The Disclosure Project is looking for a Professional Publicist

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by millerman
No, your logic is flawed here.
I have wondered myself if CSETI has better footage than that, like UFOs coming in much much closer, and if so, why they haven't posted it online.... however just because they haven't posted really convincing footage does NOT mean they are lying.

There's nothing wrong with my logic.

WRONG. Your logic IS flawed.

You are excluding the possibility that these CE-5s HAVE happened, but for whatever reason, convincing video footage of them isn't readily available.

Maybe the ETs don't want themselves filmed at close range for some reason, so they disable people's cameras.

Maybe NWO/MIC threatened to do something to Greer or CSETI if they post undeniable footage.

Maybe the ET crafts have a very strong EMP-type affect (as many people have testified) and they tend to damage or disable things like video cameras at close range.

Maybe CSETI does have convincing footage, but they have copyright/piracy concerns so they don't want to make it freely available on the internet.

There are any number of possible explanations for this, so again, the fact that they haven't posted undeniable footage on the Internet does NOT disprove their claims.

Greer claims to vector in UFOs. He can't prove it. He is making the big claim, not me. He has to prove that he can do it, if he wants to be taken seriously.

But, he doesn't seem to be experiencing any serious credibility problems, or having any trouble being taken seriously.... in fact he just keeps doing whatever he wants and doesn't seem to care what people like you think. He stated with 100% confidence that this major contact event with the participation of a G8 country will happen, and made no effort to prove that either.... clearly he feels no dire need to prove himself or his claims. So that indicates to me that he's not having any problem with being taken seriously, by the people who matter.... (governments, military, politicians, world leaders etc)

Richard Lalancette and you are claiming that the military have effective counter-measures against vectored UFOs. Neither of you can prove it.

TDP witnesses have testified that NWO/MIC have actively targetted ETs with EM weapon systems and space-based weapons and purposely downed their crafts. So if that's true, then logically the ETs would have concerns with making themselves too vulnerable, like with these mass public sightings that you keep demanding.

Originally posted by millerman
WRONG. Your logic IS flawed.

Wrong, your logic is flawed.

You are excluding the possibility that these CE-5s HAVE happened, but for whatever reason, convincing video footage of them isn't readily available.

Yes, I am excluding that because I don't believe that Greer can vector in UFOs. If he states it, then he needs to prove it, otherwise shut-up about it.

Maybe the ETs don't want themselves filmed at close range for some reason, so they disable people's cameras.

Which is more reason to have a mass-vectoring with hundreds of witnesses and lots of different types of cameras - movies, stills, digitals, film, pin-hole cameras, whatever!

Maybe NWO/MIC threatened to do something to Greer or CSETI if they post undeniable footage.

...and maybe they didn't. Prove that statement, otherwise it is fiction.

Maybe the ET crafts have a very strong EMP-type affect (as many people have testified) and they tend to damage or disable things like video cameras at close range.

...and maybe they don't. Hundreds of witnesses all with different types of cameras would help to stop that problem. The witnesses could be spread over a few kilometers, so that the cameras will not be isolated in one small group.

Maybe CSETI does have convincing footage, but they have copyright/piracy concerns so they don't want to make it freely available on the internet.

...and maybe they don't. If they have footage of vectored UFOs and they are not showing it, then they are ANTI-DISCLOSURE and PRO-PROFIT.

There are any number of possible explanations for this, so again, the fact that they haven't posted undeniable footage on the Internet does NOT disprove their claims.

I don't really care for how many POSSIBLE explanations there could be, as they're all speculative. The only explanation that fits the data is that Greer can not vector UFOs as he can not PROVE it.

TDP witnesses have testified that NWO/MIC have actively targetted ETs with EM weapon systems and space-based weapons and purposely downed their crafts. So if that's true, then logically the ETs would have concerns with making themselves too vulnerable, like with these mass public sightings that you keep demanding.

Right, IF THAT'S TRUE. Do you want to read that again: IF THAT'S TRUE. Again, prove that the military are so advanced that they can have planet-wide coverage against UFO incursion that will scare off any ETs from making themselves known to us. Those poor ETs, being able to travel vast distances, only to enter our orbit to be turned away by USA.mil beam weapons being fired at them. Right...

The USA.mil can't manage to accurately destroy enemy forces (friendly fire on British troops in Iraq). How the hell can they defend our entire upper-atmosphere airspace against UFOs??? You have got to be kidding me. Oh, that's right, you are. You stated it all without proof. You are kidding, it's not fact.

[edit on 17-4-2007 by tezzajw]

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by millerman
WRONG. Your logic IS flawed.

