America Deserved 9/11...

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One-liners need to stop, to all of you whom are using them in this thread (too many to list). I'm not going to issue any warns this time around, unless there's some attitude, but please keep in mind the one-liner rule.

Piacenza, your posting style is disruptive to the forum. As moderator of this subforum, I am asking you first nicely and publicly, to stop hitting enter after every line. Whether or not it is "a chat thing" does not matter. This is ATS, not IRC, and we have certain community standards to maintain in our posts here. Thank you in advance for your compliance.

What if there is 2 lines? Is it considered a 1 liner if it's one phrase but it's big enough to fill 2 lines? What if the purpose of the intended question requires only one line? Are we to invent other text to add to our intended contribution to the thread just cause we want to follow a rule?

Bad contribution to a conversation is when you add to your text for the only purpose of fitting a certain rule....

Your rule is, contradicting.

Originally posted by nick7261

But, as other's have pointed out, this is not a critique against AMERICANS, but rather the US GOVERNMENT. However, it is still YOUR Government, so some responsibility should be born for letting it loose upon the rest of us.

What specifically has the U.S. government done to make your life worse?

Why should they have done anything directly to me for me to care? Or is that the state of the world now where if something doesn;t DIRECTLY affect me, I shouldn't care about it?

I care about how unstable they have made the world. I care about the huge jump in fuel prices seen since 9/11. I care about alot of things that wouldn't have happened if the US and my own sycophantic Government hadn't gone charging around the world playing "Civilisation" with real people who get pissed off when their children die.

What makes it worse is that our own leaders do not even care how many innocents die because of their heavy-handedness and they then brush it off in the name of "Democracy" and "Liberty", neither of which we have brought to the ordinary Iraqi or Afghan, or worse yet, claim they will be judged by God, not the people, for their actions!

God!?

Did God vote you into power? Did God want you to be my leader? Who is this God? He's not my God, so how dare you even bring him into the discussion about what you have done in MY name.....

Our leader's need to be held to account by us, but whilst we all still blindly follow what they say and ignore the very reasons for why this "War" is being fought, then it will never end.

Originally posted by stumason

Why should they have done anything directly to me for me to care? Or is that the state of the world now where if something doesn;t DIRECTLY affect me, I shouldn't care about it?

I didn't ask you whether you cared or didn't care about the U.S. I asked a simple question -what SPECIFICALLY has the U.S. done that has made your life worse?

I care about how unstable they have made the world.

What has the U.S. done to make the world unstable? I would argue that the billions of dollars the U.S. pays directly to developing countries, along with the billions spent on defense of Europe and Asia, has made the world much more stable.

I care about the huge jump in fuel prices seen since 9/11.

The high jump in fuel prices is because of increased demand from mainly India and China. The supply of oil can't keep up with the the demand.

I care about alot of things that wouldn't have happened if the US and my own sycophantic Government hadn't gone charging around the world playing "Civilisation" with real people who get pissed off when their children die.

I'm just curious. Where you complaining about the Kurdish children dying when Saddam was killing them? Or the children in Kosovo who died when the Clinton administration orchestrated the NATO bombings there?

What makes it worse is that our own leaders do not even care how many innocents die because of their heavy-handedness and they then brush it off in the name of "Democracy" and "Liberty", neither of which we have brought to the ordinary Iraqi or Afghan,

There are freely elected governments in both Iraq and Afghanistan, something neither country had pre-9/11.

Our leader's need to be held to account by us, but whilst we all still blindly follow what they say and ignore the very reasons for why this "War" is being fought, then it will never end.

Who is at war?

Originally posted by nick7261
I didn't ask you whether you cared or didn't care about the U.S. I asked a simple question -what SPECIFICALLY has the U.S. done that has made your life worse?

Ok, its a really simple premise to understand, but I'll reiterate it.

Why should they have done something specific to ME and make MY life worse in order for ME to care? I didn't say wether I cared about the US or not. Seems you have some trouble with English.

