Are the invader cells being activated? I think so.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: chr0naut

Trump successfully negotiated with Mexico to have Mexico stop and slow down immigrant convoys. You know that right?

Trump may have negotiated with Mexico, but the statistics show that it was clearly not successful.

Like the 'peace deal' that Trump organized for Israel (the one that gave the Temple Mount to the Palestinians for many years to come). According to Trump, his 'deal' secured a lasting peace between Israel and its surrounding neighbour states. But the Temple Mount was already under Palestinian control beforehand, the Palestinians boycotted the meetings, there was no real cessation in hostilities, and Hamas has attacked Israel, and there is currently a hot war in Gaza. Such a 'success'!

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: chr0naut

An island as small as new Zeeland supposedly mixes faster when confronted with colonialism, might even be part of the culture to breed with off islanders... If so that would barely take 2 generations to mix it up into one new geen pool... I mean, the smaller the community the viser it is to breed with outsiders...

Quite probably, but these islands (plural) were first (unofficially) colonized by Europeans about 200 years ago. Since that time, there has been a lot of intermixing.

Geography of New Zealand

originally posted by: KrustyKrab
a reply to: chr0naut
Here is the apprehension numbers straight from the guberment, it’s not even close. His last year in office was one of the lowest. Not the foolery you’re trying to claim. But but Trump did it right?🙄

I can see that the numbers in 2019 (under Trump) are more than double what they were in 2016 (under Obama), and after 2022 (a year after Biden became President), then numbers started to come down again.

originally posted by: Solvedit

originally posted by: chr0nautThere was no evidence in the video that they were breaking in. Nor was there any evidence of criminal activity. It was implied, but prosecution requires evidence that a crime has been committed.

You think they just found a cell phone floating in the middle of the ocean with an unexplainable confrontation on it?

No.

originally posted by: KrustyKrab

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: chr0naut

If they commit criminal acts, that makes them criminals, but crossing the border undocumented is not a criminal act.

You keep saying that even after seeing the actual law. Why are you lying so much?

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 (each face represents 10,000 people laughing at you)

It clearly states that it is civil law. Not criminal.

If you want to be lax about definitions, perhaps Trump is a convicted criminal?

Ya know you’re wrong quite often there bud. It can be both criminal and civil.
There’s that TDS again👏

a foreign national who enters the U.S. illegally can be both convicted of a crime and held responsible for a civil violation under the U.S. immigration laws.

Criminal Penalties for Improper Entry to the United States For the first improper entry offense, the person can be fined (as a criminal penalty), or imprisoned for up to six months, or both. For a subsequent offense, the person can be fined or imprisoned for up to two years, or both. (See 8 U.S.C. Section 1325, I.N.A. Section 275.)

Civil Penalties for Unlawful Entry to the United States Entry (or attempted entry) at a place other than one designated by immigration officers carries additional civil penalties. The amount is at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or twice that amount if the illegal entrant has been previously fined a civil penalty for the same violation. (See 8 U.S.C. Section 1325, I.N.A. Section 275.)

Please link to the sources for those quotes.

I have tried multiple online legal databases and 8 USC Section 1325 proscribes civil penalties only - in all of them.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: chr0naut

I'm not saying this as a matter of fact.

Just suggesting that we should consider that the Democrats can encourage immigration without holding the White House. Additionally, it could be more beneficial to them to push harder for it when they aren't in Office.

-They could use the statistics to play a blame game.

-They could use the influx to secure future votes.

Lots of other uses to consider as well.

Just throwing it out there.

The US Borders and Customs are under the Department of Homeland Security, under the Executive Branch. Except for budget allocation, Congress is not in charge of them, the President is their ultimate chief of staff.

The Dems could use statistics, but the statistics are not particularly favourable to them, either.

