The Disclosure Project is looking for a Professional Publicist

Well, I don't know much about cameras and optics, but I don't buy it that camera flash could cause such a bright, perfect glow.... why isn't the object in the first image glowing like that?

Of course the flash will create that effect. Try experimenting yourself.

The first image was taken on a video camera and therefore no flash - just night vision mode.

Why aren't any of the other objects in the picture all lit up like that, only the "moth"?

The moth is close to the flash so gets maximum illumination. Everything else is out of range. You can see how the light fades the further up the tree you look.


and I see we have gone off topic - we're supposed to be discussing the new Disclosure publicist in this thread!

[edit on 21-4-2007 by torsion]

LOL very little of this thread has had to do with TDP's publicist, or lack thereof.....

Greer threads seem to have a habit of getting way off track and delving into this giant plethora of issues.... which isn't really a bad thing IMO!

Originally posted by millerman
So, what HAVE you done then? Have you done ANYTHING other than harass, mock and discredit other members?

What I have done for disclosure is not the topic of this thread, millerman.

Your refusal to answer my questions or refute my argument at all speaks volumes. The simple fact is that not you or any of the other Greer naysayers can adequately answer my questions, and your only proof that Greer is lying is "Well if Greer could vector UFOs he'd at least post a video on Google or Youtube". Sorry but that's not nearly adequate proof, not even close.

You don't have an argument, millerman. You make baseless claims about Greer that Greer can not prove - and neither can you.

Greer claims that he can vector in UFOs and levitate. None of which is true, as he can not prove it.

Keep trying to put the onus on me all you want, but again your refusal to answer my questions speaks volumes. You lose.

The onus is on you to prove the claims that you make. You haven't been able to do it, so your claims are bunk.

Since when do moths have a bright pinkish-white glow? What species of moth is THAT? PROVE that that is a moth!

I did prove that it was a moth. You choose not to believe it.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by millerman
So, what HAVE you done then? Have you done ANYTHING other than harass, mock and discredit other members?

What I have done for disclosure is not the topic of this thread, millerman.

Well guess what, neither is the question of whether or not Greer can vector in UFOs!

Obviously, you are evading the question, because you've done absolutely frig all besides harassing people who believe in things that can't be easily proven to others...

You don't have an argument, millerman. You make baseless claims about Greer that Greer can not prove - and neither can you.

And you keep claiming outright that Greer is a fraud, that he has been actively lying and hoaxing people for over 15 years, and you can't prove it either! The fact that he hasn't posted an undeniable video on Youtube, isn't sufficient proof that he is actively lying/hoaxing.

The FACT is that you can't prove your argument either....

Greer claims that he can vector in UFOs and levitate. None of which is true, as he can not prove it.

Wrong. Something does not have to be proven to the entire world on TV in order to be true.

Your argument is like saying that a yogi or buddhist monk or magician has to levitate in front of the whole world on TV in order for the concept of levitation to be true - which is nonsense of course.

And as I already pointed out in one of these threads, there HAVE been people who HAVE levitated on TV, like David Blaine and Criss Angel - and of course everyone just thinks it's an illusion or magic trick and they're not really levitating! So even if Greer levitated for the entire world on national TV, there would STILL be many people who would assume it's a hoax and wouldn't believe it.....

Same thing with footage of UFOs. Greer could post his absolute best footage (and I do believe he has footage in his possession that he hasn't put on the internet, for whatever reason), and there would STILL be all kinds of people who would say that it's hoaxed somehow, that it's done with CGI and special effects, etc....

Face it, there are some things in this life that just aren't easily proven to others, they have to be seen and experienced firsthand to be believed.... same thing with telepathy, same thing with remote viewing, same thing with astral projection....

Keep trying to put the onus on me all you want, but again your refusal to answer my questions speaks volumes. You lose.

The onus is on you to prove the claims that you make. You haven't been able to do it, so your claims are bunk.

The onus is on YOU to prove the claims that YOU make! You keep claiming Greer is a fraud, that he actively lies and hoaxes people - PROVE IT! You haven't been able to prove it, so YOUR claim is bunk!

Not only that, but you are STILL actively refusing to answer ANY of the questions I posed to you, so as far as I am concerned, you have completely and utterly lost this. If you had any real proof that Greer is a fraud, you would have rock solid refutations for EVERY SINGLE ONE of the questions I posed to you....