Can I not have empathy towards other human beings who have suffered? I am lucky, I am in a country that is wealthy and a friend of the US. Other's are not.

Originally posted by nick7261
What has the U.S. done to make the world unstable? I would argue that the billions of dollars the U.S. pays directly to developing countries, along with the billions spent on defense of Europe and Asia, has made the world much more stable.

Dude, do you really need me to spell it out?

Iraq is a prime example of you making a whole region unstable. You went in on a lie, then changed your minds and said it was to free the Iraqi people. Now there are more terrorists in Iraq than there ever was, more people have died than under Saddam and you've alienated a good portion of the Muslim world.

There is the decades long interference in Central and Southern America. Well documented but going off topic.

The whole debacle in S.E Asia in the 60's and 70's. Didn't achieve a thing there apart from tens of thousands dead.

Originally posted by nick7261
The high jump in fuel prices is because of increased demand from mainly India and China. The supply of oil can't keep up with the the demand.

Partly. But also the fact you have rampaged around the ME. Every time there is even a sniff of a hiccup now in that region, Oil prices jump. See what you've done? Wasn't like that prior to 2003.

Originally posted by nick7261
I'm just curious. Where you complaining about the Kurdish children dying when Saddam was killing them? Or the children in Kosovo who died when the Clinton administration orchestrated the NATO bombings there?

Not really, as I was about 5 when Halabja got bombed. It was done using western weapons though.

Kosovo I sat on the fence about. We were right to go in, but the way the Albanians behaved in the first instance invited Serb retaliation. If you want a debate about Kosovo, then start another thread, as it could go on a while.

Originally posted by nick7261
There are freely elected governments in both Iraq and Afghanistan, something neither country had pre-9/11.

Right. But what use is fat, overpaid old men in a capital somewhere if they don't control the rest of the country? People are dying in the streets, which they were not doing pre-9/11...

Originally posted by nick7261
Who is at war?

Funny, I thought we were. That was, after all, what YOUR President banged on about for around 4 years non-stop.

Granted, he's stopped spouting this "War" rhetoric of late, so given the incredibly short attention span of most of the populace, your forgiven for not remembering .... After all, that's how the pull the wool over your eyes time and again. They rely on people forgetting things....

[edit on 14/5/07 by stumason]

Originally posted by selfless
What if there is 2 lines? Is it considered a 1 liner if it's one phrase but it's big enough to fill 2 lines?

Well, it largely depends on the context. For instance, some people had a question for the person they quoted, asking for more specifics in a rather polite or inquisitive format. We tend to overlook those, despite the fact that if your post requires only one line to say, it's probably not worth posting.

Others, on the other hand, contributed nothing of value to the conversation. With only one line of verbage, either to insult someone or say some meaningless random phrase.

Originally posted by selfless
What if the purpose of the intended question requires only one line? Are we to invent other text to add to our intended contribution to the thread just cause we want to follow a rule?

Not exactly, but perhaps to better think it out. For instance, you had at least two instances that were technically 1-liners, but one of which I didn't count as being such because it was a vehicle with which to forward the discussion.

Originally posted by selfless
Bad contribution to a conversation is when you add to your text for the only purpose of fitting a certain rule....

No worse than posting one line that contributes nothing of value to the conversation or seeks to degrade another member.

Originally posted by selfless
Your rule is, contradicting.

1) It's not my rule. It's the Amigos' rule. The complaint button is at your disposal if you feel the need to combat it. Be my guest. Perhaps the Amigos will consider your argument if it is well enough presented.

2) There's nothing contradicting about it, though there is some degree of subjective judgment at times.

Here are examples of what, within this forum, I would consider 1-Liners.

Originally posted by BrokenVisage
We didn't deserve it, but we had it coming.

Originally posted by selfless
Honestly, i don't know how the intentions of my message can be any clearer.

Originally posted by Johnmike
So you refuse to tell us what you're talking about. Okay.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
We all need Paxil.

