America Deserved 9/11...

Manipulation is by far worst than censorship.

.....i dont even know where to start. i honest to god dont.

no, you shouldnt cry more for a victim of 911 than you should for an iraqi child, ALL LIFE IS SACRED!

but to say that the us had it coming or that we desrved it...wow talk about out of touch with reality.

i find it interesting though...if tomorrow the govt announced we were pulling ALL our troops out of all of our overseas bases and that our navy was going to stay stationed off our own coasts and we used our military forces to close the borders of canada and mexico and said to the world "ya'll are on yer own, we just dont care anymore" if we pulled out of all of our treaties and out of the un and out of nato then decided we were going to ONLY trade with countries that traded EQUALLY with us...if we cut all foreign aid and called in all our debts to pay off the ones we had so no one could bitch we owed them money, what do you think the world reaction would be?

"oh but theres genocide in africa" sucks for them we'd say and we'd be even bigger villains than we are now.

the world is just full of hypocricy and they need someone to blame. you call us instigators? terrorists? i say we've been the worlds bloody scapegoat for far too long.

so, if youre not a US citizen and hate us. fine, ignore us and we'll try to ignore you. if you are a US citizen and hate us yet arent doing anything to change what you feel is wrong? fine, theres the door dont let it hit ya where the good lord split ya.

sorry to tell you but we're not responsible for other peoples twisted religious beliefs. yes, im saying it was terrorists until theres real PROOF and not a bunch of convoluted "evidence" that points to the US govt.

overall nick, GREAT thread and i hope everyone flags it.

know why this is such a great thread? becuase for all of our "freedoms" we're losing, i can still sit here and type out how much i think the govt IS screwing us over and yet i dont feel we "deserved" 911. yeah, some police state, i best go guard my door for when the MIB's come to get me.


i dont call names, even if it wasnt for the T&C of ATS, but in the back of my mind i keep hearing the term "tinfoil hat wearing whackjobs" over and over and i have to wonder if i should by stock in reynolds just in case...


EDIT: oh my sentences and punctuation went to hell on this one as thats how i type in rant mode. deal with it or dont, cant say i care

[edit on 12-5-2007 by Damocles]

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Why do most of the people of the world hate US?

They don't. You should get out more often. Everywhere I've gone in the world I've been welcomed and treated well by everybody. I've never once had anybody in any other country treat me poorly because I am an American.

What is the most core fundamental truth that can be said of the US, all throughout its history?

That ordinary people, being allowed to exercise their freedoms, have made the world a better place.

Why do we have 12-13 supercarriers, when no other country has more than one?

Because the U.S. economy is the most productive in the world. This allows the U.S. to allocate resources for such things as supercarriers.

Why are there 770 military bases in foreign countries? Why are the military personnel in 159 of 193 total world nations?

To protect U.S. and foreign interests abroad. Basically to help protect these countries from invasion.

Why is the US national debt almost 9 TRILLION $$$?

Because the U.S. government has borrowed money.

Why is there an unconstitutional income tax?

To pay for every federal program, like the relief that was sent to Kansas to help the victims of the tornadoes.


Seriously, if the hundreds of countries where the U.S. has a presence really objected, you think they'd send my tax money back to me?

Ever think that maybe the other governments who are whoring themselves to the U.S. might be part of the problem?

