Why Such An Uproar Over Non-US Citizens With H1-B Work Visas.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
H1B is a ticket for immigrants to ethically and productively enter American society. That's what we want, not to freeze traffic completely but to carefully process applicants and grant them access based on merit. If you're not a criminal and you are prepared to pull your weight as a citizen, that's a strong argument in favor of H1B.

I disagree somewhat. H1B is for needed unique skillsets, not to hire the cheaper options. I understand Musk as in hiring some crazy mathematicians/engineers from India that are in a league of their own, but to just get cheaper skillsets that tend to be on the higher cost kind of abuses the system, not saying Musk did this, but many do.

What you are suggesting above is our normal legal immigration process that is not typically H1B.

a reply to: Xtrozero

If there's hard evidence someone is purposely hiring qualified non citizens to cut cost by exploiting them for skills that aren't fairly compensated, as opposed to hiring a qualified candidate and rewarding them appropriately, then punish the corporations for malpractice, not the immigrants who are lawfully inhabiting and in search of honest gainful employment.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

Then punish the corporations for malpractice, not the immigrants who are lawfully inhabiting and in search of honest gainful employment.

What punishment toward immigrants...lol

The H-1B visa is a non-immigrant visa that allows U.S. employers to temporarily hire foreign workers in specialty occupations that require specialized knowledge and a relevant degree. What this means is they come here to work and then go home. What part of this are you talking about? As I said before all that needs to be done is not make the H1B profitable to hire cheap labor and then just use it for that "require specialized knowledge" part so that people come here based more on their unique talents and not cheaper labor.

a reply to: TzarChasm

What it all comes down to is corruption in the system. If Americans sincerely want America First then we must root out corruption wherever it stems from. Even if it's embedded in one's own political party.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I edited my comments to underline that aspect of the situation. H1B allows up to 6 years of residency while naturalization requires at least 5 years residency, therefore the overlap between foreign worker pass (regularly traveling for work while not applying for citizenship) and immigration is significant and can be used to qualify if the desire occurs. It's very convenient for certain visitors who decide America is generally safer and more rewarding than the home where their family is waiting and choose to permanently relocate everyone to their work residence.

originally posted by: cherokeetroy
a reply to: TzarChasm

What it all comes down to is corruption in the system. If Americans sincerely want America First then we must root out corruption wherever it stems from. Even if it's embedded in one's own political party.

Sure but that's not what H1B does anymore than 2A is responsible for violent crime.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
I edited my comments to underline that aspect of the situation. H1B allows up to 6 years of residency while naturalization requires at least 5 years residency, therefore the overlap between foreign worker pass (regularly traveling for work while not applying for citizenship) and immigration is significant and can be used to qualify if the desire occurs.

We need two types of worker visas. One is the H1B to get that unique work talent, and the other should be seasonal workers we need for our crops and other areas. We need about 2 to 3 million each year. What this would mean is they come here for the season then go home. This would allow all to be vetted and registered that protects them from human trafficking and other bad practices.

So, all we need would be the typical 1+ million immigrants per year, H1B for the unique talents, and seasonal worker visas.

originally posted by: some_stupid_name
We should use H1-B Work Visas to replace the United States current education system with the best the world has to offer. "From the teachers to the administration the children will learn to read."

Teachers Unions are run by people who don't want the best for our little ones. Those A.Holes are disgusting!

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Xtrozero

originally posted by: cherokeetroy
a reply to: TzarChasm

What it all comes down to is corruption in the system. If Americans sincerely want America First then we must root out corruption wherever it stems from. Even if it's embedded in one's own political party.

Sure but that's not what H1B does anymore than 2A is responsible for violent crime.

