June 27 Presidential Debate livestream

a reply to: UKTruth

The lies Trump choose to tell are presented in the article and fact check.

As to Biden, he was a complete disaster indeed.

Be stupid to argue otherwise.

Hence i will ask once again what is it you imagine they had him hopped up on?

a reply to: Tarzan007

Trump did sneak a "Brandon" reference in on Biden...right upside his head. It was quick, and you had to be paying attention to see it, but he got one in.

Aside from the generally dismal performance of Biden just in terms of cadence, there were (I think) two pivotal moments which did Biden in. Ironically, one of them was out of Biden's own mouth. These were:

1. When Biden said... "People used to say I was the youngest politician, and now people are saying I'm the oldest politician" Despite his attempt at being funny, this iced him as a career politician who has done nothing else his entire career.

2. When Trump said... "I wish Biden had been a better president, I really do. Because I wouldn't be here right now!" That one left a mark. Out of all the things the two candidates said to each other, I don't think another candidate in history has ever said they wished the incumbent had been a better president. That comment left a mark which won't go away anytime soon for Biden.

While the MSM are making a big deal about Trump "lieing" in order to make things not look as bleak for Joe Biden; the truth is that Trump has been telling these "lies" for over 4 years now. Everyone has heard them and everyone expects him to say them. We can argue if they are lies or not; but they simply do not matter anymore to the voting public.

No one last night sat in astonishment and said "oh man that guy is a lier"

Lots of people sat in in astonishment saying "oh man that guy is too old to be president" ... including members of his own party who got on TV to say it.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

My wife watched the whole debate. I just watched bits and pieces. But what I saw wasn't good for Brandon. Even CNN didn't have a lot of good to say about Brandons performance, which is a shocker. He also didn't have a cold, his pupils said what he had.

originally posted by: frogs453
Well, "black jobs" and " the blacks" is trending on Twitter with much confusion,disgust,and hilarity about what is a "black job".


Stating that black people or "the blacks" as he likes to call them work the menial low paying jobs that undocumented people work, such as field work is not sitting well at all. If he thought that would help gain voters, it seems to have backfired.

Again we need age limits on candidates. 65 should be the upper limit.

That was a pretty cringe moment during the debate. The problem is Joe Biden engaged in it as well. Looked like two old white guys arguing over who treats their slaves better.

Unfortunately that's more of a problem for Joe Biden; he just caused a whole lot of his would be voters to stay home in November; just like they did for Hillary Clinton.

originally posted by: cherokeetroy
Seems to be the consensus on social media, this was a setup.

Never underestimate political incompetence.

They’re the same party that ran Hillary (one of the most polarizing figures in American politics), and Biden, the only candidate with no true supporters.

He was literally, by his own admission, supposed to be a four year place holder while they found someone else. Problem is their party is engulfed in an Olympics of sorts on who can lean into some of the most unpopular policies.

This problem isn’t unique to America, the world as a whole is challenging neo liberalism.

Two of the key points for most western countries right now are the economy and immigration. And while I’d argue the right hasn’t done much for the former, there’s only one side willing to push back on the latter.

The western left right now is tone deaf. When you’re down and out it’s best to adopt at least a temporary policy of finding moderates, and I haven’t seen that attempt by a lot of places.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: UKTruth

The lies Trump choose to tell are presented in the article and fact check.

As to Biden, he was a complete disaster indeed.

Be stupid to argue otherwise.

Hence i will ask once again what is it you imagine they had him hopped up on?

I think you need to have a better understanding of what a lie is.
Saying something that is untrue or exaggerated is not automatically a lie - I often see Trumps obvious hyperbole couched as lies.
Lefties like to make lists.

I can tell you what was 100% a lie... Biden repeating the 'very fine people' hoax when just this very week even Democrats have walked away from it and it being mainstream news that Trump actually condemned the Nazi's at Charlottesville.

As for Trump, he looked healthy and sounded lucid and strong.
No reason to suspect he was anything.

Biden was clearly drugged up.
In the end it didn't matter, Trump won the debate by some distance.

a reply to: Dandandat3

It was interesting to see Biden stumble so badly right there.

Trump was talking about the 'black vote' and "Black Americans" referring to the demographic group. Biden turned around responded with "the blacks" referring to African Americans directly as a racial segment, and "black jobs" is if he was speaking directly to them. The "black jobs" comment even raised my eyebrows; that was especially bad. Even though what they were saying was similar, Biden's remarks came off far more negatively, almost racist (not almost, straight-up).

Racial demographics is a very difficult subject under any circumstances, and you have to choose your words very, very, carefully so it's clear you're referring to a demographic and not to the people directly. If you are unable to walk that razor's edge, then you should not weigh in at all. It was an exceptionally well crafted statement by Trump, and I'm sure one carefully rehearsed before hand. Biden had very little maneuvering room to respond to Trump's statement and Trump had him backed into a corner. You could see the Biden team's coaching in Biden's response (i.e. be aggressive, fight, fight, fight), and so Biden did, but his words came out all wrong. At this point it was clear Trump had Biden on the ropes, and was repeatedly delivering the infamous "Rope-a-dope-dope" on Biden. He was finished.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: Dandandat3

It was interesting to see Biden stumble so badly right there.

