America Deserved 9/11...

piacenza, is there a reason that you press enter after every sentence? Are you try to annoy us? Or are you trying to feign stupidity and illiteracy?

That is probably the best post I have ever read from you "p". It is complacency that has set in. Before 9/11 the biggest stroy was a missing co-ed and a Washington politician. Then that morning happened and the world changed. No longer as America the land that could not be hurt. She bled. Our nation rose up and wanted revenge, not justice. We all fell into that. People were spending hundreds of dollars on flags and sending every bit they could for 9/11 relief. We came together as a country. It woke us up for 6 months, and then it went back to latte's and blogs.

We are now 6 years later and it is only a matter of time before it happens again. I do not want it, and neither does the government. If a hurricane can bring a nation to it's knees. a nuke in downtown Atlanta or Dallas is sure to put it over the edge.

Big Business is always and will always be here. They will always have politicins in the pocket as long as there are lobbyists. It is time to change the system and America had it's chance and choose HDTV over change.

Originally posted by Johnmike
"He had been programmed..."

I opened number 4, heard that, and closed it.

You missed the part:
"The father killed the father the son must kill the son"

The almost certainty that JJr had a pilot and the body came out
with the missing seat that took 15 hours of an Air Force cover
due to letting the plane sink in the first place.

That was one sweet package of OJ coincidence.

Mobs of people stopped Bushes car on the way to the White House
due to his election fraud. Every one liked JJr, no one liked Bush.

Simple eliminate the competition.

A few more dead in the WTC on 911 and in IRAQ.
Is it bad Karma due to the CIA killing Forestall, JFK and JJr?

No its bad people somewhere.

Originally posted by crgintx
Stu, let's not forget who drew the lines over there for all those countries. None other than the good old UK. All the countries in the Middle East were part of some European colonial empire during the last century. The UK controlled most of what is now the Middle East. They created Kuwait from Iraq in 1961 for the the Sunni's out of what was arguably part of southern Iraq. BP has always been a large player in the region since WW1 as well. Most of the regions oil goes to Europe and China not the US. The US gets the majority of its foreign oil from other sources. I would love to see all my military brethren back here in the US from all foreign countries to include the UK and other European nations. Instead of defending our nation, we're serving a global corporate hegemony whose bent on controlling and enslaving mankind. I would love to get the US out of the UN as well because it's even a bigger failure than the League of Nations ever was. Govt's are controlled by politicians and politicians largely serve the rich elites(name your oppressor, the royalty or whatever). Until the common people of the world learn that we don't need gov't's to actually trade and to carry out the rest of our necessary functions to live and thrive, major crime activities like war and taxation will continue to plague mankind.

Indeed and I never deny it.

In fact, I stipulated above that it was the West that mucked about in the ME causing the trouble. Don't forget, it was/is the CIA that propped/props up dictators around the world (Saddam, Saudi's, Iranian Shar), overthrows democratically elected governments (Mossadek in Iran) in favour of tyrants and funded Jihadist forces (in Afghanistan..the same ones we're fighting now) because they served a purpose for all of 5 minutes.

And as for your ascertain that you don't get any oil off the ME, what a load of crock. Sorry, but your plain wrong about that. In Jan and Feb 2007 the US imported some 4 million barrels of oil a day from SA, Iraq and Kuwait. Thats alot of oil, chum....

American short sightedness has caused the problems America reaps today, just because it gave you one up one those "evil" boogeymen Soviets.....

See, thats the difference between some of you Yanks and the rest of the world.

Whereas we can openly admit we have had a hand in buggering up the region, you'll still insist it has got nothing to do with you, your all innocent and they "hate your freedoms", whilst at the same time you continue to bomb the crap out of them and screw them over.....

Until you can face up to what your government has done instead of acting like none of it is your fault, then the cycle will continue.

[edit on 13/5/07 by stumason]

Originally posted by esdad71
Yes, I have traced your IP and you DNS server so I can find your ISP and your billing address. From there I will forward it to the NSA T.R.O.L.L .database (Total Record Online Left Liberals) and you will be audited next year and somehow take a huge strike on your credit rating.

Change your country by running for city commission or even the PTA. Make a difference at a lower level and eventually we can change it at the top.