ANSWER EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY QUESTIONS tezzajw, or as far as I'm concerned, you lose this completely. I am not going to argue with you any further until you actually make an effort to answer my questions. Constantly re-posting "Greer can't prove it, Greer can't prove it" doesn't cut it.

Since when do moths have a bright pinkish-white glow? What species of moth is THAT? PROVE that that is a moth!

I did prove that it was a moth. You choose not to believe it.

No, you basically said "it looks just like a moth". You didn't PROVE anything! You didn't go and capture the glowy moth-like thing and have it analyzed by scientists and have the results put on national TV, so you have PROVED nothing!

Originally posted by millerman
And you keep claiming outright that Greer is a fraud

Yes, Greer is a fraud. He claims to levitate and vector in UFOs, but he supplies no proof. That's what frauds do, they offer claims without proving them and charge people money to go along for the ride. Even better, they then publish pictures on their websites that are clearly fake.

The FACT is that you can't prove your argument either....

Let me prove how Greer is a fraud:
Greer makes outlandish claims of levitation and vectoring UFOs. He doesn't prove it. He's a fraud.

Wrong. Something does not have to be proven to the entire world on TV in order to be true. Your argument is like saying that a yogi or buddhist monk or magician has to levitate in front of the whole world on TV in order for the concept of levitation to be true - which is nonsense of course.

Until proven otherwise, the concept of people levitating is outlandish. I don't believe Yogi, Buddhists or Greer can levitate. None have proven to have done so, otherwise it would be the biggest story in human history that people can defy gravity! Magicians levitate all of the time, sure - at least we know they are faking it and they don't admit to it being real. It's all illusion.

Same thing with footage of UFOs. Greer could post his absolute best footage (and I do believe he has footage in his possession that he hasn't put on the internet, for whatever reason), and there would STILL be all kinds of people who would say that it's hoaxed somehow, that it's done with CGI and special effects, etc....

Ummmm... Greer just released his best pictures of aliens and UFOs and most of them were blurred moths and insects. He's shown us his best and they are all fake.

Face it, there are some things in this life that just aren't easily proven to others, they have to be seen and experienced firsthand to be believed.... same thing with telepathy, same thing with remote viewing, same thing with astral projection....

No, it's easy to prove that Greer can levitate - he just has to do it.

The onus is on YOU to prove the claims that YOU make! You keep claiming Greer is a fraud, that he actively lies and hoaxes people - PROVE IT! You haven't been able to prove it, so YOUR claim is bunk!

I don't need to prove that Greer is a fraud. He does so himself by making claims that he can't substantiate.

No, you basically said "it looks just like a moth". You didn't PROVE anything! You didn't go and capture the glowy moth-like thing and have it analyzed by scientists and have the results put on national TV, so you have PROVED nothing!

Oh, please, millerman - now you're scraping the barrel of credibility. Go to the Greer picture thread and look at torsion's analysis of the moth picture. It is complete proof that the alien/UFO/energy being takes the form of a moth, complete with head, wings, body, antenna and arse of a moth.

[edit on 21-4-2007 by tezzajw]

tezzajw

Again you refuse to even try to answer my valid, well-reasoned, intelligent questions, so you lose. I'm not debating this with you any more until you make an effort to actually answer my questions and refute my argument.

Until then, YOU LOSE. Your refusal to even try to answer my questions speaks for itself. Maybe one of the other Greer naysayers will have to step in and try to answer my questions and refute my argument, because YOU CAN'T DO IT.

Ummmm... Greer just released his best pictures of aliens and UFOs and most of them were blurred moths and insects. He's shown us his best and they are all fake.

The page doesn't say anything about those being their "best" pictures, it just says "Selected pictures", and it also says "keep checking back for updates!", meaning they are planning on posting more!

No, you basically said "it looks just like a moth". You didn't PROVE anything! You didn't go and capture the glowy moth-like thing and have it analyzed by scientists and have the results put on national TV, so you have PROVED nothing!

Oh, please, millerman - now you're scraping the barrel of credibility. Go to the Greer picture thread and look at torsion's analysis of the moth picture. It is complete proof that the alien/UFO/energy being takes the form of a moth, complete with head, wings, body, antenna and arse of a moth.

