This is why abortion, particularly late term abortion, is so important to the democrats

a reply to: Sookiechacha

If you think women have it so terrible here then you might want to get out more.
Go over the border and check out the world a bit.
It’s an eye opener.
Perspective change will do you good.
Nothing bad can come from switching your victim mentality to an attitude of gratitude.
You’ll realize in America you can leave the kitchen and sandwich making as you please.

originally posted by: fringeofthefringe

Anything that affects ALL equally should be Federal.

a reply to: Annee

Congress could make a law but they haven't. Congress is unable to come together on this issue, for many years it has been a campaign issue just words to gin up their base but now the abortion issue has been pushed to the states and will be in the peoples hands. This is the best outcome possible.

Yes — I know it’s all political.

But some states are making laws without the people.

They know every time it goes up for vote — by the people — pro-choice wins.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
Frogs is correct.

Already addressed that.
What early saints said went along with what the Church thought at that time.
As the Church grew in understanding, it's position changed.
SO WHAT?

a reply to: mysterioustranger

You use medical terminology.
I"m using a term that is accurate as well.
The unborn child is just that ... a child.
Doesn't matter what state he or she is in.
That's a child growing and waiting to be born.

a reply to: FlyersFan

God changed? The mechanics of ensoulment changed? The early Church fathers were wrong all along?

Sounds to me like these guys are just making stuff up and they go along. Creating doctrine to support their bias. Just like this Supreme Court.

originally posted by: fringeofthefringe

What? She can choose in some, but it's an illegal choice in others? Legal in some, ill-legal in others?

a reply to: mysterioustranger

Point is each state is different, that is a great feature of the United States of America.

Then state laws should only apply to what’s different in their state. Such as difference in weather — geographically different landscapes — etc.

Woman’s autonomy should not be controlled by the whims of where they live.

That’s just archaic and stupid.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
God changed?

That's not what I said. You only hear what you want to hear.

I said that the early church saints said what the church thought to be true. Then as the church grew in wisdom it's positions changed. Much as a child goes to kindergarten to learn math and learns how to add and subtract, but then later when she's in high school she learns algebra and physics. The math hasn't changed, just the understanding of it grows deeper.

I'm sure that will fly right over your head and you won't be able to grasp that.

OFFICIAL THREAD REDIRECT EVERYBODY DROP EVERYTHING just kidding.

The left is trying to accomplish liberation and DEI by trying to gain telepathic bonds with as many like minded people as possible.

They are trying to go about it by the Sexual Revolution (and perhaps by deliberately provoking conservatives to anger which they may feel is also a sin and may also produce a rapport.)

Part of the support for abortion rights may be due to the legend that it is possible to cause pregnancy through rapport even without the parents having met one another or having any contact at all. Liberals call the children "jackfruit."

The legend is that the children are often not interested in very much and are a little mixed up. Perhaps liberals are afraid that if they are not allowed to abort the children which result from rapport, they will simply wind up with children to raise who will sap the extra success the liberals hope to glean by living in rapport so everyone would think they were smart and worthy of high pay and prestige and responsibility. If they pray and meditate so no one could get them pregs, then they won't get no test answers.

Perhaps, if true, the legend would explain terrorists. It is said the 9/11 hijackers could barely be taught to hold the planes steady, yet they thought their religious convictions were the solution to all their problems and gave them the right to kill tens of thousands. (The towers were partially empty that day.)

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Creating doctrine to support their bias. Just like this Supreme Court.

Roe v Wade prime example of that 👍

This Supreme Court you’re probably mistaken.
This Supreme Court has fixed more than most of the others.

a reply to: FlyersFan

I said that the early church saints said what the church thought to be true.

Church doctrine is/was based on what they said, what was (supposedly) divinely revealed to them.

Then as the church grew in wisdom it's positions changed.

Not "The Church", one Pope changed the Church's position by edict. Do you believe Pope Pius IX received a divine revelation in which God changed His mind, in 1869, on ensoulment and when it happens? Or did Jerome, Augustine, et al, just mishear God's revelations?

What else did they get wrong?

a reply to: Solvedit

The left is trying to accomplish liberation and DEI by trying to gain telepathic bonds with as many like minded people as possible.

No, that's not it.

Part of the support for abortion rights may be due to the legend that it is possible to cause pregnancy through rapport even without the parents having met one another or having any contact at all. Liberals call the children "jackfruit."

Is that what happen to Mary? Was Jesus "jackfruit"?

a reply to: Vermilion

Dobbs is a better example of that...claiming a 16th century witch trial judge's misogynous musings as precedent for oppressing women...

