Are the invader cells being activated? I think so.

a reply to: KrustyKrab

Your real problem is that illegals can vote!!!
But it seems that we don't actually want to solve the issue here... Just rally the base... Typical carrer politicians...

But hey if you want to be milked by the same people over and over again keep ignoring the holes in your voting process that are bigger than the holes in swiss chees...

Every coutry deals with illegals.
every countries first wave of immigrants tends to vote left.
Every countries racists tend to vote right.

What? we gonna cry about how political propaganda works. The clever ones start to ignore it, while the sheep get radicalized.
Deal with it, it's your country that only advanced it's military to the 21st century and neglected everything else.
But yeah that's also the immigrants fault...
Basically your still the bestest country if you look only at the military tech and everything that's bad is somone elses fault.

If the problems you face could just be bombed away, you'd have solved them yesterday

a reply to: Xtrozero

There are always those that still do it although we said it's not OK.
i mean we could blame those that still enter and aren't caught, but is that going to solve anything at all? If you think pointing finger helps maybe point it at those meant to protect your house from somone illegally entering, or those meant to catch them, they failed their part, the one you as a citizen have any sort of control over. The other half of that equation you have no control over...

Does insurance pay anything if I leave my car open with the keys in? It's a me problem not a them problem...

Seems your only way out is vigilantism, because more governement control isn't an option, or so i heard.
Unless of course you make a special task Force that only goes after foreigners, I'm sure that'll sit well.
Here is a pro-tip, don't use white hoodies, make them rainbow colored instead which brings us back to the slippery slope this topic could get you onto if things play out the way i see them being set up...

There aren't many reason your government wouldn't want an airtight voting process, and none of them has anything to do with immigrants...

How does that work for an illegal immigrant to vote exactly?
how does the government enable them to cast a legit vote?
what's the process for an illegal to vote?

I'm thinking there is some conjecture going on, when people claim illegals can vote... I mean i can try to cast a non legit vote, but it's not that the government gives me any recurse to do so. the punishment would also be rather severe if caught.

originally posted by: Terpene

There are always those that still do it although we said it's not OK.
i mean we could blame those that still enter and aren't caught, but is that going to solve anything at all? If you think pointing finger helps maybe point it at those meant to protect your house from somone illegally entering, or those meant to catch them, they failed their part, the one you as a citizen have any sort of control over. The other half of that equation you have no control over...

I'm not pointing a finger; I'm saying secure the border and remove 30 million send them back to their home country.

Does insurance pay anything if I leave my car open with the keys in? It's a me problem not a them problem...

Then you steal my car, and I hunt you down and kill you. It's a you problem for stealing my car, right? There is so much wrong with your statement BTW I really don't want to get into it other to say that insurance companies will canx policies used too much. This is what is happening in big cities as businesses are forced to leave because they no longer have insurance.

Seems your only way out is vigilantism, because more governement control isn't an option, or so i heard.
Unless of course you make a special task Force that only goes after foreigners, I'm sure that'll sit well.
Here is a pro-tip, don't use white hoodies, make them rainbow colored instead

which brings us back to the slippery slope this topic could get you onto if things play out the way i see them being set up...

Illegal is illegal. Why does it have to be racist when it is people from all over.

I'm thinking there is some conjecture going on, when people claim illegals can vote... I mean i can try to cast a non legit vote, but it's not that the government gives me any recurse to do so. the punishment would also be rather severe if caught.

So, let's follow your logic. 30 million are here so let's just make them US citizens. Talk about the floodgates opening, and liberals see them as fresh democratic votes. Remember when I said it take very little to change votes overall. We also do not have 30 million jobs waiting for people to do.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I see what you're affraid off. With a problem resolution that ends up in killing others i see why you're affraid of the world...

if it's enabled by the system itself you either change it or accept it... It's legal, it's how you've done it like forever. But It's also dangerous not to adapt to new situations that need clear regulations so they don't pose a danger to society.

It's a strange concept for conservatives i know, so I guess all they got for their modern-day problems are old or no solutions. Good thing they got immigrants that'll solve the problems...

Hey deport all illegals you catch, so long their live isn't in direct danger if you did, fine with me. Go catch em all, but stay away from special units to do so, that would smell really bad...