Wrong, your logic is flawed.

Nope. Logic 101: You can't PROVE a negative!

Trying to PROVE that Greer has never vectored UFOs, is like trying to prove "Mankind will never fly" or "Ghosts don't exist" or "telepathy is impossible".

You can say that you don't BELIEVE those things, which is fine, but that's not the same as PROVING they are impossible.

You are excluding the possibility that these CE-5s HAVE happened, but for whatever reason, convincing video footage of them isn't readily available.

Yes, I am excluding that because I don't believe that Greer can vector in UFOs. If he states it, then he needs to prove it, otherwise shut-up about it.

What absurd arrogance, making demands of Greer and telling him to shut up, in a forum he doesn't even read!

LMAO!

Clue #1: Greer doesn't read this forum and doesn't give a flying crap about any of your little demands! He's just going to keep doing whatever he wants anyway!

Maybe one day you'll finally get it, that you are completely wasting your time and energy in demanding that he prove himself.... because he doesn't even read your posts!


[edit on 17-4-2007 by millerman]

Originally posted by millerman


Nope. Logic 101: You can't PROVE a negative!

BZZZT! SORRY TO BUTT IN!
As stated, the rule "You can't prove a negative" is demonstrably false in a logical sense. Have you taken any courses in logic in college? I have.

External Source:
One might observe too, that the designation of statements as "negative" is arbitrary. The "negative" claim that "no swans are green" is equivalent to the "positive" claim that "all swans are non-green."

The claim of "You can’t prove a negative" is generally intended to argue that:

There ought to be no expectation that general laws can be proven, and the inability to prove a general rule does not disprove that rule.

Trying to PROVE that Greer has never vectored UFOs, is like trying to prove "Mankind will never fly" or "Ghosts don't exist" or "telepathy is impossible".

Um, dude. You are seriously grasping at straws here. No one should have to prove that Greer can OR can't vector in UFOs because HE is the one making the CLAIMS and making MONEY from the claims. LOGIC 101 (or better yet - common sense 101).
How about this: You claim to have a green chicken, so I ask if I can see your green chicken - and you say "No, I don't want to show it to anyone."
Fine, it is then logically asserted that there is no green chicken because of lack of evidence - until proven otherwise. In a logical sense, Greer can not vector in UFOs because there is no proof - HE has to come up with the proof, HE has to show the public the proof, and then people can say "Greer can vector in UFOs." But, as of last time I have checked - I don't see the proof, nor do you.

You are excluding the possibility that these CE-5s HAVE happened, but for whatever reason, convincing video footage of them isn't readily available.

Possibilities are not truth - in the world of logic. again, logic 101.

What absurd arrogance, making demands of Greer and telling him to shut up, in a forum he doesn't even read!

LMAO!

MM, that is not what he was saying at all - I think you took what he said out of context... You need to really stop with the LMAO stuff - especially when you take people out of context for what they were debating you on... I mean, if I was to take what you said and twist it and type LMAO! every other post - I am sure people would begin to wonder who was behind the screen because - its not a reliable argument, especially since you took/take people out of context. I can understand if English is a second language to you - but I don't think it is.

Originally posted by millerman
Trying to PROVE that Greer has never vectored UFOs, is like trying to prove "Mankind will never fly" or "Ghosts don't exist" or "telepathy is impossible".

I don't need to prove that Greer has never vectored in UFOs. Greer has made the claim that he can vector in UFOs. If he wishes to be taken seriously, then he needs to prove that claim. He hasn't proven it so far, so his claim can't be substantiated.

What absurd arrogance, making demands of Greer and telling him to shut up, in a forum he doesn't even read!

I'm not demanding Greer do anything. By all means, if he chooses not to prove his claim of vectoring UFOs, then he will continue to look foolish by making it. For the sake of his own credibility, if he makes a claim that he can vector in UFOs, he should prove it, if he wishes to be taken seriously.

Also, how do you know that Greer does not read this forum? Do you have proof of that? If so, please show me.

Just broke out on the morning news.....Greer is one of the top 10 most wealthy men in the world.......Not.

You need to find another argument than "big money making scheme", you sound like a broken record. People do have the right to make money, if they can.

To claim he is getting wealthy on this, makes you look like a jealous cry baby. Find other reasons and you might have an argument.

Is that what you are protecting?.....Big money making schemes?

You don't want to piss off Steven Greer:
web.tampabay.rr.com...

Originally posted by kroms33
Ok, ok - so you have out of pocket costs - and some guy (Vinko) is charging ...
agent? hmmm well as of right now I am a level 3 super duper disinfo agent.