Originally posted by piacenza
Manipulation is by far worst than censorship.

Originally posted by All Seeing Guy
I'm sure an Australian man and a man from Zimbabwe are welcomed guests in different countries, too - HOW MINDBLOWING, HUH!?

I hope this clarifies things a bit. Again, none of you are in trouble, yet. I'm just saying, I've got certain rules and standards to enforce, and I'll try to do my job as fairly as possible. But some of you will need to meet me half way.

Well, I can ignore the 'one liner' problem. I'm far too verbose.

Selfless, the idiots come in all forms and shapes. I would never refer to one seeking the truth as an idiot. I do find some who roil the waters just for the sake of waves, and are therefore an obstacle to learning, to be dolts.

But, for the sake of being civil, I seldom refer to people as idiots, unless they're elected to that position.

Dude, do you really need me to spell it out?

Iraq is a prime example of you making a whole region unstable.

The whole region is not unstable. What's going on in Iraq is minor in the big scheme of things.

Originally posted by nick7261
The high jump in fuel prices is because of increased demand from mainly India and China. The supply of oil can't keep up with the the demand.

Partly. But also the fact you have rampaged around the ME. Every time there is even a sniff of a hiccup now in that region, Oil prices jump. See what you've done? Wasn't like that prior to 2003.

You must watch too much mainstream media. The price of oil isn't going up based on hiccups in the ME, or because the U.S. has military forces in Iraq. The price of oil is determined almost entirely by OPEC's decision on how much oil to sell every month. OPEC has kept supplies constant while global demand has gone up. But of course those who live to demonize the U.S are going to blame the increased oil prices on the U.S.

There are freely elected governments in both Iraq and Afghanistan, something neither country had pre-9/11.


Right. But what use is fat, overpaid old men in a capital somewhere if they don't control the rest of the country? People are dying in the streets, which they were not doing pre-9/11...

Just out of curiosity, what would you like to see happen in Iraq now?

Originally posted by nick7261
The whole region is not unstable. What's going on in Iraq is minor in the big scheme of things.

What? It was an effective counter-weight to Iran. Now Iran has had free reign to do as it pleases. Saddam also kept a lid on Shia and Sunni rivalry, which is spilling out now across the region. Terrorism is increasing across the region, with Muslims from across every country rushing to Iraq to fight us.

Minor?

Jeebus.....

Originally posted by nick7261
You must watch too much mainstream media. The price of oil isn't going up based on hiccups in the ME, or because the U.S. has military forces in Iraq. The price of oil is determined almost entirely by OPEC's decision on how much oil to sell every month. OPEC has kept supplies constant while global demand has gone up. But of course those who live to demonize the U.S are going to blame the increased oil prices on the U.S.

I love that. "demonise the US".. My own country is in it up to our ears as well, so I'm not picking on the US.

I might add that OPEC actually increased production after Iraq was invaded to take up the slack (as Iraq production slowed to a trickle) and SA, Kuwait et al are running at almost full capacity. Not too mention no one in the west has built any new refineries, so it matters not how much oil OPEC sell. We can't refine the bloody stuff anyway.

Originally posted by nick7261
Just out of curiosity, what would you like to see happen in Iraq now?

Well, we haven't really got much of a choice now, either we stick it out and get bled to death or pack up and go home.. Might as well come home, seeing as we'll only be doing that anyway, but if we do it now, we might save some of our own boy's and girls in the process.

This is not something we're going to win, not with the sound, well thought out strategy the US put in place after the invasion:

"Plan? We don't need a plan...They'll love us and their freedoms...Daisies will grow and little bunnies will frollick by the streams, all will be well...."

Ideally, we shouldn't have gone near the place. All that bull about them being a threat and you all swallowed it. Millions didn't, but no one listened to us, even now, people insist the "WMD's" where shipped to Syria, or Iran, or Lapland.....