It's the abuse of these programs that's the issue and the problem. You said yourself, if corporations are exploiting the programs, exploiting workers, then punish corporations. I agree.

a reply to: Xtrozero

There are several visas. H1B can be extended up to 3 years, L1 can be extended 7 years, O1 can be extended 3 years, E2 can be extended 5 years, TN can be extended indefinitely. These extensions offer the chance to meet naturalization requirements and submit for EB green card while waiting for the application window.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

There are several visas. H1B can be extended up to 3 years, L1 can be extended 7 years, O1 can be extended 3 years, E2 can be extended 5 years, TN can be extended indefinitely. These extensions offer the chance to meet naturalization requirements and submit for EB green card while waiting for the application window.

My point is we need a seasonal worker visa and that would solve 90% of the issues we have. Typical wait time for an immigrant visa to be approved is 19 years. My wife's sister is now just being processed as I paid for it almost two decades ago. I don't think it is right for people to just assume they can jump the line as 10s of millions wait it out.

originally posted by: cherokeetroy

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Xtrozero

originally posted by: cherokeetroy
a reply to: TzarChasm

What it all comes down to is corruption in the system. If Americans sincerely want America First then we must root out corruption wherever it stems from. Even if it's embedded in one's own political party.

Sure but that's not what H1B does anymore than 2A is responsible for violent crime.

It's the abuse of these programs that's the issue and the problem. You said yourself, if corporations are exploiting the programs, exploiting workers, then punish corporations. I agree.

"Punish Corporations" I wonder which governmental agency will be incharge of that....LOL

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: TzarChasm

There are several visas. H1B can be extended up to 3 years, L1 can be extended 7 years, O1 can be extended 3 years, E2 can be extended 5 years, TN can be extended indefinitely. These extensions offer the chance to meet naturalization requirements and submit for EB green card while waiting for the application window.

My point is we need a seasonal worker visa and that would solve 90% of the issues we have. Typical wait time for an immigrant visa to be approved is 19 years. My wife's sister is now just being processed as I paid for it almost two decades ago. I don't think it is right for people to just assume they can jump the line as 10s of millions wait it out.

That's what meritocracy means, citizenship opportunity is very selectively awarded on a performance basis to prominent qualified applicants who have met the naturalization requirements. I don't see why that's a conflict of interest.

originally posted by: lilzazz

originally posted by: cherokeetroy

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Xtrozero

originally posted by: cherokeetroy
a reply to: TzarChasm

What it all comes down to is corruption in the system. If Americans sincerely want America First then we must root out corruption wherever it stems from. Even if it's embedded in one's own political party.

Sure but that's not what H1B does anymore than 2A is responsible for violent crime.

It's the abuse of these programs that's the issue and the problem. You said yourself, if corporations are exploiting the programs, exploiting workers, then punish corporations. I agree.

"Punish Corporations" I wonder which governmental agency will be incharge of that....LOL

Why should corrupted governments be in charge of anything? It's past time for the people to stand up.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: TzarChasm

There are several visas. H1B can be extended up to 3 years, L1 can be extended 7 years, O1 can be extended 3 years, E2 can be extended 5 years, TN can be extended indefinitely. These extensions offer the chance to meet naturalization requirements and submit for EB green card while waiting for the application window.

My point is we need a seasonal worker visa and that would solve 90% of the issues we have. Typical wait time for an immigrant visa to be approved is 19 years. My wife's sister is now just being processed as I paid for it almost two decades ago. I don't think it is right for people to just assume they can jump the line as 10s of millions wait it out.

That's what meritocracy means, citizenship opportunity is very selectively awarded on a performance basis to prominent qualified applicants who have met the naturalization requirements. I don't see why that's a conflict of interest.

Granted, meritocracy is the ideal but in a system that operates on nepotism, favors repaid, intuitional corruption, bribes, and depending on social status; visas and HB1's are a valuable commodity to be bought and sold like the "lucky charms" and "Dawn dishsoap"....

originally posted by: cherokeetroy

originally posted by: lilzazz

originally posted by: cherokeetroy

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Xtrozero

originally posted by: cherokeetroy
a reply to: TzarChasm

What it all comes down to is corruption in the system. If Americans sincerely want America First then we must root out corruption wherever it stems from. Even if it's embedded in one's own political party.

