Are the invader cells being activated? I think so.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: MrGashler
a reply to: chr0naut

It's been a long time since I've been so baffled by a question that I simply have to ask the person to elaborate. Please explain your question.

OK, I'll try and restate things:

The '8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien' statute proscribes misdemeanour civil penalties only (you can check by clicking the link) - just like a parking fine is a misdemeanour civil penalty.

Does getting a misdemeanour civil penalty (like a parking fine, or crossing the US Southern border) qualify someone to be described as an 'illegal'?

Does commiting a crime make you a criminal?

If you enter the US without documentation, and you aren't allowed to come in, but you are here, what are you?

a·li·en
/ˈālyən/
adjective
belonging to a foreign country or nation.

A legal alien is one with documentation. An Illegal alien is one without.



Do you believe you?

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: chr0naut

Now you resort to using redirected links that are not part of anything. The gotaway numbers come from Congressional investigations of DHS reports. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Border Sector Chiefs Confirm Operational Impacts of Border Chaos: Increased Gotaways, Closed Checkpoints, and Empowered Cartels

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Under President Biden and Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) sources have confirmed over 1.7 million known gotaways at the Southwest border. Even worse, in a March 2023 field hearing, then-U.S. Border Patrol Chief Raul Ortiz testified that the number of total gotaways could be as much as 20 percent higher than the publicly reported numbers.

edit on Sep-03-2024 by xuenchen because: 🤡🤡🤡🤡

Let me see, Trump built a lot of his wall, and it was greatly successful.

And Trump negotiated with Mexico to prevent people from crossing the border, again successfully.

And Biden was forced to build even more wall and has now implemented a fairly strict policy of turning border crossers back, and not accepting asylum seekers who don't come in via designated ports of entry.

... and yet numbers of apprehensions doubled after Trump made a big public issue of the border, even while he was still in office, and now millions are allegedly coming in across the border, despite all that 'success'?



What has motivated all those border crossers?

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: chr0naut

Your deflections and tangents are getting more detailed.

Escalation of Commitment
Confirmation Bias
Jealousy
Bitterness
Brain Anger
Appeal to Probability
Conjunction Fallacy
🤣

Really?

Brain anger, too?

What about tidal waves, or itchy woollen jumper?

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: MrGashler
a reply to: chr0naut

It's been a long time since I've been so baffled by a question that I simply have to ask the person to elaborate. Please explain your question.

OK, I'll try and restate things:

The '8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien' statute proscribes misdemeanour civil penalties only (you can check by clicking the link) - just like a parking fine is a misdemeanour civil penalty.

Does getting a misdemeanour civil penalty (like a parking fine, or crossing the US Southern border) qualify someone to be described as an 'illegal'?

Does commiting a crime make you a criminal?

An average six-year old, a sociopath, or a psychopath would answer unequivocally "yes", but most adults would have an understanding of moral dilemma and ambiguity and say "it probably depends on the situation and the 'justness' of the law".

Ask yourself, are there such things as bad laws that criminalize people for doing things that harm no-one, and that criminalize things necessary for human survival in some situations?

Consider, for instance, the fairly standardised test scenario for how a human deals with moral ambiguity:

"An old man's wife is dying and there is a medicine available that will cure her at a local pharmacy. The old man goes to buy the medicine, but he can't afford it and the pharmacist tells him to go away. Later than night, while the pharmacy is closed, the old man breaks in and steals the medicine and gives it to his wife. Did the old man do the wrong thing?"

Young children, psychopaths and sociopaths always say that the old man did the wrong thing, because they have not developed ethical discernment.

If you enter the US without documentation, and you aren't allowed to come in, but you are here, what are you?

Considering the systematic array of obstacles to get there, and ongoing issues beyond mere entry, I'd say you'd have to be damned desperate.

a·li·en
/ˈālyən/
adjective
belonging to a foreign country or nation.

A legal alien is one with documentation. An Illegal alien is one without.

Do you believe you?

Are all UFO aliens illegal aliens, then?



Were the founding fathers of the USA, and anyone who came over the borders before 1891, all illegals by your definition?

a reply to: AwakeNotWoke

Kamala and Walz are just proof that they think elections can be stolen easily and that's why they're nominated.

Does getting a misdemeanour civil penalty (like a parking fine, or crossing the US Southern border) qualify someone to be described as an 'illegal'?

a reply to: chr0naut

C'mon chr0naut you don't really think crossing the US border illegally is just a civil crime do you? Really? How can you expect people to respect your view point and discuss/debate something like illegal immigration with you when you are so disingenuous? If you really believe that crossing the US border illegally is the equivalent to a parking ticket than just stop typing, you are really pushing people away in disgust. Please stop it!