I had written permission to use the material. As long as there was no filming of the material during my lecture. Straight from Debbie Foch.
You don't need to be in business with someone to ask such permission by the way, hence no affiliation. I consider my job like volunteering, for the good cause. Pretty much like any other type of volunteering out there...

I have enough background and experience to start talking about what I experienced. And not you, nor anyone else on this board will stop me from doing so. Two persons can tell me to stop is the Coordinator of CSETI/DP or Steven Greer himself.

I'm currently working a group to do CE-5 in my region too, and I will not be filming it. I don't care about showing the stuff to the sceptics and debunkers. What I care about is peacefull ET contacts, bi-lateral sharing and understanding.

Wait, something you can't probably not grasp... It's alright, you will understand someday...

[edit on 18-4-2007 by RichardLalancette]

[edit on 18-4-2007 by RichardLalancette]

Originally posted by tezzajw
Richard Lalancette and you are claiming that the military have effective counter-measures against vectored UFOs. Neither of you can prove it.

CSETI don't have proven footage of vectored UFOs, otherwise they would publish it worldwide and live wealthy lives from the royalties. If they don't have the footage, then it means that they are lying, as they make claims that they can't prove.

There is testimony that proves they have counter-measures yes.
Military witness, NASA video and more.

Regarding the reason why it never got spread out, see the response from millerman.
Hollywood and big media infiltrated and heavily corrupted simply put.


[edit on 18-4-2007 by RichardLalancette]

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by millerman
What absurd arrogance, making demands of Greer and telling him to shut up, in a forum he doesn't even read!

I'm not demanding Greer do anything. By all means, if he chooses not to prove his claim of vectoring UFOs, then he will continue to look foolish by making it. For the sake of his own credibility, if he makes a claim that he can vector in UFOs, he should prove it, if he wishes to be taken seriously.

We're arguing in circles now and I for one am getting tired of it. Greer evidently has no problem with being taken seriously.

It seems like what you are really saying is "Greer, and those who speak in support of him, need to prove Greer's claims if they wish to be taken seriously ON ATS. And they will be aggressively and continuously mocked, ridiculed and discredited until they do so."

Also, how do you know that Greer does not read this forum? Do you have proof of that? If so, please show me.

Okay, you got me there, Mr. Prove-It! Greer has never said "I DO NOT read abovetopsecret.com!" (Why would he?!?)

He HAS demonstrated a sort of general disdain for conspiracy theorists and internet critics and naysayers, which leads me to BELIEVE, that he does not read this site.... Also, I think he has much more important things to do with his time than hang around on here trying to defend himself from the Great Greerian Witch-Hunt....

[edit on 18-4-2007 by millerman]

Originally posted by RichardLalancette
There is testimony that proves they have counter-measures yes.
Military witness, NASA video and more.

Regarding the reason why it never got spread out, see the response from millerman.
Hollywood and big media infiltrated and heavily corrupted simply put.

Richard,

I suspect that CSETI does have more convincing video footage in their possession (since Greer talks about some of the early CE-5s being mass witnessed AND filmed in "Hidden Truth").

Are you able to get a final answer from CSETI as to why they haven't at least posted some high quality footage on Google video or Youtube? Tezzajw does have a point; doing so would immediately give them immense credibility, so it seems strange that they haven't done so yet....

Originally posted by millerman
We're arguing in circles now and I for one am getting tired of it. Greer evidently has no problem with being taken seriously.

You're arguing in circles - I'm sticking to the same point that I always have.

It seems like what you are really saying is "Greer, and those who speak in support of him, need to prove Greer's claims if they wish to be taken seriously ON ATS. And they will be aggressively and continuously mocked, ridiculed and discredited until they do so."

No, what I am stating is: "Greer needs to prove Greer's claims if he wishes to be taken seriously. He will be continually dismissed as a fraud and discredited until he does."

He HAS demonstrated a sort of general disdain for conspiracy theorists and internet critics and naysayers, which leads me to BELIEVE, that he does not read this site....

Of course he would view naysayers with disdain. The naysayers want him to prove what he claims, which he can't! Nothing would annoy him more than people requesting him to prove his wild claims.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by millerman
We're arguing in circles now and I for one am getting tired of it. Greer evidently has no problem with being taken seriously.

You're arguing in circles - I'm sticking to the same point that I always have.

And wasting your time and energy like you always do, since Greer doesn't even read your posts....

Why waste your time and energy stating the exact same point over and over again, dozens and dozens of times....? You don't think people got it the first time?