Originally posted by piacenza
You are refering to a previous post of mine.
Again I have nothing against the US or the ppl of the US.
But I have a quite good knowledge of the country and its citizens.
It is obvious that many years ago the land of the free stopped being a democatric country.
It was hijaked mainly by mainstream media with the support of the US Govt.
The new society was inoculated and driven by a new form of capitalism: comunist capitalism.
I have seen and lived in comunist country and let me tell you that the level of censorship I have seen in the US cannot be compared to any other country in the world exept for Cuba.
Its by far worst than censorship its pure evil manipulation.
You are living now in a fake democracy ,the worst of all, because the US citizen have no more value and they don't count anymore in the politics of the country.
The fake election that are held every 4 yrs are a pure joke.
We the people as the constitution of the US states are dead long time ago.
The Amercan society has without any reaction embraced a dark path.
The fake feeling of liberty that you have its the worst of all because its an illusion.
Lets not even go further discussing the fake morality.
From what I have observed Americans need badly to find a meaning to live but they are as far as I can see totally lost.
You follow religious leader that anywhere else in the world would be considered a joke.
You have the most illeterate president of the whole world another joke.
You follow a flag because you are a blind patriot.
But you don't care about the neighboor next door as your family .
Its a simple state of fact.
The whole world used to love america very very much.
My grandfather actually served in the US marine corp.
He was a prisoner of war in New Jersey and once released he joined the military because of the treatment he received from the US.
He was an officer but while captive he used to play tennis and they used to have a pool.
A little different than what they are doing right now.
My grandmother later on joined him in the US for another 5 yrs.
Ppl used to care but now what happened to the US?
They played under your nose the disintegration of your country over time.
My friend its not anymore WE THE PEOPLE ...but WE THE CORPORATION HAVE F...D YOU OVER Thankyou.
Now simple citizens and brave soldiers follow ideals that do not exist that are created at art by a very few people.
They are laughing at you guys all the way to the bank.
I noticed the US schools to be the worst I have ever seen in any of the country I have lived.
Its very hard to establish any kind of conversation with a US citizen that does not hold at least a Master degree.
History and Geography are by far the worst subject that are teached in the US.
do you know why?
Think about it because they should be the most important subject of all....
They started right from there from your school system they destroyed itmaking ppl stupid.
Yes the US has become a country of sheep with a few shepards.
Now where do we go from there?
Unfortunally the US model was exported in many countries and I see Europeans South Americans embracing your model more and more.
I am trully disgusted by medias all over the world.
They are ruining us...We the people.
The US right now I feel is in the worst shape of all.

piacenza, I don't disagree with almost everything above.

Now 911...
Well thats a different subject.
So did American society deserved 911...
Sure it did because you accepted it so you are guilty as the one who made it.´
By far the bravest are the one that pulled of 911 (your government) the citizens of the US what are they doing?
Nothing a few milion people wont change a thing .
Even if 60% of the ppl of the US would know about the truth you know what would happen?
Nothing.
Absolutley nada....

This is where you are wrong. If 60% of the American people knew the truth they would demand justice. If you want to help make a change you would fair much better if you didn't try to blame the American society for causing 9/11. That's just going to turn people off.

Instead, stick to the facts. That's just my suggestion. If you can prove the government was complicit in 9/11 (not just make wild accusations) people, especially Americans, will listen.

[edit on 12-5-2007 by nick7261]

Originally posted by Muaddib


BS, I was born and lived in Cuba and still have family there...

There is a lot more freedom of speech, and freedom in general in the U.S. than there would ever be in any communist country, including Cuba under a Communist dictatorship...


[edit on 12-5-2007 by Muaddib]

Muaddib,

Thanks for the kind words. I have friends who lived under communist regimes in Europe and they echo your sentiments. People who stepped on the toes of the "party" had their businesses taken from them overnight. It wasn't pretty.

'Oh, well, damn, it turns out we were just talking about a subject we absolutely know nothing about with completely false evidence; ie., censorship, so now I'll blame it on manipulation! Yeah! They'll never realize that I switched!'

It says something about the quality of a person's argument when they can neither clarify it, nor stay with that same argument.

We must keep in mind that these boards are full of intellectualist-elites who think, they know something special, something hidden, something unorthodox or taboo and that it is unquestionably right, as are they, and even if they can not refute a statement, it's because the truth is 'still hidden'.

'Deny Ignorance' goes both ways.

Why do most of the people of the world hate US?
They don't. The citizens of many countries are aggravated by the current Presidential-elect.
Please research before debating.

Why did the hijackers hate US?
Islamic-extremism being educated in some of the most illiterate, ungoverned zones in the world for the benefit, economically, politically, and perhaps spiritually - If they believe what they preach - Of the leaders.

Why were we attacked, even if it was a government inside job?
To disable or destroy the American economy -- As Mr. Bin Laden has echoed, our economy is our greatest weakness.

What is the most core fundamental truth that can be said of the US, all throughout its history?
That we are isolationists, and idealists.

Why do we have 12-13 supercarriers, when no other country has more than one?
Because we are the sole superpower in the world.

Why are there 770 military bases in foreign countries? Why are the military personnel in 159 of 193 total world nations?
Because we are directed to project a presence their for stability or political reasons. For instance: Why do we still have troops in the U.K.? In Germany? Because that's 37,000 extra men putting American dollars into their economy. Not because of any Imperialist ideals, or nonsense such as.

Why is there a "permanent war economy"?
American Policy is to constantly be ahead of other nations militarily. We have as much a 'constant war time economy' as many other nations. If you want to talk about corruption militarily, discuss Russia.