Whether it's by crossing the U.S. border with a "coyote" or buying a fake U.S. passport, a foreign national who enters the U.S. illegally can be both convicted of a crime and held responsible for a civil violation under the U.S. immigration laws. Illegal entry also carries consequences for anyone who might later attempt to apply for a green card or other immigration benefit.

there are a gazillion references-c'mon man

Crossing the border illegally is not only a felony, but it is a federal crime. Not just any attorney will be able to argue a complex case of this nature in front of a federal court; federal crimes require specialized lawyers with unique sets of expertise and experience taking high-stakes cases to trial. The punishments for crossing the border illegally are as follows:

First offenses for crossing the border illegally can result in fines and imprisonment for up to six months. 

Subsequent offenses for crossing the border illegally can result in fines and imprisonment for up to two years. 

Re-entry after conviction for three or more misdemeanors can result in fines and imprisonment for up to ten years. 

Re-entry after conviction for an aggravated felony can result in fines and imprisonment for up to twenty years. 

now you can see how much our great country's kindness is being taken advantage of

originally posted by: fringeofthefringe

Does getting a misdemeanour civil penalty (like a parking fine, or crossing the US Southern border) qualify someone to be described as an 'illegal'?

a reply to: chr0naut

C'mon chr0naut you don't really think crossing the US border illegally is just a civil crime do you? Really? How can you expect people to respect your view point and discuss/debate something like illegal immigration with you when you are so disingenuous? If you really believe that crossing the US border illegally is the equivalent to a parking ticket than just stop typing, you are really pushing people away in disgust. Please stop it!

Don't blame me. I didn't write the statute.

Can you also tell me who in the USA is the victim if a poor illiterate family thinks they can escape their problems and tries to gain undocumented entry?

Whether it's by crossing the U.S. border with a "coyote" or buying a fake U.S. passport, a foreign national who enters the U.S. illegally can be both convicted of a crime and held responsible for a civil violation under the U.S. immigration laws. Illegal entry also carries consequences for anyone who might later attempt to apply for a green card or other immigration benefit.

there are a gazillion references-c'mon man

Crossing the border illegally is not only a felony, but it is a federal crime. Not just any attorney will be able to argue a complex case of this nature in front of a federal court; federal crimes require specialized lawyers with unique sets of expertise and experience taking high-stakes cases to trial. The punishments for crossing the border illegally are as follows:

First offenses for crossing the border illegally can result in fines and imprisonment for up to six months. 

Subsequent offenses for crossing the border illegally can result in fines and imprisonment for up to two years. 

Re-entry after conviction for three or more misdemeanors can result in fines and imprisonment for up to ten years. 

Re-entry after conviction for an aggravated felony can result in fines and imprisonment for up to twenty years. 

now you can see how much our great country's kindness is being taken advantage of

According to all those red baseball caps, America is no longer great.

And America is ruthlessly capitalist. Some of the individual people may be kind, but get 'em in a group and they are self-centred, ultracompetitive, exclusive of outsiders and vicious about it.

a reply to: chr0naut

Do you get paid by the length of the post, because yours are so long with no coherent points. You post in circles.

Do they have the same thing for New Zealand? While I wouldn't sell out my own country for money, I have zero qualms about selling out another.

Who do I contact? I'm looking for work.

a reply to: chr0naut

I don't believe you beleive you at this stage. You are reckless and sad. If a law is unjust, you change the law, you don't get to ignore it. You can't just follow the laws you feel suit you, and ignore those who don't.

New Zealand immigration laws provide a framework for us to manage immigration in a way that balances our national interests with our international obligations, protecting both New Zealanders and migrants.

throwing stones in glass houses and all. Why does your nation have immigraion laws? Can anyone sail over, gain entry, and run amok in your land? If so, I'll start organizing the boats now.

originally posted by: SourGrapes
a reply to: chr0naut

Do you get paid by the length of the post, because yours are so long with no coherent points. You post in circles.

Do they have the same thing for New Zealand? While I wouldn't sell out my own country for money, I have zero qualms about selling out another.

Who do I contact? I'm looking for work.

No, I don't get paid for posting.

But I am trying to get across complex points of debate about topics that are often controversial.

It seems strange and rather pointless to me to expect to read only echo-chamber posts that always and only support one's own opinion.

Perhaps you need a lot of affirmation?

There, there, cheer up.

I would love to hear your thoughts about the topic thread.

a reply to: chr0naut

Still absolutely baffled, but I now at least understand the route you're trying to go with your question. It's an exceptionally stupid a$$ question though.
No. Getting any arbitrary civil misdemeanor does not qualify someone as an illegal. An illegal immigrant is someone who has entered into the US unlawfully and is not a citizen or resident of the US. Did you actually need that explained to you? You actually needed to ask that question? Seriously?

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: chr0naut

I don't believe you beleive you at this stage. You are reckless and sad. If a law is unjust, you change the law,

I totally agree. But have you tried to change an existing law? It takes a lot of protest, argument, petition and raising of awareness about the unfairness or insufficiency of a law.

you don't get to ignore it. You can't just follow the laws you feel suit you, and ignore those who don't.