Sure but that's not what H1B does anymore than 2A is responsible for violent crime.

It's the abuse of these programs that's the issue and the problem. You said yourself, if corporations are exploiting the programs, exploiting workers, then punish corporations. I agree.

"Punish Corporations" I wonder which governmental agency will be incharge of that....LOL

Why should corrupted governments be in charge of anything? It's past time for the people to stand up.

The people did stand up and vote for trump to lead the Nation. That should take care of the corrupted governments...right?

originally posted by: cherokeetroy

originally posted by: lilzazz

originally posted by: cherokeetroy

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Xtrozero

originally posted by: cherokeetroy
a reply to: TzarChasm

What it all comes down to is corruption in the system. If Americans sincerely want America First then we must root out corruption wherever it stems from. Even if it's embedded in one's own political party.

Sure but that's not what H1B does anymore than 2A is responsible for violent crime.

It's the abuse of these programs that's the issue and the problem. You said yourself, if corporations are exploiting the programs, exploiting workers, then punish corporations. I agree.

"Punish Corporations" I wonder which governmental agency will be incharge of that....LOL

Why should corrupted governments be in charge of anything? It's past time for the people to stand up.

Last time government started micromanaging hiring policy, it was in favor of certain ethnic groups regardless of qualifications. Now we have a vocal minority focusing on nationalist principal instead of qualifications. Give jobs to "proper Americans" and not the candidate who best fits the task. The citizenship incentive is beside the point, inviting the brightest talent to improve domestic industry is the point. Think of it like a reverse scholarship. I'm also not talking about 15 million applicants but maybe 10-15,000 potential citizens being invited to perform high value services while completing the naturalization process. General hiring practices also need to be calibrated to better accommodate our post grad citizens who have two or more degrees and struggling to find meaningful employment which can be federal regulated (eliminate two dozen unhelpful regulations and replace with one very effective regulation like this one) because there is a nasty pattern in the corporate sector where qualified applicants are rejected for financial breaks that allow more funds to be diverted and effectively exploiting the budget at the expense of staffing and resource. Streamline hiring regulations to eliminate ghost jobs and deadend interview practices, reward high performance H1B residents, curb the extension benefits of work visas and knock it off the nationalist replacement hysteria.

originally posted by: cherokeetroy

Why should corrupted governments be in charge of anything? It's past time for the people to stand up.

You go first...

a reply to: TzarChasm

Give jobs to qualified Americans is the actual argument. Qualified Americans who are shut out because they're too expensive. Hence, the exploitation of outsourcing to cheap labor from other countries. Not much different than slave labor or indentured servitude. This practice hurts Immigrants and native Americans, both. In addition to contributing destroying America's middle class.

originally posted by: cherokeetroy
a reply to: TzarChasm

Give jobs to qualified Americans is the actual argument. Qualified Americans who are shut out because they're too expensive. Hence, the exploitation of outsourcing to cheap labor from other countries. Not much different than slave labor or indentured servitude. This practice hurts Immigrants and native Americans, both. In addition to contributing destroying America's middle class.

Qualified Americans used to develop unique skills, product and market from scratch, working out of their basement or barn or whatever hole in the ground they could afford with minimum wage. Now qualified Americans whine about how the job market is too saturated, regulated or just plain discriminatory because they can't sell their services effectively. Many of our most successful business leaders got started doing a pitiful job and working their way up while cultivating their hustle on the side and figuring out how to market their services outside of punching a clock. Complaining is lazy, and blaming immigrants is pathetic.

I debated this conflict from a legal standpoint, economic standpoint and now a philosophical or common sense standpoint. That's my piece and I'm leaving it here. Good day to you.

a reply to: TzarChasm

It doesn't matter. In the end, AI/robots are going to take over most of these jobs, anyway. Regardless of skill level or nationality.