Why is the US national debt almost 9 TRILLION $$$?
We continue to borrow, especially to finance our newest conflict.

Why is there an unconstitutional income tax?
Another case of you spouting nonsense.

This is where you are wrong. If 60% of the American people knew the truth they would demand justice. If you want to help make a change you would fair much better if you didn't try to blame the American society for causing 9/11. That's just going to turn people off.

Instead, stick to the facts. That's just my suggestion. If you can prove the government was complicit in 9/11 (not just make wild accusations) people, especially Americans, will listen.

911 truth its not a wild accusation.
Its so blatant I don't really care about telling it to ppl anymore I tried from 2003 and just got sick of it.
People are blind they don't want to see so stay blind.
I can also care less about one World Government, Chip implant etc...etc...

I try to live in harmony and I don't go around and rantle about my ideas.
I do it only in this site because I love conspiracies.
I would not fight for civil liberties nor I would ever fight in the name of a country.
I love the US and I love the citizens of the US.
I majorly feel pitty for them in this time of danger.
Reading some of the posts above you can see how manipulative the media got in to them.
Thats what I dislike about the US and what puzzles me the most.
How could an almost entire nation give up their intelectual liberties for the false sense of Capital Freedom?
America was isolated a looong time ago by the media.
The US knows nothing on whats going on in the world.
Now I will get flammed and we should not go there but you support and are controlled by a terrorist country that its not your own....well you figure out which one.
They were smart enough to recognize the importance of the Media and the Bank system long ago.
Now you are paying to them the ultimate price.
You gave away your country and you don't even realize it.
American society was a gr8 model for the rest of the world.
Now I am not so sure anymore.
I have been trying to fight for you country in a sense of gratitude and how do I get perceived? Well read a few post above.
I got sick of a lost battle.
And yes its a lost battle.
May whoever is up there bless the US.
We don't hate you, the problem is that they tought you to love yourself to much. Thats a major problem.
From now on lets try to talk about real issues...
Anyway Paris Hilton is going to Jail.

piacenza, regardless of how i come across, i do respect your opinions, and i do appreciate what i think you are trying to say. i just disagree with many of your opinions and think you may be going about things the wrong way and thats why you may get some of the responses you do.

thats just an opinion so take it for what its worth. worth nothing take it as nothing.

911 truth its not a wild accusation.
Its so blatant I don't really care about telling it to ppl anymore I tried from 2003 and just got sick of it.
[I'm not going to try and prove a wild conspiracy theory, many of its basic pillars all-ready having been proved false anyway.]

People are blind they don't want to see so stay blind.
I can also care less about one World Government, Chip implant etc...etc...
[People are wrong because they don't believe what I do. More nonsense about more conspiracies.]

I try to live in harmony and I don't go around and rantle about my ideas.
I do it only in this site because I love conspiracies.
[Nothing wrong here.]

I would not fight for civil liberties nor I would ever fight in the name of a country.
I love the US and I love the citizens of the US.
I majorly feel pitty for them in this time of danger.
Reading some of the posts above you can see how manipulative the media got in to them.
['Because people don't believe what I do, it's clearly the job of an evil mind-controlling media! Yeah!]

Thats what I dislike about the US and what puzzles me the most.
How could an almost entire nation give up their intelectual liberties for the false sense of Capital Freedom?
[Explain? Specifically?]

America was isolated a looong time ago by the media.
[Considering we were isolationist until World War II, that's a bit to buy.]

The US knows nothing on whats going on in the world.
[Clearly. Since we give out more than two-thirds of international aid, and host the most humane organizations.]

What is this thread doing in 9/11 conspiracies instead of the War on Terrorism section?

What does personal opinion on the USA deserving the terror attacks of 9/11/01 or not have anything to do with a conspiracy?

Originally posted by Frith
What does personal opinion on the USA deserving the terror attacks of 9/11/01 or not have anything to do with a conspiracy?

I asked the simple question of shouldn't we deserve what we do to others? They all dodged it unless I missed something.

Originally posted by piacenza
... American society deserved 911...

Originally posted by piacenza
American society deserved it because it created it.

3000 innocent people deserve to die?

Sorry, but you're sick.

No nation "deserves it", regardless of what you think of that nation.

Thats inhuman, at best. Maniacal at worst. Seek therapy.

Originally posted by Iblis
We must keep in mind that these boards are full of intellectualist-elites who think, they know something special, something hidden, something unorthodox or taboo and that it is unquestionably right, as are they, and even if they can not refute a statement, it's because the truth is 'still hidden'.

