This is why abortion, particularly late term abortion, is so important to the democrats

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: wAnchorofCarp
a reply to: Annee

You do.

To lie or not to lie......

You do not have to be pro-abortion to support Right of Choice.

What if you're anti-abortion? The "Right of Choice" goes right out the window right? ✅

Is that on topic?

Someone who does not support abortion can still support Right if Choice.

Not if they're morally against abortion. 😉

a reply to: fringeofthefringe

Treasonous Trump said yesterday...he didn't think abortion is a big issue anymore!
Holy....!

I mean...it's NOT? How many has Disco Don paid for in his time?

The Dems...and Him...both whacked...Ladies? Let no one...man, person, country...tell you want to do...with you!

✌️

Treasonous Trump said yesterday...he didn't think abortion is a big issue anymore!
Holy....!

a reply to: mysterioustranger

Meaning the abortion issue is now a states rights issue, not a presidential campaign issue. C'mon man. The SCOTUS correctly ruled that abortion is not enumerated in the constitution, it is not a right. Abortion is not a federal issue, it is a states rights issue and in the hands of the people...where it should be. So when Trump said, he didn't think abortion is a big issue anymore he meant as it is related to the presidential campaign.

originally posted by: fringeofthefringe

Treasonous Trump said yesterday...he didn't think abortion is a big issue anymore!
Holy....!

a reply to: mysterioustranger

Meaning the abortion issue is now a states rights issue, not a presidential campaign issue. C'mon man. The SCOTUS correctly ruled that abortion is not enumerated in the constitution, it is not a right. Abortion is not a federal issue, it is a states rights issue and in the hands of the people...where it should be. So when Trump said, he didn't think abortion is a big issue anymore he meant as it is related to the presidential campaign.

Oh YAY!

Us women are now controlled by imaginary borders.

Anything that affects ALL equally should be Federal.

I understand how you can be against abortion personally, but support pro-choice.

My personal choice is (barring abnormality) if you haven't decided by 4 months you have committed. But it's usually only a position I'd share if asked for an opinion. Otherwise, I DONT GET TO DECIDE THAT FOR ANYONE ELSE.

As far as another woman's business is concerned; I equally support her right to call it reprehensible child slaughter as another woman jokingly names it Aborto. Even choices that personally disturb me, like post viability abortions.

IMO, to be pro choice I can't draw my line for others and hold it with consistency. It's like "to each her own" + my head in the sand like an ostrich avoiding seeing the Maryland woman "killing her viable unborn child" at 7½ months for reasons not my business. Plus, that state voted to not impose limits. States rights are like that sometimes.

It's a hellbound conundrum.

I had made peace with states rights on this issue until the moment the writer of the Project 2025 Foreward was named Trump's VP. Then it became telegraphed intent. It makes me think a national ban is the real goal and it just needed the pesky constitutional protection out of the way first. Voting majority be damned.

a reply to: Degradation33

You said what a lot of us feel very succinctly. Thank you.

originally posted by: Annee
Catholic nun and medical doctor Teresa Forcades says women should make their own abortion decisions.

Then she's a bad catholic and a bad nun.
Technically she's excommunicated because she is in public pushing abortion

a reply to: FlyersFan

But the thing is. One man. One pope determined this 140 years ago. Not for a scientific reason. Previous Saints, Jerome, Augustine and Aquinas all taught it was OK until the "quickening" usually 24 weeks.

Pope Pius declared in the mid 1850s that the new dogma of the church would be the "immaculate conception". That Jesus was born to a woman without original sin. That Mary had been free from sin “in the first instant of her conception”. He reinforced that new dogma for the church for the next 15 years until he banned abortion based on his determination of Mary.

If an embryo or not fully formed fetus, under 21 weeks or so has a soul, why does the church not require a baptism or funeral rites?

The church has not excommunicated the Saints mentioned above either.

And the non Catholic evangelicals as recently as the late 60s refused to characterize abortion as sinful, citing “individual health, family welfare, and social responsibility” as justifications for ending a pregnancy.

I've posted before how this became a wedge issue and it's currently linked in another thread. It had nothing to do with abortion but one of the founders of the Heritage Foundation Paul Weyrich, his letter to evangelicals who were upset the govt would no longer allow tax exemptions for segregated Christian schools and they knew politically even with their influence and closeness to politicians they could not get their base to rally around racism. They picked abortion as the perfect issue to rally the base around to their choices of candidates.

It was never about any actual belief of "pro-life". It was about political power.

originally posted by: frogs453
a reply to: FlyersFan

But the thing is. One man. One pope determined this 140 years ago. Not for a scientific reason. Previous Saints, Jerome, Augustine and Aquinas all taught it was OK until the "quickening" usually 24 weeks.

Pope Pius declared in the mid 1850s that the new dogma of the church would be the "immaculate conception". That Jesus was born to a woman without original sin. That Mary had been free from sin “in the first instant of her conception”. He reinforced that new dogma for the church for the next 15 years until he banned abortion based on his determination of Mary.