Originally posted by stumason

What? It was an effective counter-weight to Iran. Now Iran has had free reign to do as it pleases. Saddam also kept a lid on Shia and Sunni rivalry, which is spilling out now across the region. Terrorism is increasing across the region, with Muslims from across every country rushing to Iraq to fight us.

I personally think the tens of thousands of U.S. troops, bases, and aircraft in Afghanistan and Iraq are more of a counter-weight to Iran than Saddam.

I love that. "demonise the US".. My own country is in it up to our ears as well, so I'm not picking on the US.

I might add that OPEC actually increased production after Iraq was invaded to take up the slack (as Iraq production slowed to a trickle) and SA, Kuwait et al are running at almost full capacity. Not too mention no one in the west has built any new refineries, so it matters not how much oil OPEC sell. We can't refine the bloody stuff anyway.

So then why are oil prices going up? If supply is up, then it must be because demand has increased at a pace faster than supply. The point is that it has very little, if anything, to do with what's going on in Iraq.

Well, we haven't really got much of a choice now, either we stick it out and get bled to death or pack up and go home.. Might as well come home, seeing as we'll only be doing that anyway, but if we do it now, we might save some of our own boy's and girls in the process.

Just out of curiosity, do you know of any official stance the U.N. has taken on Iraq? If the U.S. and the U.K. were to pull out of Iraq, wouldn't the U.N. need to at least consider some sort of peace-keeping forces in Iraq?

Originally posted by piacenza
American society deserved it because it created it.
the story of the child makes me cry as much as the 1year old slaughtered in Iraq or should I cry a little more because he is from the US?
Why don't you mention the suffering the US as inflicted to other countries for a self inflicted wound.
You (as american society) created 911.
Whoever is blind created 911.
Whoever is silent created 911.
Whoever accepted it created 911.
The flag created 911.
The injected patriotism created 911.
Your SUV created 911.
Your confortable life created 911.




[edit on 12-5-2007 by piacenza]

Originally posted by piacenza
American society deserved it because it created it.
the story of the child makes me cry as much as the 1year old slaughtered in Iraq or should I cry a little more because he is from the US?
Why don't you mention the suffering the US as inflicted to other countries for a self inflicted wound.
You (as american society) created 911.
Whoever is blind created 911.
Whoever is silent created 911.
Whoever accepted it created 911.
The flag created 911.
The injected patriotism created 911.
Your SUV created 911.
Your confortable life created 911.




[edit on 12-5-2007 by piacenza]

[edit on 5/15/2007 by Brock Landers]

We are going to see these trends in our society continue until we wake up and realize that things are not as were told they are, and behind the scenes something much more sinister is going on, and the American people are being used and abused by the people in positions of power.

People who say "My lifes not so bad, whats wrong with our society?" What you are really saying is "I am editing out all the negativity and injustice that is just completely rampant in our society, I mean god for anyone who can see they would know that, and I edit it all out so I can live in my illusion of peace and happiness."

The fact that you choose not to see it does not erase the fact that the darkness still exists. In fact, this editing out is actually a product of your own inner darkness, your own shadow self, your inner child\ego, the part of you that refuses to see the light.

The only way to truly live in peace and happiness is to face the darkness and transmute it. You do that by speaking out against corruption and injustice, and death....the war on terror may seem good to you, but its not...its WAR for crying out loud.

The leaders of this planet are trying to hold the human race down because they know the time is now upon us where were going to start waking up to all the darkness thats around us. They know we are on the verge of a awakening, and they want to create the NWO to completely reverse it. They want complete control, but they will never get it, because the human race is too good, and were gonna beat these bastards.

Dont take my word on anything, you better go research the NWO. Go research Ascension. Go do it, dont sit on your ass letting everyone else think for you, go out and learn for yourself.




[edit on 15-5-2007 by LightWorker13]

Did 911 come from the MIC:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That must be the hub of the 911 mysteries, loose change and 911 truth
which goes back the Eisenhower.


America can't Deserved 9/11 if America does not know where it comes from.