You're fully invited to come and try to debate these related topics:
The FIRST Truth: American Imperialism
www.abovetopsecret.com...
"Freedom" = Imperialism: It's in the Language
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Congress, stooges of American Imperialism: "ongoing military operations thruout the world"
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Why does Bush appoint the Iran-Contra Scandaleers as top staff?
www.abovetopsecret.com...
America's death toll on the world: 27,000,000++
www.abovetopsecret.com...
You Be The Judge: Iran Fascist Superpower
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Why do most of the people of the world hate US?
They don't. The citizens of many countries are aggravated by the current Presidential-elect.

So where did you go? That's important. Otherwise, don't factor out issues like people being friendly because they assume you have money. Also don't forget that not everyone sees the total mess caused by the US, but many millions of people know first hand the effects of our shady undertakings, you know, the one sthey dont talk about on TV here. The issues that if they did talk about them all and in proper context there's no way you'd be able to hold onto the desperate view that the US hasn't become the worlds hegemonic imperialist state; everything we rebelled against in 1776 and fought against all those years.

Perhaps not surprisingly, two thirds of Americans believe that their country's foreign policy considers the interests of others. But this view is shared by only 38 per cent of Germans and 19 per cent of Canadians.
www.telegraph.co.uk.../opinion/2007/02/25/do2501.xml

the United States is building bases in four ex-Soviet republics in Central Asia and deploying 200 military advisers in Georgia. Last week, we learned NATO will be expanded to include three Baltic states. If Russian nationalists are going berserk, who can blame them? How would we react if Russian military advisers began turning up in Tijuana?
Why are we humiliating Russia when a first priority of U.S. foreign policy is to keep Russian atomic weapons out of the hands of terrorists and Mother Russia out of an embrace with China?
www.worldnetdaily.com...

Do you really need polls from places like the Middle East, China and so on? How about Africa? Start adding up those numbers. And then throw in Latin and South America after 40+ years of US state sponsered terrorism. Perhaps many of the individuals might not hate YOU, but perhaps they don't make the same mistake as you by considering the US establishment the same thing as the American People or the United States itself.

Why did the hijackers hate US?
Islamic-extremism being educated in some of the most illiterate, ungoverned zones in the world for the benefit, economically, politically, and perhaps spiritually - If they believe what they preach - Of the leaders.

And who do you thing they blame? Who do you think keeps all of the harsh regimes in power in fuels or initiates most of the conflicts there? You might kids yourself about US fooreign policy's role over there, if so likely because you don't seriously understand yet, but they all don't seem to ... especailly not those who really hate US.

Even in Osama's and Zawahiri's speeches they denounce Americna imperialism as their sole motives. Go read one or two.

The religion part just throws fuel on the fire, and if you can't accept it at that I can tell you about where radicalism really got started (hint: CIA).

Why were we attacked, even if it was a government inside job?
To disable or destroy the American economy -- As Mr. Bin Laden has echoed, our economy is our greatest weakness.

That's why we were attacked? That's it?? Had nothing to do with WHY they would want to attack US? No? Look at the targets; the symbols: "World Trade Center" and the Pentagon. The 2 main symbols of US power, and incase you didn't know economic imperialism is the primary vehicle of American Imperialism. Perhaps the reason you don't seem to understand my view is because economic & political 'warfare' are the main & desired goals of AI. When that fails the CIA have to move in for their tactics. When they fail we then hear about this years new war on the news... because they cant keep those too quiet.

What is the most core fundamental truth that can be said of the US, all throughout its history?
That we are isolationists, and idealists.

Ok, now I might start taking this as sarcasm. If you mean that, I'm totally blown away by you citing "deny ignorance goes both ways" and then making the most absurd statement I've seen in ages.

Why do we have 12-13 supercarriers, when no other country has more than one?
Because we are the sole superpower in the world.

What exactly is a "superpower"??

Why are there 770 military bases in foreign countries? Why are the military personnel in 159 of 193 total world nations?
Because we are directed to project a presence their for stability or political reasons. For instance: Why do we still have troops in the U.K.? In Germany? Because that's 37,000 extra men putting American dollars into their economy. Not because of any Imperialist ideals, or nonsense such as.

Why would the US have any interest in having bases and troops in all of those countries if we're "isolationists"?

Why is there a "permanent war economy"?
American Policy is to constantly be ahead of other nations militarily. We have as much a 'constant war time economy' as many other nations. If you want to talk about corruption militarily, discuss Russia.