If an embryo or not fully formed fetus, under 21 weeks or so has a soul, why does the church not require a baptism or funeral rites?

The church has not excommunicated the Saints mentioned above either.

And the non Catholic evangelicals as recently as the late 60s refused to characterize abortion as sinful, citing “individual health, family welfare, and social responsibility” as justifications for ending a pregnancy.

I've posted before how this became a wedge issue and it's currently linked in another thread. It had nothing to do with abortion but one of the founders of the Heritage Foundation Paul Weyrich, his letter to evangelicals who were upset the govt would no longer allow tax exemptions for segregated Christian schools and they knew politically even with their influence and closeness to politicians they could not get their base to rally around racism. They picked abortion as the perfect issue to rally the base around to their choices of candidates.

It was never about any actual belief of "pro-life". It was about political power.

so that's why I don't like the idea of killing kids? Wow, learn new things all the time. And I don't even do "church". Go figure.

originally posted by: frogs453
If an embryo or not fully formed fetus, under 21 weeks or so has a soul, why does the church not require a baptism or funeral rites?

Actually, if a child is lost in miscarriage, the church encourages people to name them and have mass said for them. Catholic cemeteries many times have special sections for miscarried children.

National Catholic Register

The Church offers various liturgical rites in the wake of miscarriage, but priests and laity alike are often confused about what should be done after miscarriage, according to a survey reported by the Archdiocese of Boston.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that the Church entrusts unbaptized children, including miscarried babies, to the “great mercy of God” that “allow[s] us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without baptism” (1261).

The “Blessing of Parents After a Miscarriage or Stillbirth” is provided by the Church “to assist the parents in their grief and console them with the blessing of God.” The Order of Christian Funerals contains “Funeral Rites for Children,” with adaptations for children who died before receiving baptism. Canon 1183.2 of the Code of Canon Law empowers the local ordinary to permit children who died before baptism to receive ecclesiastical funerals with these adaptations.

The church has not excommunicated the Saints mentioned above either.

Why would the church excommunicate saints when they were just speaking on what they knew at the time to be true. That doesn't make sense. I have not seen writings by Jerome, Augustine and Aquinas stating that it was okay to kill unborn children before a certain age in the womb. So I can't comment on that assertion.

originally posted by: frogs453
One man. One pope determined this 140 years ago. Not for a scientific reason.

The Catholic belief that the soul enters the body at conception comes from scripture. It comes from the part of scripture in which the story talks about Mary, who is newly pregnant, goes to visit her cousin Elizabeth, who is about six months pregnant with John the Baptiser. The baby John, in the womb, 'leapt for joy' when Mary and unborn baby Jesus entered the room. This means that John, who was 6 months old in the womb, was aware of Jesus, who was new in the womb. Both unborn babies ... one at 6 months of age in the womb and the other newly in the womb ... were really there totally ... body and soul.

The church doesn't just base it's beliefs on science. It bases it's beliefs on faith and on scripture. That's where the Catholic belief that the soul enters the body at conception comes from. Scripture. Jesus Himself being fully present in the womb at conception and John, also in the womb, being aware of Jesus being fully present.

Anything that affects ALL equally should be Federal.

a reply to: Annee

Congress could make a law but they haven't. Congress is unable to come together on this issue, for many years it has been a campaign issue just words to gin up their base but now the abortion issue has been pushed to the states and will be in the peoples hands. This is the best outcome possible.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Frogs is correct.

The Catholic Church’s current position on abortion is 144 years old. In the 1869 document Apostolicae Sedis, Pope Pius IX declared the penalty of excommunication for abortions at any stage of pregnancy. Up to then Catholic teaching was that no homicide was involved if abortion took place before the foetus was infused with a soul, known as “ensoulment”.

Separate consciousness
This was believed to occur at "quickening", when the mother detected the child move for the first time in her womb. It indicated a separate consciousness.

In 1591, Pope Gregory XIV determined it took place at 166 days of pregnancy, almost 24 weeks. That is the current legal limit for abortion in the UK. It was Catholic Church teaching until 1869.

Among those who held a different view on abortion to that of the Catholic Church now are some of its most eminent thinkers.

These include at least three of the 33 Catholic Church “super saints” – Jerome, Augustine and Aquinas – all of them “Doctors of the Church”. Were one to follow the logic of some in the church today, they should be excommunicated.

www.irishtimes.com...

So Church super saints were aligned with the doctrine of the Roe ruling, all along! Imagine that!

Alito is so full of it!

a reply to: FlyersFan

You-" miscarried children". It is a mis-carried "fetus"... not yet a born "child"...

As in referring to a 3 months, 1st trimester miscarriage...as a "child".

I don't think that defines as a "child".? But...whom am I to say? Just speaking medically.....

a reply to: fringeofthefringe

You n me get that....but that statement Demented Donny made....caused a ruckus the other day.

My only personal addition? A woman's right...and let each state decide....but that's really against the basic premise of a woman's right to choose.