ETA let me know when they hit 30 000 000 arrested per year... Or at least where that number is coming from?
because i have a feeling we'd never hear back from you, let's make it fair, when they hit 5 000 000 arrests for illegaly staying during one year

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: KrustyKrab

Your real problem is that illegals can vote!!!
But it seems that we don't actually want to solve the issue here... Just rally the base... Typical carrer politicians...

But hey if you want to be milked by the same people over and over again keep ignoring the holes in your voting process that are bigger than the holes in swiss chees...

Every coutry deals with illegals.
every countries first wave of immigrants tends to vote left.
Every countries racists tend to vote right.

What? we gonna cry about how political propaganda works. The clever ones start to ignore it, while the sheep get radicalized.
Deal with it, it's your country that only advanced it's military to the 21st century and neglected everything else.
But yeah that's also the immigrants fault...
Basically your still the bestest country if you look only at the military tech and everything that's bad is somone elses fault.

If the problems you face could just be bombed away, you'd have solved them yesterday

Ummm no illegals can’t vote in federal elections by law, not sure where you got that? They’re trying to find loopholes to allow them to vote though and I’m sure some of them will manage to vote somehow.

Every countries racists tend to vote right.

Thats such bs terp, don’t believe everything the msm tells you to believe. The most racist people I know are actually democrats not people on the right. The people on the right don’t have a problem with immigrants it’s the ones coming here illegally that’s the problem. The people on the right are racist tripe has worn itself out because most people know it’s nonsense but it’s kind of all the brainwashed on the left have left to demonize people on the right.

You still haven’t told me what the racist right’s agenda is.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Illegal is illegal. Why does it have to be racist when it is people from all over.

The problem is that, without probable cause people are allowed to refuse ID in the US... How will you identify illegals? How you going to get around that without appearing racist?

the simplest solution is make it that police can id anyone anytime they deem fit. It's in the spirit of equal rights before the law...

Or maybe you want an US pendant to the SS... FU as in freedom Unit or some such Orwellian use of language...

a reply to: KrustyKrab

There are racist everywhere, sure, but you don't see the left rally their base around the xénophobe rhetoric... Why is that? Which brings us to your question

I can't, their only true agenda is making more money, their piggy bank has more racist than the dems piggy bank... Hence the diffrence in rhetorics... But it's obvious they're in not for you. If these holes in your voting process are and have always been present, no president has ever done anything for you... Pretty depressing state of affairs... Definitely another one if those things your government doesnt want to talk about, but hey there are immigrants lets talk about them...

I hope you make the cut because you've marinated long enough in your own crap, too bad the only thing you seem smell is the immigrants...

I hope this isn't the overall sentiment and state of awareness about your problems and ATS is just a tiny radical corner of the internet...

I'm not racist but let's talk about immigrants in the face of our falling nation... give me a break

a reply to: Terpene

There are racist everywhere, sure, but you don't see the left rally their base around the xénophobe rhetoric... Why is that? Which brings us to your question

So wanting people to come here legally is now xenophobic and racist? Give it a rest

I’m not even going to waste my time responding to all the other nonsense you’re posting. Sounds like your programming is complete.

a reply to: KrustyKrab

So wanting people to come here legally is now xenophobic and racist? Give it a rest

No that makes you a criminal...

Making your domestic and economic problems about those that come illegaly is xenophobe!
when you clearly have bigger fish to fry, it's also a little embarrassing for those that fall for it... But hey it's your mess, have at it how you think it serves you best, don't cry when it doesn't get better for long...
You have laws in place for it, just need to allocate the funds...
too bad it all ends up in some crooked politicians pocket... Which again not your fault that's because China bought them... Or soros... No you didn't vote them into office via the system you approve and trust as a nation that's all Russian interference....

The only nonsense is the premise of this thread...

I’m not even going to waste my time responding to all the other nonsense you’re posting. Sounds like your programming is complete.

That's what i would say if I run out of arguments...

Nice try

a reply to: Xtrozero

What if a kid hoped on the weels, turned the keys, totaled your car, a bar, and killed several people.
who enabled him to do that with your car? Sure it did all the damage, but to maintain dangerous tools inaccessible to non authorized people should be the responsibility of the owner, and there should be repercussions if you fail to fulfill that duty...

Wouldn't you agree?