Originally posted by millerman
Why waste your time and energy stating the exact same point over and over again, dozens and dozens of times....? You don't think people got it the first time?

Obviously, you didn't get it the first time you read it, millerman. Otherwise I wouldn't have had to repeat it so many times. You finally had to ask Richard why CSETI have not released any video of their UFO vectoring to support their credibility.

Why would you assume that I am wasting my time and energy? Perhaps, to me, this is far from being a wasted effort. I hope that people don't follow Cult leaders, like Greer, without questioning the claims that he makes.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by millerman
Why waste your time and energy stating the exact same point over and over again, dozens and dozens of times....? You don't think people got it the first time?

Obviously, you didn't get it the first time you read it, millerman. Otherwise I wouldn't have had to repeat it so many times. You finally had to ask Richard why CSETI have not released any video of their UFO vectoring to support their credibility.

Yes, I did, but I have also stated some good reasons to believe that there IS something to CSETI and it isn't a giant 17-year lie/hoax.....

Originally posted by RichardLalancette

I'm currently working a group to do CE-5 in my region too, and I will not be filming it. I don't care about showing the stuff to the sceptics and debunkers. What I care about is peacefull ET contacts, bi-lateral sharing and understanding.

Oh, yeah... because you wouldn't want any type of disclosure now would you? Especially if you turn your little hobby into a money making career... oh wait, you just don't understand now do you - oh, perhaps someday you will.... how elitist.
So, you still haven't answered my questions about your old user name ban. Is it OK for you to post to ATS?

Originally posted by kroms33
So, you still haven't answered my questions about your old user name ban. Is it OK for you to post to ATS?

Is Richard Lalancette the old tock?

Interesting that he was banned and still wants to post here, if it is him.

Originally posted by millerman
Richard,

I suspect that CSETI does have more convincing video footage in their possession (since Greer talks about some of the early CE-5s being mass witnessed AND filmed in "Hidden Truth").

Are you able to get a final answer from CSETI as to why they haven't at least posted some high quality footage on Google video or Youtube? Tezzajw does have a point; doing so would immediately give them immense credibility, so it seems strange that they haven't done so yet....

Debbie is working on something, but she's flooded with work. Working on multiple fronts at once.
I wish they had footage of this 100foot spacecraft in England
But it was soaking wet weather and I wouldn't risk damaging expensive gear.

One thing we have to understand. The DP exist to shine the light on all the secrecy and expose the new technology. They were expecting a congress hearing. I don't think they care so much about skeptics. Takes too much energy, which should be spent working with the people that are already in line with the work they are trying to accomplish.

You have been doing great work on here Millerman, as I can read all the efforts you have put in your post. Until the end of 2007, I would suggest, not putting so much energy on fighting these guys here, but to assist in spreading the words in your town and in your state.

No matter what we try to accomplish, there is always someone trying to ridicule, crush or trash your work. So is the nature of humans. No matter how humble your work is...

Another thing, no matter how much footage you offer, from whatever source you have it. It will get either tagged as CGI or of too poor quality. You can't win, even if you have the best footage. Hear me on this, even if you had a close up of ETs landing and getting out of their ship, it would be hard to get people to believe it. So no matter what you show, they will still find ways to complain. What can you do?...

Originally posted by RichardLalancette

Originally posted by millerman
I wish they had footage of this 100foot spacecraft in England

But it was soaking wet weather and I wouldn't risk damaging expensive gear.

For crying out loud, Richard/Tock! Surely you are not telling us that people working towards 'disclosure' chose not to film a 100ft spacecraft because they didn't want to get a bit or rain on their camera? They decided not to shoot what could have been the best evidence ever of an alien presence on earth because it was raining?

Who are you trying to kid? Do you think anyone here will believe that?

Perhaps your associates will now start asking for more $$$ donations so that they can buy a waterproof camera - just in case it's raining again the next time a spacecraft appears!

You have fed us enough disinformative Greer hogwash in your previous incarnation, please don't start again!

I didn't realise that you were banned from ATS, I must say. Thought you'd just gone on to pastures 'greener' as you said in your final post as Tock - (shouldn't that have been pastures 'Greerer', by the way!)

What was the reason for your ATS banishment?





[edit on 19-4-2007 by torsion]

I would not waste money risking a good camera simply to post a video on ATS or youtube.

That would not a worldwide disclosure make.

It's up to the government. Just because you would be convinced, that wouldn't change the world.

It totally makes since to me to be spending disclosure efforts towards people that matter, that would make a difference.

You shouldn't be getting mad a RL for that, Torsion.