I've fooled you again! I'm a ghost in the machine. Like all good revolutionaries, I strike from the shadows and are gone before your slow ponderous bureaucratic butt has even realized that you've been violated in your inner sanctum of dubious security.

Left Liberal!!! Read the signature line, buddy! Heinlein libertarian and Howardian Barbarian.

The US government is like the hair on the mole of the ass of America.

They are responsible for the attacks anyways, and their mission, especially the Bush Administration and its monarch controllers, is to make sure that the American people do not rise to the glory they are capable of.

Yes there are many good things about America, there are many good hearted people in America who believe false things like the government cares for us.

But there are also many in America, who couldnt give a toss less what happens in their country, theyre too oblivious to it, everythings been made so neat and comfortable for them in the box of programmed reality.

But, to see what America was 200 years ago....a nation full of independent, open minded, freedom-loving self sufficiant people with a pioneer spirit, and who wouldnt take no bull from their government. And to see what America has become...a bunch of self-sadistic, degenerate, entertainment fed, overweight, over worked, smiling depressants who dont know a thing about whats going on in their country, and who really controls it...would make the founding fathers roll over in their graves...

America didnt deserve 911, but it was good for America to serve as a wake up call that hey, you guys are not invulnerable. You guys do have enemies, but its not the Al Queda myth, you have enemies working within your country to destroy its sovereignty and destroy its reputation overseas.

America, once the land of the free, home of the brave, once the envy of the world....America is now seen as a country who does not respect human rights, or international law...and American tourists are going to pay for that. Its the famous sabotage from within.

Because the people who own your country have alliegances to forces that your not meant to know about. These people are servants of Vatican, they are servants of the British Royal Crown, and they will get their pat on the back by Her Heiness, theyve already got their knighthood from the Queen, I mean thats documented.

A tragedy had to be devised that would ruin the US reputation globally, and that is exactly what happened. They were already enemies inside, their job was to create foreign enemies...to give the illusion that America is beset by enemies, and must protect itself at all cost, even the cost of basic civil liberties.

No, those 3000 people that died on 911 didnt deserve to die. But, let it serve as a wake up call that you have enemies within your country who are looking to suppress and control you. They have you into their phony systems to make sure you do not express yourself, and to make sure the American people do not have a chance to rise to the great prominence you are capable of, but instead they make sure your energies are shut away into this phony system, working 9-5, 40 hours a week, go home eat watch tv, go to the bar or club, go home go to bed get up...and then we wonder why were not fulfilled and we wonder why we cant understand life...

America is a land full of great people, with great potential, but until the American people wake up from their slumber, and start dealing with the dark side of their own self, cuz we all have it, and until we start making changes within ourselves, America will not recover from the depths it has sunken into. Until we have the courage to say NO to government imposition, dictation, and demand that we control our destiny, we will not get anywhere.


[edit on 14-5-2007 by LightWorker13]

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by crgintx
Most of the region's oil goes to Europe and China not the US. The US gets the majority of its foreign oil from other sources. I would love to see all my military brethren back here in the US from all foreign countries to include the UK and other European nations. Instead of defending our nation, we're serving a global corporate hegemony whose bent on controlling and enslaving mankind.
Until the common people of the world learn that we don't need gov't's to actually trade and to carry out the rest of our necessary functions to live and thrive, major crime activities like war and taxation will continue to plague mankind.

Indeed and I never deny it.



[

And as for your ascertain that you don't get any oil off the ME, what a load of crock. Sorry, but your plain wrong about that. In Jan and Feb 2007 the US imported some 4 million barrels of oil a day from SA, Iraq and Kuwait. Thats alot of oil, chum....]

I never said we didn't get oil any oil from the region.


American short sightedness has caused the problems America reaps today, just because it gave you one up one those "evil" boogeymen Soviets.....

See, thats the difference between some of you Yanks and the rest of the world.

Whereas we can openly admit we have had a hand in buggering up the region, you'll still insist it has got nothing to do with you, your all innocent and they "hate your freedoms", whilst at the same time you continue to bomb the crap out of them and screw them over.....

Until you can face up to what your government has done instead of acting like none of it is your fault, then the cycle will continue.

