have seen it coming.

It actually makes perfect sense...

If you're going to compete in all the fights
You have to expect to get punched in the face sometimes
No matter how strong you are

Originally posted by nick7261
I've lived in the U.S. all my life, and I've also traveled to many different countries in the world. IMO, there is no society, especially America, that deserves what happened on 9/11. What specifically is there about the American society that makes people think America deserved to have 3,000 citizens murdered on 9/11? The success and wealth of America? Is this how socialists think?

Eh, what? Socialists? Where did that come from?

You know what, lets just assume for one moment you government didn't have any involvement in 9/11 and it was AQ terrorists. They've released video's explaining in great detail why they attacked. It isn't because of your "freedoms" or that they hate "your way of life". It's because for the past 50 years the west and the US in particular has screwed over their part of the world, supported dictators and generally been arseholes.

If you want a reason why, then just listen to what the people who attacked you have said. Not what Bush says.

Originally posted by nick7261
Contrary to the what some people seem to believe, American society is one of the most tolerant societies on the planet. 99% of the people here are good-hearted, hard-working, honest people who welcome people from all over the world into their neighborhoods, homes, schools, and businesses.

Like everywhere else there are some bad people here, but overall, this is one of the most open-minded and accepting societies in the history of the planet. The people of America have fought to end slavery and oppression of minorities, and continue to fight for human rights not just in our own country, but all over the world.

Open minded and tolerant? Yeah, right.... If your all so open minded and tolerant, why is it that Europeans CONSTANTLY get harangued on here for being liberal socialists? By definition, that makes US open minded and tolerant and you less so.

Originally posted by nick7261
Is there another country on this planet that has GIVEN more money to foreign countries than America? Are there any other countries who have sacrificed more of their own people fighting on foreign soil to help ordinary people live in freedom?

Don't know about the money side of things, but on the amount of people sacrificed, yes there are several countries that have given more lives than the US. The UK and France immediately spring to mind. In WW1 and WW2, the UK lost many more than the US, both civilian and military, as did France.

Honestly, why are you getting so high and mighty over something that isn't even true?

Originally posted by nick7261
Just a reminder, people are risking their lives everyday to get INTO America, not out of it.

Indeed. But they also do the same for Europe, so it's not a phenomenon unique to you, just rather a symptom of the disparity in wealth across the globe.

Originally posted by nick7261
Just because a small group of corrupt and influential people may have temporarily hijacked the system does not mean that the American society, or the 3,000 people killed on 9/11, deserved it.

Temporarily? How long is "temporarily"? You political system was hijacked a long time ago, my friend...

But, I agree, those people didn't deserve it. It's one thing to see WHY they attacked, but another to actually agree with it.

Originally posted by nick7261
So maybe the ultimate conspiracy of 9/11 was to start a global propaganda campaign against the U.S., and to undermine the U.S.'s position of leadership in geopolitical affairs. Wouldn't this fit in with the globalists' agenda?

Dude, the US is managing to undermine itself quite well without any outside influence. The way it has behaved since 9/11 has sunk you countries reputation to unfathomable lows.

But, as other's have pointed out, this is not a critique against AMERICANS, but rather the US GOVERNMENT. However, it is still YOUR Government, so some responsibility should be born for letting it loose upon the rest of us.

Sorry I should not have posted here. Sorry.






[edit on 5/13/2007 by Blaine91555]

I have to agree. Those who claim we *deserve* some disaster are using warped thinking. No innocent, unarmed civilians *deserve* to be attacked and murdered by anyone. Claiming that they *deserve* it for some real or imagined sins of the country is foolish. Using that logic., we are justified in murdering civilians of any country that attacks or otherwise harms us.

The burden of guilt lies on those who commit the crimes, and those who ordered them to do it. It does not lie on unarmed and helpless civilians. Attacking civilians is wrong - no matter who does it (meaning, among other things, that the US commits war crimes when it kills civilians, too). Murdering civilians is simply wrong.

It is true that the behavior of the US has led to this. It is the almost inevitable outcome of our arrogance and abuse of power, but that doen't make it right or acceptable. It is still wrong.

If 9/11 is justifiable, then so are all the other murderous attacks on unarmed civilians everywhere.

