Are the invader cells being activated? I think so.

a reply to: chr0naut

Your first paragraph makes no sense in the context of my post to which you are replying.

As to the U.S. owning its own problems, nobody ever said otherwise. What or whose argument are you trying to counter? You seem confused. This has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

If anything, it underscores the foolishness of taking in problem people from the rest of the world when are not even addressing our own. If you had a house full of drug addicts, the last thing you'd want to do is take in drug addicts from the street.

:

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: chr0naut

I don't believe you beleive you at this stage. You are reckless and sad. If a law is unjust, you change the law,

I totally agree. But have you tried to change an existing law? It takes a lot of protest, argument, petition and raising of awareness about the unfairness or insufficiency of a law.

you don't get to ignore it. You can't just follow the laws you feel suit you, and ignore those who don't.

I know. But debating a law, or even being pedantic about the letter of a specific existing law and its application is not ignoring it.

And what you seem to have missed about our immigration policies here is an attitude we hold:

Welcome Home by Dave Dobbyn

Tonight I am feeling for you
Under the state of a strange land
You have sacrificed much to be here
There for the grace, as I offer my hand

Welcome home
I bid you welcome
I bid you welcome
Welcome home
From the bottom of my heart

Out here on the edge
The empire is fading by the day
And the world is so weary in war
Maybe we'll find that new way

So welcome home
See I made a space for you now
Welcome home
From the bottom of our hearts
Welcome home
From the bottom of our hearts

Keep it coming now, keep it coming now
You'll find most of us here
With our hearts wide open
Keep it coming now, keep it coming now
Keep it coming now, keep it coming now...

There's a woman with her hands trembling
Haere mai
And she sings with a mountain's memory
Haere mai

There's a cloud the full length of these isles
Just playing chase with the sun
And it's black, and it's white, and it's wild
And all the colours are one

So welcome home
I bid you welcome
I bid you welcome
Welcome home
See I made a space for you now
Welcome home
From the bottom of our hearts
From the bottom of our hearts

So we can send you boat loads of Venezuelan gang bangers? Sweet! I'll send Trump a link to your welcome message and we can get those boys on the boats straight away! BTW, they like to sleep in late and have brunch rather than breakfast, so be sure to be accommodating as well as welcoming.

How will you separate out all the gang bangers that sleep in late from the rest of them?

Also, I know of some US Citizens who are gang bangers and sleep in late.

Perhaps US citizens are mostly gang bangers who sleep in late?

You'd think you'd be happy to meet-up with other 'Murricanz of like mind?

originally posted by: AwakeNotWoke
a reply to: chr0naut

Your first paragraph makes no sense in the context of my post to which you are replying.

As to the U.S. owning its own problems, nobody ever said otherwise. What or whose argument are you trying to counter? You seem confused. This has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

If anything, it underscores the foolishness of taking in problem people from the rest of the world when are not even addressing our own. If you had a house full of drug addicts, the last thing you'd want to do is take in drug addicts from the street.

Once again, the thrust of your argument was the assumption that migrants across the Southern border are the source of the US drug problems and that they are/were criminals.

The statistics show that, compared to US citizens, those crossing the Southern border are comparatively law-abiding in regard to serious crimes:

Most immigrants, authorized and unauthorized alike, are more law-abiding than native-born Americans.

Trump says migrants are fueling violent crime. Here is what the research shows

Presenting immigrants as "bad people" is both bigoted and, coming from a US citizen, hypocritical.

originally posted by: AwakeNotWoke

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: chr0naut

I don't believe you beleive you at this stage. You are reckless and sad. If a law is unjust, you change the law,

I totally agree. But have you tried to change an existing law? It takes a lot of protest, argument, petition and raising of awareness about the unfairness or insufficiency of a law.

you don't get to ignore it. You can't just follow the laws you feel suit you, and ignore those who don't.

I know. But debating a law, or even being pedantic about the letter of a specific existing law and its application is not ignoring it.