I was making a little joke and trying to make a point - the point being, it's very difficult to "PROVE" ANYTHING on here. All there is is various levels of evidence - web pages, articles, pictures, videos. But ALL of that can be brushed aside as disinformation; ALL pictures and video footage can be brushed off, "Oh that's obviously faked, that's a hoax".

People can't really "prove" ANYTHING on here to rigorous scientific standards. The only way to PROVE things to scientific standards, is to have things analyzed by scientists!

So your constant demands for PROOF are pretty much pointless. All people can provide is EVIDENCE, which you have already decided for yourself that you won't believe....

I could maybe provide you with evidence of David Blaine levitating on TV, but you won't want to believe it, you'll just go "oh that's obviously an illusion, a trick of the camera....."

ALL this constant talk about PROOF PROOF PROOF is a complete waste of time and energy..... because there is ONLY evidence!

Originally posted by millerman
The page doesn't say anything about those being their "best" pictures, it just says "Selected pictures", and it also says "keep checking back for updates!", meaning they are planning on posting more!

Well, what a way to interest people, huh? First off, show them your worst, faked pictures to keep them coming back for more. Wow, Greer has it all figured out.

the point being, it's very difficult to "PROVE" ANYTHING on here. All there is is various levels of evidence - web pages, articles, pictures, videos. But ALL of that can be brushed aside as disinformation; ALL pictures and video footage can be brushed off, "Oh that's obviously faked, that's a hoax". People can't really "prove" ANYTHING on here to rigorous scientific standards. The only way to PROVE things to scientific standards, is to have things analyzed by scientists!

I'm not stating that all pictures are fakes. I'm stating that the ones that Greer released on his website are fake.

Torsion, proved with scientific standards that the moth picture is a fake. He used intelligent, scientific methods to determine where the head, wings, antenna, legs, body and the arse of the moth are, in the picture.

So your constant demands for PROOF are pretty much pointless. All people can provide is EVIDENCE, which you have already decided for yourself that you won't believe....

Greer has not supplied evidence or proof that he can vector in UFOs or levitate. His claims are pointless, not my demands for proof.

I could maybe provide you with evidence of David Blaine levitating on TV, but you won't want to believe it, you'll just go "oh that's obviously an illusion, a trick of the camera....."

Ok, show me the link. I won't be able to view it straight away though.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Torsion, proved with scientific standards that the moth picture is a fake. He used intelligent, scientific methods to determine where the head, wings, antenna, legs, body and the arse of the moth are, in the picture.

LMAO!!!

He went into Photoshop or whatever and drew some arrows and wrote "moth head, moth arse" etc, and you call that "scientific standards"??

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!

I do agree that the shape of it resembles a moth or butterfly, but come on!! What is "scientific" about doing some editing in Photoshop?

His picture is nothing even close to "scientific proof"....

So your constant demands for PROOF are pretty much pointless. All people can provide is EVIDENCE, which you have already decided for yourself that you won't believe....

Greer has not supplied evidence or proof that he can vector in UFOs or levitate. His claims are pointless, not my demands for proof.

The evidence that Greer can vector UFOs is the simple fact that CSETI has been around for 16, 17 years or so and seems to have hundreds if not thousands of satisfied "customers". We have Richard here who claims to have attended a training and experienced contact. Plus there are other articles on the web from CSETI supporters who claim to have experienced contact. And a while ago, there was a link posted to an old CSETI video where they go through the CE-5 protocol and a UFO does show up, albeit not at very close range.

If they were lying/hoaxing as you say, there would be hoardes of angry customers demanding their $$$ back and burying CSETI with lawsuits. There are none, that I have seen.

In the NPC conference footage Greer states that he would lose his license to practice medicine if he were found to be perpetrating a hoax on the public. Greer evidently still has his license to practice medicine.

Greer started CSETI in 1990. The NPC conference didn't happen until 2001. Greer claims it was the work he was doing with CSETI that attracted the attention of all these insiders and whistleblowers and led to the 2001 NPC conference. If he was lying about vectoring UFOs for the 11 years from 1990 to 2001, then what the hell was he doing leading the NPC conference and championing the battle for Disclosure? Why did the 20-something witnesses and whistleblowers believe in him enough to risk their LIVES and stand up to testify in front of the world, if he had been hoaxing the public and lying about vectoring UFOs for 11 years?