[edit on 13/5/07 by stumason]

The US and its allies have been mucking up the region since WW2. The CIA and MI6 both had a hand in bringing down Mosedeq in Iran for Texaco and BP if I recall correctly. Mosedeq wanted to at least renegotiate the price per barrel that Iran received for the oil being extracted from their country. I can't remember if he was going to nationalize his country's oil production or not. He certainly wasn't the socialist that the West painted him by any means.

I don't have a gov't and there's a large and growing group of people in the USA who feel that the Federal govt hasn't responded to the majority will of the people of the US. As a retired military man, I certainly didn't see any military threat from any of the nations that I was stationed in overseas and mostly thought that we were providing a form of welfare to the communities that surrounded those bases.

Certain global corporations through political influence are using the military forces of the US to do their bidding. This isn't some vague conspiracy theory. It's an open fact. The good folks of the ME are sitting on some commodity(oil) that those global corporations want to exploit to maintain their perceived control of human civilization. That's my world view.

Anybody who believes that gov't's are actually in charge of things these days is being extremely naive.

Well they are in charge, in the sense, but they are allied with these corporations and special interest groups, in fact, they are all fronts for a even bigger power that is looking to supress and control.

Benito Mussolini is famous for saying that Fascism should be called Corporatism. He is famous for saying Fascism exists when the corporatations and government work together to further centralize power into their hands.

That is exactly what we are seeing in America, and the fascist symbols in the Halls of Congress are proof.

Originally posted by stumason

See, thats the difference between some of you Yanks and the rest of the world.

Whereas we can openly admit we have had a hand in buggering up the region, you'll still insist it has got nothing to do with you, your all innocent and they "hate your freedoms", whilst at the same time you continue to bomb the crap out of them and screw them over.....

[edit on 13/5/07 by stumason]

Amen to that.

Got it in a nutshell. I don't think I could have put it blunter, or better.

No-one is innocent in this world, but some are slightly more deluded than others.

Whether you deserved it or not is inconsequential now, but your response has been misguided and cumbersome. The conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan have most likely started in motion many plans to attack the U.S mainland directly. You have given these people exactly what they wanted, the oppertunity to take American lives, to learn their trades so they can direct on the American mainland, stirred up more support from generally moderate muslims, and pulled your economic and military supierority into question. Obviously i'm not blaming your average American person, but you have to admit there is still alot of support for these conflicts and the way they have been conducted.

Originally posted by Johnmike
piacenza, is there a reason that you press enter after every sentence? Are you try to annoy us? Or are you trying to feign stupidity and illiteracy?

Maybe to annoy you?
anyway
its a chat
thing
sorry about it

Everyone talks about Americans as if we're all part of the same patriotic, selfish, capitalist government. I love America as much as the next guy, but the people I feel the sorriest for are the troops serving in Iraq because they just wanted to serve their country and do the right thing, yet the government have once again exploited this countries masses and the troops only end up the capitalist agenda.

Americans were born into this, but that doesn't mean that we all swallow the s#it we're being spoon-fed by the corporate mainstream media. Sure, most of America will, but I just keep speaking my mind and trying to give others doubt about the administration's agenda and the path that America is heading.

After all, right now if someone were to organize a protest march in Washington, we might have 50,000 people interested in attending, but the number of people that would show up would be about 10% (5,000). The only thing that would accomplish is people being detained, photographed and logged for future surveillance. Anybody ever see what happened to the demonstrators at the Republican National Convention? We've have to open the American people's eyes before we can expect any sort of reform of our government. We've have to have a large presence and support, so that when we have the national guard locking everyone up more people will come out and support the demonstrators that are left. We can't have the average american watching the TV and saying, "serves them flag-burners right." We need them to look at what's happening on TV and say, "hey, they can't do that. they've got a right to free speech!"

We're not there yet. But, give us time. Keep on hating. Doesn't really effect us. You can say what you please about Americans. We're not blind. And if you think you're government doesn't want more power and control as well, you too are blind my friends. Just because your government hasn't made it as apparent as our has doesn't mean yours doesn't have the same intentions of more money and power.

You have a point, but you're wrong for pointing the blame at "capitalists." I think it's more authoritarians and imperialists that have done most of the damage. Socialists have done some as well.