The Dems could use the influx to secure future votes, but I don't think undocumented people can vote, so they'd have to become legally sanctioned migrants; i.e, with a visa and seeking citizenship, or naturalized citizens to do that.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: chr0naut

The U.S. land that was one time Mexico was bought and paid for, not taken. 🤣

The Annexation of California From Mexico | Overview & History

Mexico was forced to give up California because it lost the Mexican-American War. The provision of its loss were laid out in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.

Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Colorado, and Texas were all formally acquired by the US after the Mexican-American War.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: chr0naut

Your little graph is "apprehensions and expulsions", not releases into the U.S. 😊

Yup. So it includes all those attempting to enter the US undocumented and who were apprehended, and not those entering via official ports of entry seeking asylum.

As you pointed out, no-one has data about those who were never apprehended.

So, this is probably the best data we have, and will ever get, on attempts at undocumented entry over the US Southern border.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Solvedit

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Solvedit

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Solvedit

originally posted by: chr0nautPeople who cross the Southern border and seek asylum once they are inside the US are not 'illegals'. They are compliant with the law for seeking asylum in the US. They cannot do it at an embassy, or from a foreign country. They must have already crossed the border.

International law says they have to do so at the nearest country.

I think US Law is more applicable within national boundaries, but please feel free to cite that international law.

Do you understand that we are not prosecuting recent arrivals but discussing whether the present policy is desirable?

Why would the want to move to a country they detest?

Surely it would make more sense that they'd want to live in a place they thought was nice?

i.e. you admit they want to move to a nice country. Perfectly understandable, I agree.

But what will become of the world and us if the rest of the world's poor don't have to work to improve their own country but can just come here?

Take a look at America when it was booming. It wasn't made that way by its first nations inhabitants. It is a country of immigrants, many of whom came to America with very little wealth.

So, adding more people=booming. Then why weren't their home nations booming?

War, corruption, mismanagement, lack of resources, bad weather destroying crops, crime, disease, all the same reasons for nations not to boom. Sometimes its just bad luck. Sometimes the nation is booming economically, but all the wealth goes into the hands of a few people.

But why not make it overall profitable for the US to take in people? Then the extra cash can pay for the humanitarian aid to asylum seekers.

Why don't you just say "make it profitable for them to stay home" if you are busy randomly inferring profitability.

Well, if they did stay home, how could the USA profit from them?

Not only that, but the numbers of people trying to cross the Southern border has skyrocketed ever since Trump began advertising internationally that people were trying to cross the border to seek a better life in the USA.

Try and put yourself in the mindset of a poor South American farm worker. There's enormous poverty and crime, but it's all you have ever known. Then, on the TV are these news reports that there is a promised land of opportunity where they are failing to stop many who are seeking a better life. And these reports continue to go on year after year, and life where you are gets harder, crime, conflict and war gets worse. What sort of a plan might you get up to to, save your life and those of your family?

In between 2012 and 2015, before Trump's campaign to advertise the USA as a place of refuge and a better life began, the numbers of people crossing the border was at a 10 year low. Then after 2016, the trend began to go up, even while Trump's alleged 'closures' of the borders were happening. After that, the advertising in the international press continued on an almost weekly basis as Trump continued to double-down on making it an issue. Check the stats:

Apprehensions and expulsions registered by the United States Border Patrol from the 1990 fiscal year to the 2023 fiscal year

this has to be the best you have ever done.

Trump is to blame for pointing out the problem. I think we solved all the issues to date with that one.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: chr0naut

yeahbut can you show anything?

misinformation is dangerous ☠️

and don't forget the main source of immigration has been crossing illegally and not getting caught ☠️ No graphs for that is there

No, there are no graphs for that.

But with the drone, satellite, and various electronic border incursion detection systems, as well as regular on-ground patrols, how many do do you think actually get through unnoticed?

Several thousand a day get through, just like the millions of smuggled items get through every day. Stop being a naïve pseudo intellectual. The smuggling routes are wide open.

And, the Border "Patrols" are not as good as you think. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Just this fiscal year, 169 individuals on the terrorist watchlist were apprehended attempting to enter the country illegally, and at least 1.7 million known gotaways have evaded apprehension since FY2021.