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: chr0naut

I don't believe you beleive you at this stage. You are reckless and sad. If a law is unjust, you change the law,

I totally agree. But have you tried to change an existing law? It takes a lot of protest, argument, petition and raising of awareness about the unfairness or insufficiency of a law.

you don't get to ignore it. You can't just follow the laws you feel suit you, and ignore those who don't.

I know. But debating a law, or even being pedantic about the letter of a specific existing law and its application is not ignoring it.

And what you seem to have missed about our immigration policies here is an attitude we hold:

Welcome Home by Dave Dobbyn

Tonight I am feeling for you
Under the state of a strange land
You have sacrificed much to be here
There for the grace, as I offer my hand

Welcome home
I bid you welcome
I bid you welcome
Welcome home
From the bottom of my heart

Out here on the edge
The empire is fading by the day
And the world is so weary in war
Maybe we'll find that new way

So welcome home
See I made a space for you now
Welcome home
From the bottom of our hearts
Welcome home
From the bottom of our hearts

Keep it coming now, keep it coming now
You'll find most of us here
With our hearts wide open
Keep it coming now, keep it coming now
Keep it coming now, keep it coming now...

There's a woman with her hands trembling
Haere mai
And she sings with a mountain's memory
Haere mai

There's a cloud the full length of these isles
Just playing chase with the sun
And it's black, and it's white, and it's wild
And all the colours are one

So welcome home
I bid you welcome
I bid you welcome
Welcome home
See I made a space for you now
Welcome home
From the bottom of our hearts
From the bottom of our hearts

So we can send you boat loads of Venezuelan gang bangers? Sweet! I'll send Trump a link to your welcome message and we can get those boys on the boats straight away! BTW, they like to sleep in late and have brunch rather than breakfast, so be sure to be accommodating as well as welcoming.

?

originally posted by: Terpene

if it's enabled by the system itself you either change it or accept it... It's legal, it's how you've done it like forever. But It's also dangerous not to adapt to new situations that need clear regulations so they don't pose a danger to society.

Adapting to something uncontrolled doesn't make it good. What is going on in Switzerland very different to America. You have one dimensional issue of too fast too much. We have many layers...

originally posted by: Terpene
...
Does insurance pay anything if I leave my car open with the keys in? It's a me problem not a them problem...
...

BINGO! THANK YOU! THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT!

This is exactly the kind of mush-brained, left-wing, progressive/liberal thinking that got us where we are now.

So, let's extrapolate on your line of reasoning.

If this happens - if you leave you car unlocked and keyed and somebody steals it, is it a crime or isn't it?

If it is not a crime, that is if it is not against the law, some law, if there is no law - with attached, resulting penalties - saying that that should not be done, then we will have no order in society. It will be a free for all and nobody and nothing will be secure in their person or possessions. Now answer honestly, Terpene, would you be comfortable living in a society where there were no agreed upon rules designed to protect your physical person and your property; a society where in any given moment you and your goods would be fair game for anybody with a bigger stick than the one you carry? (Because you would have to carry a stick or a big knife or a gun.)

Let's just assume for a moment that you would not care to live in such a society. OK, then, here's the next conundrum: Say you forget your keys in your car and somebody steals it. Is that a you problem or a them problem? Now, if the society in which you live has prescribed rules that say that it is wrong to take another person's property (let's call that stealing for the sake of convenience, though that is surely a loaded, colonialist, racist, white supremacist word), that is to say someone steals your car because you left the keys in the ignition and stealing is against the rules (we'll use another loaded, colonialist, racist, white supremacist word, the law), then the law must a prescribe penalty for the offence, else the law has no teeth, and a law without teeth is just a suggestion, which brings us back to the situation that I described my previous paragraph.

So, if it's a you problem and not a them problem, who should suffer the penalty for the crime? Because that is where your reasoning leads. If it a you problem, then you must suffer the penalty (prison) for the theft of your car. You go to jail because somebody else stole your car because it was a you problem and not a them problem.

Again, THANK YOU for so clearly exposing the folly, the utter stupidity, of your reasoning (rather, lack thereof). Your lack of logic, understanding, foresight and ability to reason is astounding, but you clearly represent the greatest part of the left wing progressive/liberal movement and way of thinking.

:

originally posted by: Terpene
...
Does insurance pay anything if I leave my car open with the keys in? It's a me problem not a them problem...
...