Did Europe deserve the Nazi takeover of mind control and military investment
just to be the latest 'developing country' where radio and TV and other
advanced developments were being pursued.

WHY!?!?!? why would our own govt want to blow us up. They ddiint get anything much out of it unless im missing something. And yes i/we do other civil rights movements have occured but its also true the U.S had a much larger one. Thats why many sports events in Europe such as soccer games have overwhelming shows of racism and ignorance.

I've seen the Loose Change video. The real underlying message is like so many other tragic events in our history is that the contemporary gov't of the time did a piss poor job of investigating the crime and basically came up with a b-s story that sounded plausible. In this case, the 9-11 commission report had even more implausible conclusions than the Warren Commission did. Which is why some many knowledgeable folks raised the BS Flag as soon as it was published.

I've got a friend who used to be in the investment and banking business and as soon as I raised the follow the money question back in '02, he would clam up or try to change the subject. Want to know who was really behind the 9-11 attack, FOLLOW THE MONEY.

For everyone of you who state that America deserved 9/11, or that we brought it upon ourselves, remember that it is the attitude that you display that allows the war machine to turn. Deserved? 3000 innocent people on their way to work deserved that?

Don't try to compare it to Iraq or Lebanon, those are not comparable ot the US. If a US football team does not win the Super bowl, the president does not dispatch men in the night to abduct and kill them. Iraq did. The death that is occuring in the Middle East would be present if we did not invade Iraq. Iraq has become to the US what Afghanistan was to Russia, and it is bleeding us dry. We are fighting the same mujhadeen. The same battle hardened men who now fight side by side with sons.

If you feel that the US deserved 9/11 and at the same time show empathy for those who kill my countrymen, then in no such subtle words you are an enemy, right? I mean, you hate the US enough to say we deserved 9/11 is like stating that the Jews deserved the holocaust, or is that something else that you do not believe?

Esdad, I disagree with you about Iraq being the US's version of Russia's Afghanistan for the simple reason that most of the disparate tribesmen of Afghanistan(the Mujahadeen) are too busy fighting with each other to offer anything more than token support to Al Qaida. The current civil war in Iraq is between Sunni Arabs and Shi'ite Persians. If either group actually concentrated their attacks on solely US forces, they'd(the Islamists) be wiped out in a week. These fighters aren't the professional soldiers the US and other Western armies are trained to fight. I'm not saying they aren't brave or bad fighters, they aren't trained or equipped to fight head on with modern infantry troops. Most of the time they're content to take a few pot shots at US forces while concentrating most of their attacks on their traditional rival sects.

30-50 times as many Iraqis have been killed or wounded as US forces since '03, mostly at the hands of their fellow Muslims. The US isn't bombing markets and other public gathering places every day like the Islamic extremists are.

If the US military fought as they did in WW2 or Korea, any village that housed an enemy would have been razed to the ground. This isn't Afghanistan, this a repeat of Vietnam where the rules-of-engagement are being set by politicians in Washington.

I meant how the war with Afghanistan led to the destruction of hte military might of Russia, which is occuring in Iraq. It is another proxy war. Vietnam lasted almost 20 years, and it was never a war wither, jsut a conflict.

9-11 happened because good people didnt stopp it when they had the chance. Evil is evil. Kennedy had a chance, he was killed. Basicly what the American people face is the devil. 9-11 was part of a ritual to open a spirit gate and allow a spirit to enter a human. The symbolism of modern day organisations imagery that were behind 9-11 can be compared to ancient understandings of the pyrmids, mecca's design and rituals. The towers were built to mimic an ancient form by which they could summon energies from people and earth. imagine a hard disk in your computer, a virus would collect magnetic data and move it around, causing you to perhaps break your keyboard or throw your mouse. Same thing here. now we face the ultimate liar, the blasphemer to life, freedom and God. The new age ushered in by willing slaves of evil rhetoric from beyond the grave, from before the stars. Dont believe me?

www.youtube.com...
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