Stu, let's not forget who drew the lines over there for all those countries. None other than the good old UK. All the countries in the Middle East were part of some European colonial empire during the last century. The UK controlled most of what is now the Middle East. They created Kuwait from Iraq in 1961 for the the Sunni's out of what was arguably part of southern Iraq. BP has always been a large player in the region since WW1 as well. Most of the regions oil goes to Europe and China not the US. The US gets the majority of its foreign oil from other sources. I would love to see all my military brethren back here in the US from all foreign countries to include the UK and other European nations. Instead of defending our nation, we're serving a global corporate hegemony whose bent on controlling and enslaving mankind. I would love to get the US out of the UN as well because it's even a bigger failure than the League of Nations ever was. Govt's are controlled by politicians and politicians largely serve the rich elites(name your oppressor, the royalty or whatever). Until the common people of the world learn that we don't need gov't's to actually trade and to carry out the rest of our necessary functions to live and thrive, major crime activities like war and taxation will continue to plague mankind.

Yes, I have traced your IP and you DNS server so I can find your ISP and your billing address. From there I will forward it to the NSA T.R.O.L.L .database (Total Record Online Left Liberals) and you will be audited next year and somehow take a huge strike on your credit rating.

Change your country by running for city commision or even the PTA. Make a difference at a lower level and eventually we can change it at the top.

Look no one in here is saying that the US deserved 911 trust me.
We are here to find out a little more about the truth and nothing else.
As the first guy who said the US society deserved 911 I am still 100% supporting that statement and I will try to make my point a little more clear.
I am referring to a mere concept.
Even if one day GW and Dick were to be find guilty for the atrocious attacks of 911 I could not even call for the capital punishment since it goes against my own beliefs (nothing religious here).
How could I ever go against myself in wanting innocents to die in such a tedious way?
Did I want a 911 for the American society?
No I did not.
Did it happen? Yes it did.

So after it happened I simply thought: well this is obviously due to the fact that the American society ,in general, has lost the views and fundamentals on which it was created a long time ago; people became individuals that made their own reality not based on their emotions but on media and political manipulation.
So the concept of deviated American society comes up.
So I hope that the event of 911 will wake up this dormant (the good part) society.
911 is the son of this society.
Its a son that was born and raised by a bad father and a good mother that had millions of innocent kids.
But the bad son that the family did not want was created anyway.
Now you can't go back in time, so the family needs to take care of the son .
The family was not careful enough to stop this son to become more and more evil.
Now the same father of this bad son went ahead and blamed everyone else except himself because he is a sadist and an evil man; he went to the neighbour and beat him up without any reasons, he knew that the son was his but blamed it to an old friend of his.
The father actually raised the neighbour, he gave him money and he harboured him until he needed him.

He does not care about his good sons he wants them to work for him so he can relax and enjoy his sadist life.


Now the father is beating up also his own family, the good part of the family.
But this part of the family needs to stand up against the bad father otherwise they are as guilty as he is, and the sons will grow to be as abusive as the father.
Problem right now is that no one seems to care, the family is happy in watching the father beating up the neighbours.
The father told the sons to hate them and they became blind with hatred; they are thirsty of blood.
The family deserved this bad kid because they ignored him they gave him power to grow with his deviated father.
They should have stopped the father once they realized he was impregnating the mother with bad semen or at least separate him from the bad father.
Will you stop this circle?
Will you stop the hatred and will you look at the facts?

So what are you going to teach to your kids its up to you.

Anyway the father is the Govt and the medias ,the good kids are the US population the bad kid is 911 and the neighbours are all of the countries the Us invaded or will invade because of 911 (I know I should not even explain it but just in case).
Even if you are not a 911 Believer you would still need to seat down and think about what is happening around the world and try to see where this hatred came from and who directly is benefiting from it.
The infos are out there you just need to look into facts.
So no, I did not want 911 for anyone and I hope that the sons of the US will try to prevent any other bad brothers that might be raised by the bad father.
I just hope it is not to late and that the kids did not grow enough to be as blind as the father.
I already wrote it but I will make it a little clearer.
The American society deserved 911 because it created it.
It’s the unwanted one but its there.
Everyday that the truth does not come out a new 911 is born.
Stop the circle and cut the balls of the father.
Till than yes you are creating 911 everyday.
Sorry if my sentences are not very clear I just write real fast and my native tong is obviously not the English one.
Cheers you all.