If Greer lies about vectoring UFOs in order to make $$$ from gullible people as you say, then why isn't CSETI aggressively marketed to people on the Internet? Indeed they seem to rely more on positive word-of-mouth to attract trainees, than any kind of marketing or advertising.... Why doesn't Greer aggressively promote/sell CSETI trainings in any of his writings, lectures, radio interviews etc, if all he wants is to make $$$ from gullible people as you say?

I have just provided evidence and reasons to believe that there is something legit to CSETI, and so far you have demonstrated absolutely ZERO ability to refute any of this evidence or argumentation. You lose, unless you actually make an effort to refute my evidence and argument.

Again, maybe one of the other Greer naysayers will have to step in and help you, because YOU CAN'T REFUTE MY ARGUMENT.

I could maybe provide you with evidence of David Blaine levitating on TV, but you won't want to believe it, you'll just go "oh that's obviously an illusion, a trick of the camera....."

Ok, show me the link. I won't be able to view it straight away though.

I don't actually have a link, I saw him doing it on TV last year sometime. Maybe you can find the footage if you do some searching, I don't know....

I also heard that Criss Angel walked on water on TV, which is close enough to levitating.

Originally posted by millerman
I do agree that the shape of it resembles a moth or butterfly, but come on!! What is "scientific" about doing some editing in Photoshop?
His picture is nothing even close to "scientific proof"....

Torsion's method of proof to outline the shape of the moth is far more scientific than the claim made by Greer that the picture of the moth is some type of UFO/alien energy.

The evidence that Greer can vector UFOs is the simple fact that CSETI has been around for 16, 17 years or so and seems to have hundreds if not thousands of satisfied "customers".

That's not evidence.

We have Richard here who claims to have attended a training and experienced contact. Plus there are other articles on the web from CSETI supporters who claim to have experienced contact. And a while ago, there was a link posted to an old CSETI video where they go through the CE-5 protocol and a UFO does show up, albeit not at very close range.

Richard has been banned here (the former tock). He has no credibility. A UFO showed up did it? Was it undeniable proof or just another light in the sky?

If Greer lies about vectoring UFOs in order to make $$$ from gullible people as you say, then why isn't CSETI aggressively marketed to people on the Internet?

It is marketed on the internet. They have a website that clearly has their donation policy outlined.

I have just provided evidence and reasons to believe that there is something legit to CSETI, and so far you have demonstrated absolutely ZERO ability to refute any of this evidence or argumentation. You lose, unless you actually make an effort to refute my evidence and argument.

No, you have not provided any evidence. Nothing to prove that Greer can levitate or vector in UFOs.

I don't actually have a link, I saw him doing it on TV last year sometime. Maybe you can find the footage if you do some searching, I don't know....

I ask you to show me a link that proves a person can levitate, but you don't have it... right...

I also heard that Criss Angel walked on water on TV, which is close enough to levitating.

Right, of course he did... and in his former life he was also a mythical person called "Jesus". No link? No proof? Garbage claims, millerman.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Torsion's method of proof to outline the shape of the moth is far more scientific than the claim made by Greer that the picture of the moth is some type of UFO/alien energy.

It still isn't scientific proof, not even close.

The evidence that Greer can vector UFOs is the simple fact that CSETI has been around for 16, 17 years or so and seems to have hundreds if not thousands of satisfied "customers".

That's not evidence.

It most certainly is. They have been around for about 17 years and train around 50 people a year, at least, so they have had at LEAST 850 customers.

If Greer lies about vectoring UFOs as you say, then why aren't those 850 people ALL over the net going, "Don't listen to anything Greer says! I spent a week with him and we didn't see a single UFO!!"? Why isn't CSETI being buried with lawsuits?

A UFO showed up did it? Was it undeniable proof or just another light in the sky?

A round glowing shape that blinked in out of nowhere and hovered there, defying gravity, and moved about for a few minutes and left again. It was not at close range so you couldn't make out much detail, I'll give you that....

I don't have the link handy but you should be able to find it with a little searching.....