And what you seem to have missed about our immigration policies here is an attitude we hold:

Welcome Home by Dave Dobbyn

Tonight I am feeling for you
Under the state of a strange land
You have sacrificed much to be here
There for the grace, as I offer my hand

Welcome home
I bid you welcome
I bid you welcome
Welcome home
From the bottom of my heart

Out here on the edge
The empire is fading by the day
And the world is so weary in war
Maybe we'll find that new way

So welcome home
See I made a space for you now
Welcome home
From the bottom of our hearts
Welcome home
From the bottom of our hearts

Keep it coming now, keep it coming now
You'll find most of us here
With our hearts wide open
Keep it coming now, keep it coming now
Keep it coming now, keep it coming now...

There's a woman with her hands trembling
Haere mai
And she sings with a mountain's memory
Haere mai

There's a cloud the full length of these isles
Just playing chase with the sun
And it's black, and it's white, and it's wild
And all the colours are one

So welcome home
I bid you welcome
I bid you welcome
Welcome home
See I made a space for you now
Welcome home
From the bottom of our hearts
From the bottom of our hearts

So we can send you boat loads of Venezuelan gang bangers? Sweet! I'll send Trump a link to your welcome message and we can get those boys on the boats straight away! BTW, they like to sleep in late and have brunch rather than breakfast, so be sure to be accommodating as well as welcoming.

How will you separate out all the gang bangers that sleep in late from the rest of them?

Also, I know of some US Citizens who are gang bangers and sleep in late.

Perhaps US citizens are mostly gang bangers who sleep in late?

You'd think you'd be happy to meet-up with other 'Murricanz of like mind?

It was a simple enough question.

I'm sure that if you assume that everybody who has entered the country undocumented is a 'gang-banger who sleeps in late', it's a no-brainer to separate them out, but the demographic data reveals that such identification is a little more complex and difficult than that.

Here's something to think about. The USA is currently spending enormous sums on border enforcement, money that is not really economically productive (it won't generate more capital):

The Cost of the Border Crisis: $150.7 Billion and Counting

Your taxes are paying that.

Increasing border security beyond current levels is also going to multiply the amount of public money required, everyone knows that.

Trump and other poliiticians are thelling you that your tax money needs so badly to be spent on better border security, to protect you from the alleged 'threat'

Didn't Trump say he was going to cut taxes? Instead, he is, in effect, saying, "Look over there" while he lifts your wallet.

So much for not giving up your fiscal liberty to feed the 'nanny' state, eh?

In fact, what you are paying for is not actually keeping the very few 'bad people' out, but you are actually paying to keep the way larger numbers of 'good people' out.

And, as I said before, since the USA owes its current wealth and 'greatness' to its originally immigrant populations, why not instead make immigration a thing in the 'here-and-now' that works to the advantage of the USA, instead of making it an ongoing burden to the USA?

Any businessman knows you don't grow your business by eliminating your customers. If Trump had really been a businessman, rather than the fraud he has been convicted of, then he'd have seen that and acted accordingly.

originally posted by: Terpene

The problem is that, without probable cause people are allowed to refuse ID in the US... How will you identify illegals? How you going to get around that without appearing racist?

the simplest solution is make it that police can id anyone anytime they deem fit. It's in the spirit of equal rights before the law...

Or maybe you want an US pendant to the SS... FU as in freedom Unit or some such Orwellian use of language...

We can both agree without going on and on that immigration is good and important for many countries. I think we can both agree that undocumented and uncontrolled immigration is bad on many levels. So, I do not know what we are debating anymore.

We have 10s of millions that we have no clue who they are, and the best cases they just become a burden on society well past what society can handle. Worst cases they are doing some really illegal crap. You tell me how to fix it.

originally posted by: Terpene

What if a kid hoped on the weels, turned the keys, totaled your car, a bar, and killed several people.
who enabled him to do that with your car? Sure it did all the damage, but to maintain dangerous tools inaccessible to non authorized people should be the responsibility of the owner, and there should be repercussions if you fail to fulfill that duty...

