The Ukrainian sortie into Kursk was coordinated by British intelligence services

a reply to: charlest2

M'kay....

originally posted by: charlest2
a reply to: Oldcarpy2

If you think discussion is futile, why are you here?

I don't know.

Edit: I could detail my attitude now but I don't see any need to .

I think you do know why you're here and your reasons are as valid as anyone's, perhaps more so in some cases.

a reply to: Moon68

That's exactly why I came here.

Read my threads on my weird experiences?

Ukraine seizes major Russian town & nuke bomber CRASHES in double blow to Putin

Just an update.

Its "the sun" so dont hold me to the veracity.

But those things are pricey to the tune of $40 million apparently.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Moon68

That's exactly why I came here.

Read my threads on my weird experiences?

And now you are a weird experience

a reply to: Moon68

Oh. My sides.

Anything to add on topic?

a reply to: Moon68

.....not all who come here look for spirited debate and discussion. Some are here for bigfoot, aliens and lizzard people.

Very true and those are the sort of topics that probably brought most of us here in the first place.

But if that was the extent of a members interests they wouldn't post in a Ukraine War themed thread would they?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: rickymouse

I don't believe either sides propaganda war death estimates. It is war, and that is how warring governments work.

Safe bet people are dying, do you mean the estimates to be more or less than stated?

The fact is an entire generation will be severely diminished and that's on both sides.

I have no clue if it is more or less than stated. Both sides are either on the defense or offense, so you cannot believe either. It is just the way it is, it is not the war that bothers mee, it is the propaganda they use to deceive people that is the problem. I am sure that those prospering from the war will say it is necessary and they need to keep it going.

Lots of people over there are dying, that is evident, both sides have casualties and there are always civilians killed in war, it is illegal to target civilians, but not illegal internationally to have civilians die.

a reply to: rickymouse

'Lots of people over there are dying, that is evident, both sides have casualties and there are always civilians killed in war, it is illegal to target civilians, but not illegal internationally to have civilians die."

Yes it is.

a reply to: rickymouse

In war propaganda is a tool no denying that fact.

As to targeting civilians well, Russia has been doing that since day one via its cruise missile strikes and artillery barrages.

Glide bombs they are on to now, which dont discriminate nether.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: rickymouse

"A lot of people are dying on both sides in a war that could have been avoided if Ukraine would have negotiated for peace in the first place."

You mean, capitulate and surrender?

The War could have been avoided if Putin hadn't started it.

If your country was invaded, how would you feel if folk told you you should just roll over and not defend yourselves?

In charge of NATO?!!

Bit of a stretch mate.

I'm being polite.

Russia originally said they wanted a two hundred mile demilitarized zone in Ukraine and Zelinski said no Fkn way. He wanted to join NATO and put bombs right next to Moscow. He is a war monger and so are lots of people in Moscow. Zelinski would not negotiate at all, they would have still had that strip to do whatever with, Putin just wanted a neutral zone. I don't want Putin having nukes in Canada, neither would anyone else here, heck, look at what happened with Cuba back in the sixties, we were almost in WW111 back then.

I am American and will support America if needed, but I am not brainwashed, I can see the concerns of Russians too.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: rickymouse

It’s Ukraines fault they got invaded and are getting land stolen from them?

It’s not Putin’s fault for invading and taking land from neighbors?

The largest nation by land mass is actively growing its borders, and it’s the fault of the country being occupied? How’s that work?

Remember, there were agreements when Ukraine left the soviet union, one of them was not to be able to join Nato or have weapons close to Russia. It was Russian Territory and the west weasled it away from Russia with false promises which the common citizens of Ukraine never saw benefit from. Ukraine is just as corrupt as Russia, and Ukraine also tried to destroy any people left there that were still associating with Russian relatives or business dealings with Russia. Maybe I do not agree with Russian policies, but I also do not agree with Ukrainian policies.

a reply to: rickymouse

To my knowledge, it wasn’t humored by the west that Ukraine would join NATO until 2022.

Russia took Crimea in 2014 and had troops in the east before the west talked about Ukrainian membership.

The only thing discussed at length and with seriousness before that was EU membership which is largely economic.

a reply to: rickymouse

Remember, there were agreements when Ukraine left the soviet union, one of them was not to be able to join Nato or have weapons close to Russia.

What agreement was that?

a reply to: rickymouse

Remember, there were agreements when Ukraine left the soviet union, one of them was not to be able to join Nato or have weapons close to Russia.

There was no such agreement.

You just made that up.

a reply to: rickymouse

Russia still has military relations with Cuba and Venezuela. They just had some naval assets visit Cuba.

We’re not annexing Cuba right now.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: rickymouse

In war propaganda is a tool no denying that fact.

As to targeting civilians well, Russia has been doing that since day one via its cruise missile strikes and artillery barrages.

Glide bombs they are on to now, which dont discriminate nether.

I can guarantee you one thing, if the USA did get into a war, civilians on the other side would die too. It has been that way in every war we fought and pretty much every war anywhere kills innocent citizens who do not benefit from the war.

I choose not to take sides in a war between two countries that have governments I am not in align with. Now, the Canadians or Brits and many other countries, I would support them but I am not really pleased with NATO itself. Just because I can see the concerns of Moscow with being surrounded by major weapons from an adversary, doesn't mean I am on Russia's side in this.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: rickymouse

'Lots of people over there are dying, that is evident, both sides have casualties and there are always civilians killed in war, it is illegal to target civilians, but not illegal internationally to have civilians die."

Yes it is.

How many civilians died in Iraq by the actions of US and the wests raids on Iraq a while back. Did any country get charged with war crimes or any of our leaders go to prison? Lots of civilians have died in wars, and just because the USA just supplies terrorist groups to fight does not mean we are not responsible at all for the civilian deaths in my mind.

But I still am an American and will support our troupes, but it does not mean I am in agreement with some of the people who are running the military if they are warmongers.

a reply to: rickymouse

Its not up to you through rickymouse or me for that matter.

The fact of the matter is that your nation, just like my own is one of the founding members of NATO.

Commitments were made, and obligations must be upheld.

The North Atlantic Treaty was created to provide collective security against the Soviet Union, now the Russian Federation.

And one thing is for sure the subsequent nations that choose to join our defensive organization did so of their own volition.

Its not NATO nations they feared would attempt to take their nations back to something reminiscent of the Warsaw pact via war and invasion but Russia.

As to sides well i think we are both old enough to remember the last iteration of the Cold War, i thought we had gotten past that, to be honest with you.

Seems i was wrong but i know which side my bread is buttered also.

And that's NATO side up.

originally posted by: rickymouse

I can guarantee you one thing, if the USA did get into a war, civilians on the other side would die too.

I would hope the US didn’t carpet bomb like Rassia.

originally posted by: rickymouse

I choose not to take sides in a war between two countries that have governments I am not in align with.

Especially if both seem as corrupt as the other.