Then there's Citizens United, also a good example of creating doctrine to support bias, declaring corporations are people and money is free speech.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

originally posted by: EyeoftheHurricane

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: FlyersFan

Frogs is correct.

The Catholic Church’s current position on abortion is 144 years old. In the 1869 document Apostolicae Sedis, Pope Pius IX declared the penalty of excommunication for abortions at any stage of pregnancy. Up to then Catholic teaching was that no homicide was involved if abortion took place before the foetus was infused with a soul, known as “ensoulment”.

Separate consciousness
This was believed to occur at "quickening", when the mother detected the child move for the first time in her womb. It indicated a separate consciousness.

In 1591, Pope Gregory XIV determined it took place at 166 days of pregnancy, almost 24 weeks. That is the current legal limit for abortion in the UK. It was Catholic Church teaching until 1869.

Among those who held a different view on abortion to that of the Catholic Church now are some of its most eminent thinkers.

These include at least three of the 33 Catholic Church “super saints” – Jerome, Augustine and Aquinas – all of them “Doctors of the Church”. Were one to follow the logic of some in the church today, they should be excommunicated.

www.irishtimes.com...

So Church super saints were aligned with the doctrine of the Roe ruling, all along! Imagine that!

Alito is so full of it!

Thanks to Marxist leftist progressive infiltration in the church

When did that happen? in 1869?

Bella Dodd in the 30’s as I posted, personally was responsible for placing 1000 or more communists into the Catholic priesthood.
Betty Friedan was also a communist activist as a feminist, and wrote the infamous book, “The Feminine Mystique.” She prompted women to leave the home en masse and join the work force as a way of breaking the family unit, one major goal of the Communist Manifesto authored by Karl Marx and Engels.
Remember, the Bolshevik Revolution happened in the beginning of the 20th century.
Again from the same article

Paul Kengor: Well, there’s so many. I got to be careful. I could probably spend a lot of time going through all of them. But one thing that’s really clear, she wanted to have a family. She really longed for a family, A communist manifesto literally says, people won’t believe this. You could look it up. Abolition of the family, exclamation mark. Even the most radical flare up at this infamous proposal of the communists. So they’re not just talking about abolishing private property and capital and entire societies and human nature, but they even want to abolish the family on top of religion. And she said, “I wanted to have a family, but the comrades dissuaded me.” She longed for children. She came from a family of like 10 children in Italy, but they told her no. That was one thing. Hitler-Stalin Pact.

crisismagazine.com...
So that’s really what I meant in relation to your post and the thread, the the communist party deliberately infiltrated the Catholic Church to attack the family unit and the family values as well as the Church’s doctrine of pro life. And during the Bolshevik Revolution and subsequent years there was a direct attack on the Russian Orthodox Church, according to the same article, and we know that Marx hated religion and the communist party hated religion as the “opiate of the masses.” They hated religion and they hated the family, wanted to eradicate the family, and today not only do they promote abortion, but promote support for abortion in the church.
That is what I meant.
In fact, I think the Church’s position on abortion really had nothing to do with actually the position of Pius….Which I think related more to the concept of reincarnation, or as Origen conceptualized as “the pre-existence of the soul”, so if the Church of Rome can anathemetize Origen on those grounds, then it could also be a convenient excuse for not condemning abortion as murder (of a soul in the womb).
Sorry, I obviously had to connect the dots for you.

But some states are making laws without the people.

a reply to: Annee

I know how you feel, the federal government has been doing the same for nearly 4 years under Biden/Harris.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Dobbs was based and I agree with you about citizens united being garbage but that wasn’t exactly this Supreme Court.

originally posted by: fringeofthefringe

But some states are making laws without the people.

a reply to: Annee

I know how you feel, the federal government has been doing the same for nearly 4 years under Biden/Harris.

Cheap shot?

Nothing to do with previous administrations?

a reply to: fringeofthefringe

Thank you! Well said.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Ma'am? Succinctly well put. Thank you. Agreed

a reply to: Annee

Dear...only thing I know...hippie kid to rocker, medical ad-infinitum?

I am not a woman. And women...should have their rights..to themselves.

Crap! We're guys! Have WAY too much respect for women all these years.

Decisions are theirs alone.🫡✌️

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

Is that what happen to Mary? Was Jesus "jackfruit"?

I am sorry if I offended your liberal sensibilities so much that you have to randomly, egregiously bad mouth other peoples' religion.