FACTSHEET: Final FY23 Numbers Show Worst Year at America’s Borders—Ever

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: KrustyKrab

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: KrustyKrab
a reply to: chr0naut

Not only that, but the numbers of people trying to cross the Southern border has skyrocketed ever since Trump began advertising internationally that people were trying to cross the border to seek a better life in the USA.

Seriously, where do you come up with this BS? The numbers skyrocketed under Biden, I’ve seen the data. You’ll say frigg’n anything if you can somehow twist it to blame Trump, pathetic.

Look at the graph. Look at when the trend started, and its slope, and compare it to the slope of more current trendlines.

The numbers coming across the border did not happen instantaneously. Things that are the result of political policies rarely do. But if you see a change in trend line, then you can be sure something preceded it to cause that change.

I don’t have to look at your graph, I just looked up the numbers recently and posted them here. It all “skyrocketed” as you say under Biden. But but blame trump, like I said, pathetic

The upward trend started in 2016 under the Trump administration.

Under the Biden government, the trend continued, at roughly the same slope, leading to the current numbers. The upward trend clearly started in 2016.

Are you afraid that looking at a graph, will melt your brain, or might it in fact reveal that your faith in Trump is misplaced??

Trump became President Jan 20, 2017. Obama was President in 2016 for the whole year. 😀

But Trump did campaign for more than a year, with one of his primary fave topics, of the situation on the US Southern border and his magic wall (which apparently hasn't helped any).

The "Wall" was never completed, and certain areas near The "Wall" have been effectively sabotaged.

And did you even know The Biden Admin was forced to actually build some Wall sections too?? 🤣

And, show some examples of your "Trump did campaign for more than a year" statement.

a reply to: chr0naut

Trump (and diplomacy) can't stop the internal sabotage in Mexico.

The rest of your post is a useless pointless deflection as usual, and a weak one at that. 🤣

a reply to: chr0naut

I'm glad you snapped up that one. Many people agree California as it is today can gladly be given back to Mexico. 😃

And of course you deliberately won't acknowledge the money payment:

Yes, the United States paid Mexico $15 million for California and other territories as part of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848

el zourze

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: chr0naut

yeahbut can you show anything?

misinformation is dangerous ☠️

and don't forget the main source of immigration has been crossing illegally and not getting caught ☠️ No graphs for that is there

No, there are no graphs for that.

But with the drone, satellite, and various electronic border incursion detection systems, as well as regular on-ground patrols, how many do do you think actually get through unnoticed?

Several thousand a day get through, just like the millions of smuggled items get through every day. Stop being a naïve pseudo intellectual. The smuggling routes are wide open.

And, the Border "Patrols" are not as good as you think. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Just this fiscal year, 169 individuals on the terrorist watchlist were apprehended attempting to enter the country illegally, and at least 1.7 million known gotaways have evaded apprehension since FY2021.

FACTSHEET: Final FY23 Numbers Show Worst Year at America’s Borders—Ever

I clicked the link at the bottom of the Homeland Security House Republicans page that you linked, the one that said "1.7 million known gotaways." to see where they sourced the number, and it linked to a Fox News article.

Trying to find where Fox News got the number, they have links that refer to a 61 page report which "cites new information obtained by the Judiciary Committee", but clicking those links leads to other Fox News pages with barely related stories like this one about a Republican bid for Speaker of the House.

Surely some circularly referencing clickbait is not the best that the Homeland Security House Republicans can come up with. Why not link to an online copy of the report itself?

a reply to: chr0naut

It's been a long time since I've been so baffled by a question that I simply have to ask the person to elaborate. Please explain your question.

a reply to: chr0naut

Why would I waste my time denying such nonsense? You actually think that, and you're free to think that. The fact that you believe that enough to actually say it says more about you than it does about anyone else.