In continuation, there is a thing called a high-trust society. Obviously a foreign concept to you, so let me give you an example.

I once lived in a small city in a semi-rural area. A bit outside of town was a family owned dairy. They sold unhomogenised low-heat pasteurized milk, butter, cheese, yogurt, etc., all produced on their little dairy farm. The products were wonderful; fresh, healthy, tasty.

On this dairy farm was an unmanned store. You could drive up to the dairy farm, walk right in to the store, and coolers were full of jugs of fresh milk, freshly churned butter, cheeses, whatever you wanted that came from a cow's milk. There was no clerk. The price list was displayed in visible place and a box for the money was on the table. One would pick up the products that they wanted, deposit the right amount of cash in the box, take any changed owed, and leave. There were no cameras. There was no kind of accounting process involving the customer. This went on for years.

Now, I no longer live there, but as I understand it, the demographics of the area have changed (as they have changed in many places) and the dairy owners have found that due to the influx of certain demographical elements, it is no longer possible to maintain this business model.

This was a TRUST BASED TRANSACTION. When trust degrades, the kind of society that can practice those kinds of trust based transactions falls apart.

Again, answer me honestly, Terpene, would you rather live in a society where that kind of trust based intercourse can occur, or would you rather live in a society where everything has to be kept under lock and key, and where if somebody steals from you, you would be the one to suffer the penalty of the crime?

Or would you, again, rather live in a society without rules or laws, where the person with the biggest stick, the biggest knife or the biggest gun makes the rules on a daily basis?

Because those are your only choices.

a reply to: AwakeNotWoke

We take in as much immigrants per capita as you do and we have no such trust issues. Somewhere along the process of impeding crime you fail so hard it's pathetic to blame it on anyone but yourselfs...

So what's your point?

you don't even trust your own government, so your only real option IS the biggest stick approach.

a reply to: AwakeNotWoke

Maybe you didn't make it to the other hypothetical scenario before going into a frenzy...

Here it is...

What if a kid hoped on the weels, turned the keys, totaled your car, a bar, and killed several people including himself...
who enabled him to do that with your car? Sure he did all the damage, but to maintain dangerous tools inaccessible to non authorized people should be the responsibility of the owner, and there should be repercussions if you fail to fulfill that duty.

Wouldn't you agree?

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: AwakeNotWoke

Maybe you didn't make it to the other hypothetical scenario before going into a frenzy...

Here it is...

What if a kid hoped on the weels, turned the keys, totaled your car, a bar, and killed several people including himself...
who enabled him to do that with your car? Sure he did all the damage, but to maintain dangerous tools inaccessible to non authorized people should be the responsibility of the owner, and there should be repercussions if you fail to fulfill that duty.

Wouldn't you agree?

I agree with PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. If the "kid" is stupid enough to steal my car and do damage with it, it is his own fault, not mine. The "kid" is guilty, not me. If the "kid" hotwires my car or uses an electronic decoder to get access to the remote unlocking and starting capabilities, is it still my fault?

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Maybe you don't understand the concept?

If the "kid" kills several people in the process, are you willing to go to prison for life for multiple counts of vehicular homicide? Will you be happy to pay for the damage that he caused out of your own pocket? Are you seriously telling me that you would be more than willing to take on all responsibility for all the damage that he did in the context of his act of theft?

And where to you draw the line of responsibility? If a 15 year old "kid" does it, or an 18 year old "kid," or a 21 year old "kid?" What if the "kid" is 30 or 40? Are you still willing to go to prison and divest yourself of all your worldly wealth to cover the damages he caused? Do you think that just?

Plese, do tell...

:

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: AwakeNotWoke

We take in as much immigrants per capita as you do ... you don't even trust your own government, so your only real option IS the biggest stick approach.

I don't know where "we" is, so I have no idea what that means.

And, NO, I do not trust "my own government." Governments should never be "trusted," always questioned, always held accountable. To "trust" a government is to invite totalitarian tyranny.

What i do trust is the integrity of my community. As I pointed out elsewhere, I have not taken the keys from my truck's ignition in over two months. This is not because I trust the government; it is because I trust my community.

There is a big difference!

but to maintain dangerous tools inaccessible to non authorized people should be the responsibility of the owner, and there should be repercussions if you fail to fulfill that duty.

Wouldn't you agree?