Name another country besides Russia / UK that has a "foreign policy" that even remotely resembles that of the US...

Why is the US national debt almost 9 TRILLION $$$?
We continue to borrow, especially to finance our newest conflict.

I rest my case.

Take for example, what south of the Rio Grande is often called the other 9-11. September 11th, 1973, in which the United States was very heavily involved -- that's the bombing of the presidential palace, the military coup, the death of the president, the destruction of the leading democracy, the oldest democracy, in Latin America. The official death toll for that 9-11 is ­ the official death toll is over 3,000, but that's just the bodies they can actually count. The estimated toll is probably twice that. If you give that number in comparative terms, comparative population terms, that'd be the equivalent of about 50 to 100,000 people killed in the United States. We've just learned recently the detailed numbers of people tortured -- it's 30,000, that's 700,000 in the United States, thousands of cases of rapes and other abuse, and many people just lost, disappeared, who knows what happened to them.
www.informationclearinghouse.info...

That's only one tiny example of what the US establishment does to the world, the entire world.

9/11 should have been a wake-up call, but instead of GWB tell US the truth about why we were attacked he went immediately into imperialist propaganda mode and still lies about the hate behind the hijackers -and the world anti-US sentiment- to this day.

"Freedom" = Imperialism: It's in the Language

Sadly the victims of 9/11 died in vain, because America went into it's darkest era of militaristic imperialism in the aftermath, and now we're barreling off the tracks and taking the world with US.

You should stop spamming your threads here.

Either way, I agree with you about U.S. "imperialism." I don't think you can label it as explicit imperialism... Instead, I'd label it as general interventionism.

And contrary to semi-popular belief, the United States was never "isolationist." We were non-interventionist, meaning that we didn't meddle in the affairs of other countries, but we did take part in international affairs such as trade.

3000 people died in one day based on an ideology that was set a decade earlier. We were prepared but we were not ready. The idea was on the table but there was no way anyone could actually attack the US? It was false bravado in a world where the USS Cole had jsut been bombed along with a few embassies by the same people who commited 9/11.

The very fact that we can post to a site like this shows that our rights have not been stripped in this country. Trust me, if the gov't was monitoring these boards more than a few of you would have had a knock on the door.

The original poster makes a point that is very prevelant on these boards. It is one thing to have an alternative theory but it is another to condemn a nation and it's people. When you openly state that Bush and co planned 9/11, it scares me to think how you people can live in this country. If i felt that way, I would not live here. The world is a big place and it is almost 2010. Technology is available to the highest bidder, and most often it is terror organizations who spend alot of funds raised in the US. Money from the US pays for the weapons used to kill our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. That is what you should be angry about.

Remember 9/11and how expensive flags were on eBay on 9/20.

Its all jealousy I tell you. Poor sobs wish they could be American citizens but wont admit it. They wish they can be part of something bigger and better than what they are part of and the find excuses to wish evil upon us. Thats all. All we can do is pity them for their jealousy. But they admire the US deep down, not being able to be part of us and refusing to acknowledge their feelings they have turned to jealousy and hate. The most common excuses are "imperialism" etc.

There is no point even attempting to counter such people through debate. Logic and reason has left them long ago, otherwise they would have moved past their jealousy. Sadly, for them, this world is going to keep being influenced by American culture and our values and they can do nothing about it.

If they think they can do better than us, then I say you are free to try. If possible accomplish something greater than us instead of trying to tarnish what we have accomplished just to make yourself feel important.

Oh, yes there are also the quasi-sanctimonious; Americans who want to beleive in some great conspiracy because their lives are just so dull they cant bear facing the mundane mediocrity of their existence.

[edit on 12-5-2007 by IAF101]

Originally posted by Johnmike
You should stop spamming your threads here.

Well i could have used those points as arguments that would draw out and red herring teh thread. There everyone has a chance to attack those views, which strengthen my arguments.

So I guess we're supposed to post threads, and then the threads gets talk abotu for a week, and then bury away for eons, instead of actually use them to enrich other arguments and debates? Or should we fully repeat everythign in every related thread like the norm here in the 911 forum?

And contrary to semi-popular belief, the United States was never "isolationist." We were non-interventionist, meaning that we didn't meddle in the affairs of other countries, but we did take part in international affairs such as trade.

So which periods or years was this the doctrine that was set and actually followed? In our entire nations history?

[edit on 12-5-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]