If Greer lies about vectoring UFOs in order to make $$$ from gullible people as you say, then why isn't CSETI aggressively marketed to people on the Internet?

It is marketed on the internet. They have a website that clearly has their donation policy outlined.

Yes they have a web presence, but it is not aggressively advertised, marketed or promoted, as far as I can tell. As I said, they seem to rely more on positive word-of-mouth than on marketing/advertising. Which would imply that they are doing something legit that spreads by positive word-of-mouth.

No, you have not provided any evidence. Nothing to prove that Greer can levitate or vector in UFOs.

I have provided evidence, points of research and argumentation that there is at least something legit to CSETI and it isn't a giant 17-year lie/hoax as you would claim.

I don't actually have a link, I saw him doing it on TV last year sometime. Maybe you can find the footage if you do some searching, I don't know....

I ask you to show me a link that proves a person can levitate, but you don't have it... right...

I told you, I saw David Blaine, levitating, ON A TV SHOW some time last year. I don't know if it's anywhere on the internet or not; you'll have to do your own searching. At least I gave you a place to start!

I also heard that Criss Angel walked on water on TV, which is close enough to levitating.

Right, of course he did... and in his former life he was also a mythical person called "Jesus". No link? No proof? Garbage claims, millerman.

Not at all. Criss Angel is a magician that does TV shows. I heard that on one of these shows he walked on water (or "created the illusion" of walking on water).

I don't have a link, because it was A TV SHOW.

You'll have to do your own searching if you're interested in that. Maybe David Blaine and Criss Angel have web presences, I don't know......

Originally posted by millerman
It still isn't scientific proof, not even close.

When a picture looks like a moth and is shown to be a moth, then it is a moth.

If Greer lies about vectoring UFOs as you say, then why aren't those 850 people ALL over the net going, "Don't listen to anything Greer says! I spent a week with him and we didn't see a single UFO!!"? Why isn't CSETI being buried with lawsuits?

If Greer is telling the truth about vectoring UFOs, then why doesn't he prove it instead of charging $$$ to sit by his campfires and take pictures of moths?

A round glowing shape that blinked in out of nowhere and hovered there, defying gravity, and moved about for a few minutes and left again. It was not at close range so you couldn't make out much detail, I'll give you that....

Every now and again when I go outside, I see blinking lights that hover, move and disappear. To me, they are not UFOs, they are lights in the sky. They could be anything. So for all of Greer's vectoring, the most that you can come up with is that a distant light moved around in the sky... right... that's a solid case to prove a point. Keep trying...

I don't have the link handy but you should be able to find it with a little searching.....

That's not surprising. You make a claim but don't have the link handy.

I have provided evidence, points of research and argumentation that there is at least something legit to CSETI and it isn't a giant 17-year lie/hoax as you would claim.

No, millerman, you haven't. All that you have is the word of Richard/tock and a distant light in the sky that showed no details. Not to mention the pictures of the moths that Greer posted for us all to see.

I told you, I saw David Blaine, levitating, ON A TV SHOW some time last year. I don't know if it's anywhere on the internet or not; you'll have to do your own searching. At least I gave you a place to start!

You made the claim, you provide the evidence and proof.

Not at all. Criss Angel is a magician that does TV shows. I heard that on one of these shows he walked on water (or "created the illusion" of walking on water).
I don't have a link, because it was A TV SHOW.
You'll have to do your own searching if you're interested in that. Maybe David Blaine and Criss Angel have web presences, I don't know......

Do you even fully understand what you type, millerman? You make the claim that this Angel person walked on water, which is nearly the same as levitating (according to you). Then you inform me that he is a MAGICIAN! Far out, millerman, do you even realise how silly that is??? Of course magicians can walk on water. I've watched David Copperfield defy all laws of reality with his illusions! But, they are ILLUSIONS! They are not reality. Magicians ADMIT to performing clever illusions!

Dude, you have serious credibility issues when you try to use a magician performing a water-walking stunt, as somehow relating to proof that people can levitate.

Please, keep replying... this is hilarious.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by millerman
It still isn't scientific proof, not even close.

When a picture looks like a moth and is shown to be a moth, then it is a moth.

No, that is not scientific proof. That's an opinion.