What? She can choose in some, but it's an illegal choice in others? Legal in some, ill-legal in others?

Somehow...that's not so fair either...but, then again...I'm a guy.

a reply to: Annee

The fact that you think borders are imaginary says a lot.

Good thing you don't get involved with politics and no one knows what your politics are. /s. LOL

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: fringeofthefringe

Treasonous Trump said yesterday...he didn't think abortion is a big issue anymore!
Holy....!

a reply to: mysterioustranger

Meaning the abortion issue is now a states rights issue, not a presidential campaign issue. C'mon man. The SCOTUS correctly ruled that abortion is not enumerated in the constitution, it is not a right. Abortion is not a federal issue, it is a states rights issue and in the hands of the people...where it should be. So when Trump said, he didn't think abortion is a big issue anymore he meant as it is related to the presidential campaign.

Oh YAY!

Us women are now controlled by imaginary borders.

Anything that affects ALL equally should be Federal.

Sorry, state borders are not imaginary. You just happen to believe in an overreaching federal gov which is par for the course from the left

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: FlyersFan

Frogs is correct.

The Catholic Church’s current position on abortion is 144 years old. In the 1869 document Apostolicae Sedis, Pope Pius IX declared the penalty of excommunication for abortions at any stage of pregnancy. Up to then Catholic teaching was that no homicide was involved if abortion took place before the foetus was infused with a soul, known as “ensoulment”.

Separate consciousness
This was believed to occur at "quickening", when the mother detected the child move for the first time in her womb. It indicated a separate consciousness.

In 1591, Pope Gregory XIV determined it took place at 166 days of pregnancy, almost 24 weeks. That is the current legal limit for abortion in the UK. It was Catholic Church teaching until 1869.

Among those who held a different view on abortion to that of the Catholic Church now are some of its most eminent thinkers.

These include at least three of the 33 Catholic Church “super saints” – Jerome, Augustine and Aquinas – all of them “Doctors of the Church”. Were one to follow the logic of some in the church today, they should be excommunicated.

www.irishtimes.com...

So Church super saints were aligned with the doctrine of the Roe ruling, all along! Imagine that!

Alito is so full of it!

Thanks to Marxist leftist progressive infiltration in the church
crisismagazine.com...

And at this point Bella Dodd’s already famous. She’s kind of like the female version of Whittaker Chambers. I mean, she was a really big deal, the most famous, most frequently testifying before Congress and the Senate under sworn testimony, female ex-communist in the United States. So she’s sitting there with Dietrich and Alice, and Dietrich said, “You know, I just have this feeling like the church has been infiltrated.” And Bella Dodd said, “You feel it? I know it.” And he said, “What do you mean?” And then she told them, she said, “When I was organizing for the Communist Party back in the 1930s, I helped place over a thousand communist men in Catholic seminaries.” So she said that to Alice and to Dietrich and Alice is on the record,

a reply to: 5thHead

Maybe "invisible" is a better word? Or "artificial"?
Borders are dreamt up lines, that only exist on pieces of paper.

It's unconscionable that a woman's rights to her own body, her autotomic identity and class status, her liberties, all change from one state to another.

There are no such legal standards that apply only to men.

originally posted by: EyeoftheHurricane

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: FlyersFan

Frogs is correct.

The Catholic Church’s current position on abortion is 144 years old. In the 1869 document Apostolicae Sedis, Pope Pius IX declared the penalty of excommunication for abortions at any stage of pregnancy. Up to then Catholic teaching was that no homicide was involved if abortion took place before the foetus was infused with a soul, known as “ensoulment”.

Separate consciousness
This was believed to occur at "quickening", when the mother detected the child move for the first time in her womb. It indicated a separate consciousness.

In 1591, Pope Gregory XIV determined it took place at 166 days of pregnancy, almost 24 weeks. That is the current legal limit for abortion in the UK. It was Catholic Church teaching until 1869.

Among those who held a different view on abortion to that of the Catholic Church now are some of its most eminent thinkers.

These include at least three of the 33 Catholic Church “super saints” – Jerome, Augustine and Aquinas – all of them “Doctors of the Church”. Were one to follow the logic of some in the church today, they should be excommunicated.

www.irishtimes.com...

So Church super saints were aligned with the doctrine of the Roe ruling, all along! Imagine that!

Alito is so full of it!

Thanks to Marxist leftist progressive infiltration in the church

When did that happen? in 1869?

What? She can choose in some, but it's an illegal choice in others? Legal in some, ill-legal in others?

a reply to: mysterioustranger

Each of the 50 states have their own constitution, their own state laws and even local laws that may differ from other states. Like marijuana laws, alcohol laws some states and cities even have sanctuary designations for illegal aliens. Govenors were able to shut down schools and in some states schools were left open. The federal government does not and should not have the power to tell states what to do but the federal government often uses their ability of the withholding of federal aid but iI digress. Point is each state is different, that is a great feature of the United States of America.