Wouldn't you agree?

There is a level of responsibility, so yes, I agree. Same goes for guns... if you have guns and kids, you better lock them up. The question is...what is considered reasonable accommodations for all that not to happen. The law talks about that all the time.

a reply to: Xtrozero

People who have no sense of responsabiliy or trust towards their nation and the organ that is meant to run the nation.
It can be nice but it can go sideways. if it does you need to adjust the amount of freedoms granted.

It doesn't work without "papers please" and you can't only control those that "look like foreigners" as the probable cause

You'll die on the freedom hill and on your last breath you'll realize it was always a golden cage and all the freedom was just an illusion.

You need government to regulate the things that cause all your sociodynamic problems, or they'll suffocate you.
Some seems to think the US is still the wild west... I guess some can't be bothered to become civilized, unfortunately they might end up savages...

a reply to: chr0naut

Here's something to think about.

How dare you... Forcing them to think, you so mean you put so much stress on people

originally posted by: Terpene

It doesn't work without "papers please" and you can't only control those that "look like foreigners" as the probable cause

It is a slippery slope, but it is hard in life not to show ID for so many things, and if all those are inaccessible then what does a person do if they cannot work, cannot go to the ER, cannot get any social services, can't enroll their kids in school, cannot drive etc etc. The only thing to do is go home. Even if you get a job under the table the employer can be checked and big fines put on them to make hiring under the table not a good way to go. These are already laws. just need to enforce them. Obama deported about a million per year, seems we survived that.

So, you do not need to go all SS with the old Nazi "give me your papers". I just moved to Virginia Beach, and I had to show a ton of documents for my driver's license, such as birth cert, passport, SS card, 2 or 3 forms of documentation for my address, such as water bill/gas etc.

a reply to: chr0naut

over generalization is what a racist does. You are doing that. you are being intellectually dishonest.
Everyone who comes here illegally isn't a gang banger, or even a bad person. The vast majority of them are coming for a better shot at life. They are doing what they feel is best for them and their family. That's not bad, it's commendable.

But, it's not sustainable for the US as a nation to allow any and everyone to come. Just as New Zealand would not survive 30 cruise ships full of illegal immigrants from Venezuela dumped on your shores. You would have to find ways to house them, feed them, give them health care, and find them places in your society. You might find ways to cope with the first 30, but when the 4000 ships on the horizon approach, even the most liberal idiot would become that which they claim they hate. A conservative.

The problem isn't the people, though there are some bad one's there. The problem is the system that allows them to come, and even encourages it. It's a recipe for disaster, and the incredibly stupid are cheering it on.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: chr0naut

over generalization is what a racist does. You are doing that. you are being intellectually dishonest.
Everyone who comes here illegally isn't a gang banger, or even a bad person. The vast majority of them are coming for a better shot at life. They are doing what they feel is best for them and their family. That's not bad, it's commendable.

But, it's not sustainable for the US as a nation to allow any and everyone to come. Just as New Zealand would not survive 30 cruise ships full of illegal immigrants from Venezuela dumped on your shores. You would have to find ways to house them, feed them, give them health care, and find them places in your society. You might find ways to cope with the first 30, but when the 4000 ships on the horizon approach, even the most liberal idiot would become that which they claim they hate. A conservative.

The problem isn't the people, though there are some bad one's there. The problem is the system that allows them to come, and even encourages it. It's a recipe for disaster, and the incredibly stupid are cheering it on.

5 million international travellers come into New Zealand every year, through Auckland airport alone (except in 2021, when we were mostly dealing with the pandemic). We seem to handle them OK. That's just one city.

We have a lot of 'more touristy' destinations, which accommodate lots of people without them becoming unaccommodated.