So, wait, you're questioning whether or not illegal immigrants actually committed those crimes? Or what?
You're dancing around the topic now which leads me to suspect that you realize you're backing yourself into a corner.

a reply to: chr0naut

Now you resort to using redirected links that are not part of anything. The gotaway numbers come from Congressional investigations of DHS reports. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Border Sector Chiefs Confirm Operational Impacts of Border Chaos: Increased Gotaways, Closed Checkpoints, and Empowered Cartels

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Under President Biden and Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) sources have confirmed over 1.7 million known gotaways at the Southwest border. Even worse, in a March 2023 field hearing, then-U.S. Border Patrol Chief Raul Ortiz testified that the number of total gotaways could be as much as 20 percent higher than the publicly reported numbers.

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: KrustyKrab

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: KrustyKrab
a reply to: chr0naut

Not only that, but the numbers of people trying to cross the Southern border has skyrocketed ever since Trump began advertising internationally that people were trying to cross the border to seek a better life in the USA.

Seriously, where do you come up with this BS? The numbers skyrocketed under Biden, I’ve seen the data. You’ll say frigg’n anything if you can somehow twist it to blame Trump, pathetic.

Look at the graph. Look at when the trend started, and its slope, and compare it to the slope of more current trendlines.

The numbers coming across the border did not happen instantaneously. Things that are the result of political policies rarely do. But if you see a change in trend line, then you can be sure something preceded it to cause that change.

I don’t have to look at your graph, I just looked up the numbers recently and posted them here. It all “skyrocketed” as you say under Biden. But but blame trump, like I said, pathetic

The upward trend started in 2016 under the Trump administration.

Under the Biden government, the trend continued, at roughly the same slope, leading to the current numbers. The upward trend clearly started in 2016.

Are you afraid that looking at a graph, will melt your brain, or might it in fact reveal that your faith in Trump is misplaced??

Trump became President Jan 20, 2017. Obama was President in 2016 for the whole year. 😀

But Trump did campaign for more than a year, with one of his primary fave topics, of the situation on the US Southern border and his magic wall (which apparently hasn't helped any).

The "Wall" was never completed, and certain areas near The "Wall" have been effectively sabotaged.

A section of Trump's 'new wall' blew over in a storm recently, LOL (he really knows how to build stuff, eh?):

And did you even know The Biden Admin was forced to actually build some Wall sections too?? 🤣

Many Presidents built bits of the Southern border barriers, walls and fences, going back to Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Harry S. Truman (both Democrats).

And Lyndon B Johnson (also a Democrat) signed the 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act which, for the first time, placed a cap on the number of people who could immigrate to the U.S. from Western Hemisphere countries like Mexico. Prior to that there was no limit.

And, show some examples of your "Trump did campaign for more than a year" statement.

The concept for the proposed expansion of the existing border wall was developed by campaign advisers Sam Nunberg and Roger Stone in 2014 as a memorable talking point Trump could use to tie his business experience as a builder and developer to his immigration policy proposals:

Where The Idea For Donald Trump's Wall Came From

Here's a video of Trump talking about his border wall on January 24, 2015, which was 5 months before the official launch of his Presidential campaign. The 2016 presidential campaign of Donald Trump was formally launched on June 16, 2015, at Trump Tower in New York City. (The bit about the wall begins at about the 4 minute mark into the video):Trump is still talking-up the wall even now, 9 years later:

Trump Picked Worst Possible Spot For New Border Wall Stunt

a reply to: chr0naut

Your deflections and tangents are getting more detailed.

Escalation of Commitment
Confirmation Bias
Jealousy
Bitterness
Brain Anger
Appeal to Probability
Conjunction Fallacy
🤣

originally posted by: MrGashler
a reply to: chr0naut

It's been a long time since I've been so baffled by a question that I simply have to ask the person to elaborate. Please explain your question.

OK, I'll try and restate things:

The '8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien' statute proscribes misdemeanour civil penalties only (you can check by clicking the link) - just like a parking fine is a misdemeanour civil penalty.

Does getting a misdemeanour civil penalty (like a parking fine, or crossing the US Southern border) qualify someone to be described as an 'illegal'?