I know. But debating a law, or even being pedantic about the letter of a specific existing law and its application is not ignoring it.

And what you seem to have missed about our immigration policies here is an attitude we hold:
Welcome Home by Dave Dobbyn

Tonight I am feeling for you
Under the state of a strange land
You have sacrificed much to be here
There for the grace, as I offer my hand

Welcome home
I bid you welcome
I bid you welcome
Welcome home
From the bottom of my heart

Out here on the edge
The empire is fading by the day
And the world is so weary in war
Maybe we'll find that new way

So welcome home
See I made a space for you now
Welcome home
From the bottom of our hearts
Welcome home
From the bottom of our hearts

Keep it coming now, keep it coming now
You'll find most of us here
With our hearts wide open
Keep it coming now, keep it coming now
Keep it coming now, keep it coming now...

There's a woman with her hands trembling
Haere mai
And she sings with a mountain's memory
Haere mai

There's a cloud the full length of these isles
Just playing chase with the sun
And it's black, and it's white, and it's wild
And all the colours are one

So welcome home
I bid you welcome
I bid you welcome
Welcome home
See I made a space for you now
Welcome home
From the bottom of our hearts
From the bottom of our hearts

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: chr0naut

yeahbut can you show anything?

misinformation is dangerous ☠️

and don't forget the main source of immigration has been crossing illegally and not getting caught ☠️ No graphs for that is there

No, there are no graphs for that.

But with the drone, satellite, and various electronic border incursion detection systems, as well as regular on-ground patrols, how many do do you think actually get through unnoticed?

In the millions over the years. I just worked with five of them recently that just came over two months ago, not one of them got caught or noticed, they made their way into the middle of the country unnoticed. People flow in here daily uncontested by the hundreds if not thousands some days. I’ve told you several times chro that you don’t know how things work over here in our reality. You seem to think your some authority on all things US, you’re not.

a reply to: chr0naut

Can you also tell me who in the USA is the victim if a poor illiterate family thinks they can escape their problems and tries to gain undocumented entry?

JHC you just don’t get it do you? How about we send 20 million of them over to kiwi land and then you can tell us how that works out for you. You’re embarrassing yourself at this point with your cherry picking bs. And for the record being poor and illiterate DOES NOT qualify you for asylum. You’re going to need to find a more desperate situation than that. BTW most of the country’s where these people are coming from are ineligible for asylum in general.

a reply to: KrustyKrab

Make sure to empty out our prisons and send them along, as well!

a reply to: Xtrozero

It seems you want to blame immigrants for the holes in US voting system, that's definitely not on target and actually pretty much how the right rallies their racist bases away from the topics that would solve a problem towards their racist agendas...

Career politicians are those who profit the most from a democratic process that can be cheated on.

Sure it's not xenophobia, but all your problems are their fault... Give me a break...

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Xtrozero

It seems you want to blame immigrants for your the holes in your voting system, that's definitely not on target and actually pretty much how the right rallies their racist bases away from the topics that would solve a problem towards their racist agendas...

Career politicians are those who profit the most from a democratic process that can be cheated on.

Sure it's not xenophobia, but all your problems are their fault... Give me a break...

Project much? That’s a idiotic post. You think the right core base is racist? What racist agendas does the right have? Enlighten us.

Illegals are nothing but tools and pawns for the left and they’ll continue to use them until they have no more use for them just like they’ve done to the black community. The dems are doing everything they can to allow them to vote. It’s a form of treason IMO.

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Xtrozero

It seems you want to blame immigrants for your the holes in your voting system, that's definitely not on target and actually pretty much how the right rallies their racist bases away from the topics that would solve a problem towards their racist agendas...

Career politicians are those who profit the most from a democratic process that can be cheated on.

Sure it's not xenophobia, but all your problems are their fault... Give me a break...

No, I'm blame the liberals for trying to stack the deck, but it still doesn't remove the illegal part of entering the country as they do. Is it OK to go into a house and move in just because the front door was unlocked?

a reply to: chr0naut

Smuggling Chum Smuggling.

Do have any idea how many smuggling routes exist into The U.S. ? 😀

Your references to Border Watching is only part of the story. How do you think they can know about thousands of gotaways a day? Then add thousands more they don't detect. It'll take full blown active duty military to get ALL the "getaways". 🙌

Wake up and start limiting your "trust" in the "official" reporting. 😉

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: chr0naut

Your deflections and tangents are getting more detailed.

Escalation of Commitment
Confirmation Bias
Jealousy
Bitterness
Brain Anger
Appeal to Probability
Conjunction Fallacy
🤣

Really?

Brain anger, too?

What about tidal waves, or itchy woollen jumper?

Are you feeling the guilt yet? Get used to it. 😃