I would imagine in the USA, with all that extra land area, that you guys too could accommodate some tens of millions of people. Atlanta airport, the busiest, for instance, had more than 36.9 million passengers passing through in 2021, and there was a combined total of more than 84 million passengers at the top ten airports in that year.

Not all of them were international travellers, true, but all of them were accommodated and fed somewhere.

That's the problem with big numbers, they cause a buffer overflow if you don't have enough room in the registers.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: chr0naut

over generalization is what a racist does. You are doing that. you are being intellectually dishonest.
Everyone who comes here illegally isn't a gang banger, or even a bad person. The vast majority of them are coming for a better shot at life. They are doing what they feel is best for them and their family. That's not bad, it's commendable.

But, it's not sustainable for the US as a nation to allow any and everyone to come. Just as New Zealand would not survive 30 cruise ships full of illegal immigrants from Venezuela dumped on your shores. You would have to find ways to house them, feed them, give them health care, and find them places in your society. You might find ways to cope with the first 30, but when the 4000 ships on the horizon approach, even the most liberal idiot would become that which they claim they hate. A conservative.

The problem isn't the people, though there are some bad one's there. The problem is the system that allows them to come, and even encourages it. It's a recipe for disaster, and the incredibly stupid are cheering it on.

5 million international travellers come into New Zealand every year, through Auckland airport alone (except in 2021, when we were mostly dealing with the pandemic). We seem to handle them OK. That's just one city.

We have a lot of 'more touristy' destinations, which accommodate lots of people without them becoming unaccommodated.

I would imagine in the USA, with all that extra land area, that you guys too could accommodate millions of people. Atlanta airport, for instance, had more than 36.9 million passengers passing through in 2021, and there was a total of more than 84 million passengers at the top ten airports in that year.

Not all of them were international travellers, but all of them were accommodated and fed somewhere (other than where they normally lived).

That's the problem with big numbers. They cause overflow if you don't have enough room in the registers.

so your tourists are allowed to come in, be taken care of by your government, fed, sheltered, cared for, and can stay indefinitely? Got a link?


eta:
it's posts like this that make me think you are a bot, or at the very least, not a serious poster. You seem to not understand there is a difference between folks on vacation, and folks migrating to a new land. I assure you, there is a difference, you should first, fix that part of your understanding, and only then, speak on this topic, to not follow that order, will only make you look as foolish as this post does. I'm looking our for you sport.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: chr0naut

over generalization is what a racist does. You are doing that. you are being intellectually dishonest.
Everyone who comes here illegally isn't a gang banger, or even a bad person. The vast majority of them are coming for a better shot at life. They are doing what they feel is best for them and their family. That's not bad, it's commendable.

But, it's not sustainable for the US as a nation to allow any and everyone to come. Just as New Zealand would not survive 30 cruise ships full of illegal immigrants from Venezuela dumped on your shores. You would have to find ways to house them, feed them, give them health care, and find them places in your society. You might find ways to cope with the first 30, but when the 4000 ships on the horizon approach, even the most liberal idiot would become that which they claim they hate. A conservative.

The problem isn't the people, though there are some bad one's there. The problem is the system that allows them to come, and even encourages it. It's a recipe for disaster, and the incredibly stupid are cheering it on.

5 million international travellers come into New Zealand every year, through Auckland airport alone (except in 2021, when we were mostly dealing with the pandemic). We seem to handle them OK. That's just one city.

We have a lot of 'more touristy' destinations, which accommodate lots of people without them becoming unaccommodated.

I would imagine in the USA, with all that extra land area, that you guys too could accommodate millions of people. Atlanta airport, for instance, had more than 36.9 million passengers passing through in 2021, and there was a total of more than 84 million passengers at the top ten airports in that year.

Not all of them were international travellers, but all of them were accommodated and fed somewhere (other than where they normally lived).

That's the problem with big numbers. They cause overflow if you don't have enough room in the registers.

so your tourists are allowed to come in, be taken care of by your government, fed, sheltered, cared for, and can stay indefinitely? Got a link?