To a very, very limited degree, perhaps. If I gave that "kid" a bottle of liquor and the resulting drunken state lead to disaster, I'd say yes, I'd bear some responsibility. But if the "kid" takes something that is not his, knowing full well that it is not his and that he should not take it - regardless of the availability of said something - then that is on him. This is known in some circles as PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

As I have said elsewhere, my grandfather kept several shotguns in an unlocked closet on an unlocked back porch in the city for about 50 years and nothing untoward ever happened. They were never stolen. Nobody ever misused them.

Why?

Because everyone understood the concept of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, down to the youngest grandchild and every adult and kid in the neighbourhood.

ETA: You never answered any of my questions, just threw meaningless accusations at me. Just as I expected...

:

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: chr0naut

I don't believe you beleive you at this stage. You are reckless and sad. If a law is unjust, you change the law,

I totally agree. But have you tried to change an existing law? It takes a lot of protest, argument, petition and raising of awareness about the unfairness or insufficiency of a law.

you don't get to ignore it. You can't just follow the laws you feel suit you, and ignore those who don't.

I know. But debating a law, or even being pedantic about the letter of a specific existing law and its application is not ignoring it.

And what you seem to have missed about our immigration policies here is an attitude we hold:

Welcome Home by Dave Dobbyn

Tonight I am feeling for you
Under the state of a strange land
You have sacrificed much to be here
There for the grace, as I offer my hand

Welcome home
I bid you welcome
I bid you welcome
Welcome home
From the bottom of my heart

Out here on the edge
The empire is fading by the day
And the world is so weary in war
Maybe we'll find that new way

So welcome home
See I made a space for you now
Welcome home
From the bottom of our hearts
Welcome home
From the bottom of our hearts

Keep it coming now, keep it coming now
You'll find most of us here
With our hearts wide open
Keep it coming now, keep it coming now
Keep it coming now, keep it coming now...

There's a woman with her hands trembling
Haere mai
And she sings with a mountain's memory
Haere mai

There's a cloud the full length of these isles
Just playing chase with the sun
And it's black, and it's white, and it's wild
And all the colours are one

So welcome home
I bid you welcome
I bid you welcome
Welcome home
See I made a space for you now
Welcome home
From the bottom of our hearts
From the bottom of our hearts

So we can send you boat loads of Venezuelan gang bangers? Sweet! I'll send Trump a link to your welcome message and we can get those boys on the boats straight away! BTW, they like to sleep in late and have brunch rather than breakfast, so be sure to be accommodating as well as welcoming.

How will you separate out all the gang bangers that sleep in late from the rest of them?

Also, I know of some US Citizens who are gang bangers and sleep in late.

Perhaps US citizens are mostly gang bangers who sleep in late?

You'd think you'd be happy to meet-up with other 'Murricanz of like mind?

originally posted by: AwakeNotWoke

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: AwakeNotWoke

Maybe you didn't make it to the other hypothetical scenario before going into a frenzy...

Here it is...

What if a kid hoped on the weels, turned the keys, totaled your car, a bar, and killed several people including himself...
who enabled him to do that with your car? Sure he did all the damage, but to maintain dangerous tools inaccessible to non authorized people should be the responsibility of the owner, and there should be repercussions if you fail to fulfill that duty.

Wouldn't you agree?

I agree with PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. If the "kid" is stupid enough to steal my car and do damage with it, it is his own fault, not mine. The "kid" is guilty, not me. If the "kid" hotwires my car or uses an electronic decoder to get access to the remote unlocking and starting capabilities, is it still my fault?

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Maybe you don't understand the concept?

If the "kid" kills several people in the process, are you willing to go to prison for life for multiple counts of vehicular homicide? Will you be happy to pay for the damage that he caused out of your own pocket? Are you seriously telling me that you would be more than willing to take on all responsibility for all the damage that he did in the context of his act of theft?

And where to you draw the line of responsibility? If a 15 year old "kid" does it, or an 18 year old "kid," or a 21 year old "kid?" What if the "kid" is 30 or 40? Are you still willing to go to prison and divest yourself of all your worldly wealth to cover the damages he caused? Do you think that just?

Plese, do tell...

:

Blaming some other party is not taking personal responsibility.

Americas drug, crime, and gang problems within its borders, are entirely within its borders, and are of its own creation.