If Greer lies about vectoring UFOs as you say, then why aren't those 850 people ALL over the net going, "Don't listen to anything Greer says! I spent a week with him and we didn't see a single UFO!!"? Why isn't CSETI being buried with lawsuits?

If Greer is telling the truth about vectoring UFOs, then why doesn't he prove it instead of charging $$$ to sit by his campfires and take pictures of moths?

I don't speak for Greer or CSETI so I don't know. Greer does not seem to care about proving himself which indicates to me that he has huge credibility from positive word-of-mouth. So it could simply be an oversight on his part that he has sort of neglected the Internet community.

Or it could be that he saves the absolute best most convincing footage for when he is briefing world leaders and governments and things like that. Which kind of makes sense, because anything you put on the Internet gets edited, pirated, redistributed etc. So perhaps he is merely protecting his best evidence from being tampered with - as he has had people betray him and steal evidence and things like that before.....

Again, maybe Richard or someone can get a more definitive answer from Greer or CSETI about this.

Anyway, as I pointed out, hundreds or thousands of apparently satisfied customers DOES constitute evidence that CSETI is legit. I have never seen evidence of angry customers saying that they DIDN'T experience contact, demanding their $$$ back, suing CSETI etc...... if you can find such evidence, then by all means please present it!

A round glowing shape that blinked in out of nowhere and hovered there, defying gravity, and moved about for a few minutes and left again. It was not at close range so you couldn't make out much detail, I'll give you that....

Every now and again when I go outside, I see blinking lights that hover, move and disappear. To me, they are not UFOs, they are lights in the sky. They could be anything. So for all of Greer's vectoring, the most that you can come up with is that a distant light moved around in the sky...

No, that's only one piece of evidence out of many that I presented.

I don't have the link handy but you should be able to find it with a little searching.....

That's not surprising. You make a claim but don't have the link handy.

Yep! I don't save every page I visit, why should I? And why should I do the search FOR you, just to please you? Are you THAT lazy that you won't even do a search yourself?

I have provided evidence, points of research and argumentation that there is at least something legit to CSETI and it isn't a giant 17-year lie/hoax as you would claim.

No, millerman, you haven't. All that you have is the word of Richard/tock and a distant light in the sky that showed no details.

And an organization with a 17-year body of work with hundreds of apparently satisfied customers, since there has been no evidence that they are DISsatisfied. And the fact that Greer still has his license to practice medicine - he would lose it if he were found to be hoaxing the public. And the fact that the NPC conference happened, which indicates that he had huge credibility with all those people, and if he had huge credibility with them, there must have been a reason! And the fact that he doesn't seem to care at all about proving himself, which suggests that he has ALREADY proven himself and has huge cred from positive word-of-mouth, even if not on the Internet....

Face it, there is a lot of evidence that he is credible, even if he hasn't posted a nice handy video on Youtube that proves everything....

I told you, I saw David Blaine, levitating, ON A TV SHOW some time last year. I don't know if it's anywhere on the internet or not; you'll have to do your own searching. At least I gave you a place to start!

You made the claim, you provide the evidence and proof.

Get off your lazy arse and do some research for yourself! I'm not obligated to do anything, especially when it comes to levitation, which I don't really care about.

(What I care about is actually the suppression of technology, which is a claim most definitely NOT attributed solely to Greer, so it's an absolute tragedy that we constantly get hung up on the vectoring of UFOs claim, which is TRIVIAL compared to the suppression of technology and our planet slowly dying all around us..............)

Do you even fully understand what you type, millerman? You make the claim that this Angel person walked on water, which is nearly the same as levitating (according to you). Then you inform me that he is a MAGICIAN! Far out, millerman, do you even realise how silly that is??? Of course magicians can walk on water. I've watched David Copperfield defy all laws of reality with his illusions! But, they are ILLUSIONS! They are not reality. Magicians ADMIT to performing clever illusions!

They do? I thought they usually act like they are doing real magic, and it's everyone else that thinks it's an illusion.

Anyway, the David Blaine one was quite amazing. He stood out on the street talking to these three girls, then he turned and raised his arms and levitated up maybe 10 inches for a few seconds - and the girls absolutely FREAKED.

Believe it or not, I don't really care. I wish I had a nice handy link for you, but it was ON TV so I don't. Maybe you can look it up and order a video or something, if you are interested in that.