Of course our government doesn't pay for them. Everyone is expected to pay for themselves. That is how economies work. Our government does provide some services, though, at a very reasonable price. Can't do paradise on a budget!

eta:
it's posts like this that make me think you are a bot, or at the very least, not a serious poster. You seem to not understand there is a difference between folks on vacation, and folks migrating to a new land. I assure you, there is a difference, you should first, fix that part of your understanding, and only then, speak on this topic, to not follow that order, will only make you look as foolish as this post does. I'm looking our for you sport.

Nah, you are experiencing right-wing buffer overflow. It's probably from all the lead in the petrol.

originally posted by: chr0naut


Of course our government doesn't pay for them. Everyone is expected to pay for themselves. That is how economies work. Our government does provide some services, though, at a very reasonable price.



Nah, you are experiencing right-wing buffer overflow. It's probably from all the lead in the petrol.

Believe it or not, the US also has a tourist attractions aspect. We get millions of visitors each year, and when they come, they fly in themselves, feed themselves, and when they are done seeing the sights, they go home. We call that "the tourism industry". Now that we have defined that, we can talk about the illegal immigration thing. It's not tourism.

Illegal immigrants are coming to the border of the US, and in many cased, flown in from other countries, only to be housed, fed, and cared for by both local and federal government entities. That sounds vastly different than tourism, no?

We have a problem and it needs to stop. the illegals need to be removed, and if they wish to immigrate to the US, they need to do so using the system we have in place. The same system that allowed immigrants from all over the world, to come to Ellis Island and become citizens of this nation, thus making up the great melting pot that the USA is.

So based on your misunderstanding of the difference between immigration and tourism, am I now to understand that New Zealand could not sustain 4 million people, who need immediate care, housing and food, have no money, and don't plan to leave?

Oh, and we have had unleaded fuel since 1975 when leaded fuel was outlawed. You should keep up with things you plan to bring up while attempting to be relevant.

a reply to: network dude

The cognitive dissonance is strong with that one. It'll take either a personal attack by an illegal (and for the far left even that doesn't help) or a psychotic break for some people to begin to embrace reality.

a reply to: network dude

only to be housed, fed, and cared for by both local and federal government entities. That sounds vastly different than tourism, no?

Illegal immigrants can access government aid programs?

Really?

Here you get a personalized card when you are an immigrant or refugee and you can only acces those support programs when you can show the card....

originally posted by: chr0naut
Once again, the thrust of your argument was the assumption that migrants across lack of control at the Southern border are the a major source of the US drug problems and that they are/were criminalsall the people crossing don't have to be criminals in order for the lack of control to be worsening drugs, crime, and terrorism without being the exclusive cause.

FIFY.

originally posted by: network dude

eta:
it's posts like this that make me think you are a bot, or at the very least, not a serious poster. You seem to not understand there is a difference between folks on vacation, and folks migrating to a new land. I assure you, there is a difference, you should first, fix that part of your understanding, and only then, speak on this topic, to not follow that order, will only make you look as foolish as this post does. I'm looking our for you sport.

I'm also thinking this as his posts tend to drift off into zero sense at times. How does one suggest that they can take care of 5000 tourist that spend 1000s there compared to 5000 illegals that will need 100% support from the Government for everything, and not for a week or two, but for their whole lives.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

Of course our government doesn't pay for them. Everyone is expected to pay for themselves. That is how economies work. Our government does provide some services, though, at a very reasonable price.

Nah, you are experiencing right-wing buffer overflow. It's probably from all the lead in the petrol.

Believe it or not, the US also has a tourist attractions aspect. We get millions of visitors each year, and when they come, they fly in themselves, feed themselves, and when they are done seeing the sights, they go home. We call that "the tourism industry". Now that we have defined that, we can talk about the illegal immigration thing. It's not tourism.

It's probably closer to 80 million tourists each year.