Originally posted by Johnmike
You have a point, but you're wrong for pointing the blame at "capitalists." I think it's more authoritarians and imperialists that have done most of the damage. Socialists have done some as well.

Maybe I do point too much blame at capitalism, but I don't believe this is what capitalism was meant to be. Capitalism gives the notion that all americans can apsire to anything they work hard for. With the gap between the higher and lower classes widening more and more every year I believe our corporation, I mean country has drifted away from Capitaism toward Elitist Imperialism.

I tend to shy away from the word "elite" or its derivatives when speaking about the powerful, since it's very vague... I'd think a little more before calling the nation imperialist, as well. The United States DOES have a policy of intervention, which I disagree with, but calling it imperialism is misleading; we don't really hold onto the lands we acquire.

Now the middle class... I'm currently educating myself about economics and whatnot, although slowly, but I don't think a shrinking middle class is all the fault of capitalists. Inflation seems to be one problem, something that appears to be caused in part by the Federal Reserve system. Historically, it always was a "haves vs. have-nots", as the ownership system was always sort of communistic or feudal. Capitalism allows someone to "have" without owning the means of production, which is a very powerful thing.

Extreme off the tracks Capitolism can be a nasty thing, especially when it's hijacked by the elites to further their power and control.

The other flip side to the big C is the ideology beyond the mere economics system. It has a serious potential to 'program' people into being selfish and imperialistic. This doesn't mean get rid of it (well the corporate dogmatism that has replaced US C. maybe), but if kids were properly taught and warned about it's dangers the world could be a better place.

Originally posted by Johnmike
I tend to shy away from the word "elite" or its derivatives when speaking about the powerful, since it's very vague... I'd think a little more before calling the nation imperialist, as well. The United States DOES have a policy of intervention, which I disagree with, but calling it imperialism is misleading; we don't really hold onto the lands we acquire.

Now the middle class... I'm currently educating myself about economics and whatnot, although slowly, but I don't think a shrinking middle class is all the fault of capitalists. Inflation seems to be one problem, something that appears to be caused in part by the Federal Reserve system. Historically, it always was a "haves vs. have-nots", as the ownership system was always sort of communistic or feudal. Capitalism allows someone to "have" without owning the means of production, which is a very powerful thing.

I've thought about it and you're right, it's better labeled as facsist imperialism.

Imperialism is the policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations, countries, or colonies.

Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers individual and other societal interests inferior to the needs of the state, and seeks to forge a type of national unity, usually based on ethnic, religious, cultural, or racial attributes.

If there is better terminology for the direction that our country is headed, please let me know. Though we may not hold onto the land in the coutries that we initiate "intervention," I can think of no time in whcih America has ever reliquished it's economic influence. Whether directly or indirectly the actions were to beneift our government in most cases. If you know a time in which we went into a country to help it's people soley for the good of mankind, please let me know. Even after the intervention by the "UN" during the Serbian conflict NATO passed Resolution 1244 that placed Kosovo under transitional UN administration. And we didn't want to help out Mogadishu until the centralized government fell - after that, all of a sudden there were "starving children" that needed aide.

There's been much argument over who/what caused 9/11. Trying to find a place to put blame is well and good, because it makes it easier to spot the idiots/bad guys in the future. But it does little to help with the situation as it now stands. I have in other places asked for ideas and actions that could provide solutions. Solutions are what we need.

And solutions require more than placing blame. More than schoolyard rhetoric of who is "better". It needs ideas coupled with action. To blame leaders , rather than replacing the rules that allow them to flourish, is to be an enabler. If you give money to a drunk, knowing he's a drunk, and he buys a bottle, what right do you have to wail at the outcome? If we elect leaders and fail to institute the controls to keep them from letting their power corrupt, we aid them in whatever they do.

But, as other's have pointed out, this is not a critique against AMERICANS, but rather the US GOVERNMENT. However, it is still YOUR Government, so some responsibility should be born for letting it loose upon the rest of us.

What specifically has the U.S. government done to make your life worse?

Originally posted by NGC2736
There's been much argument over who/what caused 9/11. Trying to find a place to put blame is well and good, because it makes it easier to spot the idiots/bad guys in the future.

Wait so, are you talking about the idiots bad guys who did 911 or are you saying that people trying to find who did 911 are idiot bad guys?