Dude, you have serious credibility issues when you try to use a magician performing a water-walking stunt, as somehow relating to proof that people can levitate.

I never said it was proof, in fact what I said was, people can watch a person levitating on TV and STILL not believe, but rather assume it's a stunt or trick or illusion etc.... just like what you said about David Copperfield.

Again, my point was that it's extremely difficult to "prove" ANYTHING to rigorous scientific standards, so your constant demands for PROOF PROOF PROOF are pointless. A person could levitate right in front of your face, no props or anything, and you'd probably STILL not believe - because you don't WANT to believe.

Originally posted by millerman

Greer also posts pictures on his CSETI website that supposedly show energy beings and other types of alien/UFO phenonema. In fact, what he posted was pictures of moths and other camera artifacts. That's fraudulent.

How do you know for a fact that they are moths or insects? PROVE IT!

Sorry to jump in here folks - but Millerman, it was pretty much proven that they were moths by analysis and comparison of other slow shutter speed photographs of bugs and moths at night time. Same exact product pops up on the film/picture... so, it is pretty much undeniable that they are bugs - unless Greer himself is now claiming bugs are alien communication anchors?

Originally posted by kroms33

Sorry to jump in here folks - but Millerman, it was pretty much proven that they were moths by analysis and comparison of other slow shutter speed photographs of bugs and moths at night time. Same exact product pops up on the film/picture... so, it is pretty much undeniable that they are bugs - unless Greer himself is now claiming bugs are alien communication anchors?

Aright, so worst case scenario, someone was looking through their photographs for neat ones to post, they saw something which looked neat and posted it but it ended up being merely a glowy moth, glowing a bright pinkish-white glow due to "camera flash".

So what?

None of this proves that Greer and CSETI have never vectored in UFOs.... if they are lying about it, there would be hundreds of pissed-off people loudly and visibly proclaiming that they had been ripped off and demanding their $$$ back and burying CSETI with lawsuits, which hasn't happened at all, as far as I can tell. Also Greer would likely lose his license to practice medicine, which also hasn't happened, as far as I can tell.

I have seen NO evidence of dissatisfied CSETI trainees; whereas I have seen plenty of evidence of satisfied CSETI trainees. And I have seen plenty of other evidence that Greer has huge cred, albeit more from positive word-of-mouth and networking than from Internet marketing/advertising.

Originally posted by millerman
Aright, so worst case scenario, someone was looking through their photographs for neat ones to post, they saw something which looked neat and posted it but it ended up being merely a glowy moth, glowing a bright pinkish-white glow due to "camera flash".

So what?

Why 'So what?'. It has been declared in public by CSETI that it is a Light Being, not a moth. It's hardly an accidental posting. They also imply that these Light Beings can be encountered if you go on their training course whci costs several hundred dollars.

None of this proves that Greer and CSETI have never vectored in UFOs.... if they are lying about it, there would be hundreds of pissed-off people loudly and visibly proclaiming that they had been ripped off and demanding their $$$ back and burying CSETI with lawsuits, which hasn't happened at all, as far as I can tell. Also Greer would likely lose his license to practice medicine, which also hasn't happened, as far as I can tell.

Depends what's in the NDA they have to sign. And they may not pissed-off because they themselves might believe the moth is a Light Being. After all, that's what they've been told. They may change their minds, of course, if any of them come to ATS and discover the truth!

I have seen NO evidence of dissatisfied CSETI trainees; whereas I have seen plenty of evidence of satisfied CSETI trainees. And I have seen plenty of other evidence that Greer has huge cred, albeit more from positive word-of-mouth and networking than from Internet marketing/advertising.

Please tell us who these satisfied trainees are and give us some examples of the 'other evidence' Greer has.

On Video Footage and the nature of Proof

Video footage from a 2002 CSETI expedition

What we could produce in a studio with special effects 30 YEARS AGO

Can photographs or video footage really be considered PROOF any more??

I've seen this video before and it looks to me like satellites. I've seen plenty myself during star-gazing sessions. Sometimes, like in this video, they appear to travel together... the rest of the video shows still photos of out of focus dust particles or water droplets, but here they say they have faces!!!

I've no doubt the video is real but what does it prove?