But we were talking about capacity to accommodate and feed people, and it seems that your brain stops at classifying people as different.

All people need food and accommodation. How they enter the country is irrelevant to that.

Illegal immigrants are coming to the border of the US, and in many cased, flown in from other countries, only to be housed, fed, and cared for by both local and federal government entities. That sounds vastly different than tourism, no?

What, the people who come in 'under the radar' and the government does not know about, are fed and housed?

I think you will find that the ones that are fed and housed are those who come in through designated ports of entry and are applying for asylum, or those who are apprehended and imprisoned.

The USA has a lot of prisons. It incarcerates more people than any other country. In fact, it incarcerates a bigger percentage of its population than any other country, bar one. It's expensive to do all that, too. As I pointed out previously, it's money that is not really going to feed back in to the economy.

We have a problem and it needs to stop.

You don't say?

the illegals need to be removed, and if they wish to immigrate to the US, they need to do so using the system we have in place. The same system that allowed immigrants from all over the world, to come to Ellis Island and become citizens of this nation, thus making up the great melting pot that the USA is.

In 1924, President Calvin Coolidge (Republican Party, of course) implemented the Immigration Act of 1924, which essentially closed the US to migrants form Europe and Asia. The Immigration Act was not repealed until 1965.

At the time, it was said that immigration was “a foreign conspiracy" (“When Mexico sends its people..." - DJT) and that “a stream of alien blood” was poisoning the nation ("They're poisoning the blood of our country" - DJT). Them neo-Nazi's have just got to neo-Nazi, eh?

A century ago, anti-immigrant backlash almost closed America’s doors

So based on your misunderstanding of the difference between immigration and tourism, am I now to understand that New Zealand could not sustain 4 million people, who need immediate care, housing and food, have no money, and don't plan to leave?

New Zealand currently produces enough caloric production capacity to feed 20 million people and enough protein production capacity to feed 45 million people.

Monaco has a high standard of living and has a population density of 18,000 people per sq km, so it seems a reasonable upper bound for what might possibly happen in New Zealand, which has a land area of 268,680 sq km, 36.8% of which is currently used for farming. Then we have 30,990 sq km used for national parks, but I would double that in future to 61,980 sq km (because I like those natural spaces, and NZ has them in spades).

That leaves a potential 206,700 sq km for housing and business purposes. If we assume that 30% is for business uses like manufacturing and warehousing, that leaves 144,690 sq km for potential residential land. If we assume that 30% of that land is inviable for housing due to bad terrain/flood prevalence or whatever, that leaves 101,283 sq km of potential useable residential land, which at a population density of 18,000/km gives a capacity of 1.823 billion people, so not a real limitation there.

Since we have a current population of about 5,220,600, and using the current caloric production as an upper bound (the smallest of all the numbers), I'd say that New Zealand could comfortably accommodate 13 million to 14 million extra people, if everything was done right.

Also: Could 7 billion people live in a Texas-sized city?

Oh, and we have had unleaded fuel since 1975 when leaded fuel was outlawed. You should keep up with things you plan to bring up while attempting to be relevant.

It was 1996 when unleaded was finally banned, but up to that time: Lead from gasoline blunted the IQ of about half the U.S. population, study says

So, if you are an American older than 28, they are talking about you.

originally posted by: Solvedit

originally posted by: chr0naut
Once again, the thrust of your argument was the assumption that migrants across lack of control at the Southern border are the a major source of the US drug problems and that they are/were criminalsall the people crossing don't have to be criminals in order for the lack of control to be worsening drugs, crime, and terrorism without being the exclusive cause.

FIFY.

A big part of the drug problem are the users.

You also know that if you wrangled things so the crooks couldn't make any real money out of it, like if you gave affordable clean drugs to addicts under medical prescription and supervision, then the crims wouldn't make all that money and the illegal supply lines would dry up as they went broke, or were arrested. You might even get some people to kick the habit who would not do so otherwise.