Trump was talking about the 'black vote' and "Black Americans" referring to the demographic group. Biden turned around responded with "the blacks" referring to African Americans directly as a racial segment, and "black jobs" is if he was speaking directly to them. The "black jobs" comment even raised my eyebrows; that was especially bad. Even though what they were saying was similar, Biden's remarks came off far more negatively, almost racist (not almost, straight-up).

That is a very difficult subject under any circumstances, and you have to choose your words carefully so it's clear you're referring to a demographic and not to the people directly. If you are unable to walk that razor's edge, then you should not weigh in at all. It was an exceptionally well crafted statement by Trump, and I'm sure one carefully rehearsed before hand. Biden had very little maneuvering room to respond to Trump's statement and Trump had him backed into a corner. You could see the Biden team's coaching in Biden's response (i.e. be aggressive, fight, fight, fight), and so Biden did, but his words came out all wrong. At this point it was clear Trump had Biden on the ropes, and was repeatedly delivering the "Rope-a-dope-dope" on Biden. He was finished.

I noiticed how Trump actually expanded the discussion out to Hispanics too - i thought that was telling. He obviously sees the issue as one not of skin colour, but economic opportunity.

a reply to: UKTruth

I think you need to have a better understanding of what a lie is.
Saying something that is untrue or exaggerated is not a lie - I often see Trumps obvious hyperbole couched as lies.
Lefties like to make lists.

Half-truths, defection, and hyperbole are not much better than lies, again the article i presented you with clearly outlines Trumps falsehoods and lies.

I can tell you what was 100% a lie... Biden repeating the 'very fine people hoax' when just this very week even Democrats have walked away from it and it being mainstream news that Trump actually condemned the Nazi's at Charlottesville.

Really because we plainly all heard Trump claim there were very fine people on both sides.

As for Trump, he looked healthy and sounded lucid and strong.
No reason to suspect he was anything.

Pupil dilation is a sign of drug use UKTruth that's a fact.

Biden was clearly drugged up.
In the end it didn't matter, Trump won the debate by some distance.

Well if you could simply state what that drug is and then recognize the fact that it obviously did not work the way intended that might be nice?

As to who won the debate, i dont disagree.

a reply to: UKTruth

Exactly, I thought that was a good move. Especially after hammering on the illegals issue as hard and as many times as he did. It was a very sharp move to include Hispanics in that demographic. That was a very, very, shrewd move on Trump's part. It also helped take some of the edge off of singling out the black demographic.

Trump was definitely thinking far more clearly than Biden last night, and it was moments like that which clearly demonstrated just how much more clearly he was thinking. He was timing his statements perfectly. That's hard to do in a tense environment like that. Biden was just reacting, he was on his heels the entire debate. I honestly would have felt sorry for Biden if he would have been just an older fellow, and hadn't been such a crooked career politician. It was very clear a couple times when Trump just left him speechless, when Biden would pause for 10 seconds and then respond with the..."How DARE you!...response. It was clear Biden had no rejoinder and his mind was unable to find words. That was a really bad look for Biden.

a reply to: andy06shake

If you are still pushing the 'very fine people' hoax then it is you who are a liar.
Even Snopes are now calling it a lie.

www.snopes.com...
Do better than pushing lies on ATS.

Half-truths, deflection, and hyperbole are indeed annoying, but not lies.
If you really cared much about them, though, you'd not be focused on calling them out selectively.
I am yet to hear a politician NOT engage in half truths , deflection and hyperbole.
Have you made a list for them all - or is it just 'orange man bad'?


I agree that not even a drugged to the eyeballs (literally) Biden could get anywhere near beating Trump in a debate.

a reply to: UKTruth

Again the article you were presented with clearly outlines the lies falsehoods, hyperbole, half-truths, and deflection, Trump choose to punt.

However 4 posts now and you have still failed to answer the simple question you were asked.

What drug is it you imagine Biden was hopped up on?

Because it obviously did not work.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: UKTruth

Again the article you were presented with clearly outlines the lies falsehoods, hyperbole, half-truths, and deflection, Trump choose to punt.

However 4 posts now and you have still failed to answer the simple question you were asked.

What drug is it you imagine Biden was hopped up on?

Because it obviously did not work.

I have agreed with you that even though Biden was drugged up, it didn't work.
How would I know which cocktail of drugs they had him on?
Stupid question.

I am not interested in half-truths and hyperbole - Trump like every other politician does that regularly.
We'd be here for all time if we discussed lists of those for all politicians.
But certainly not giving oxygen to left wing lists of 'lies'.
That is just a coping mechanism from last night already been peddled because the debate was so much in favour of Trump.

I only watched the highlights but it was clear to me that Biden should stand down.

What a shambles.

a reply to: UKTruth

I wish you could simply tell us all what drug that is mate.

Because they dont exist and senility cannot be cured via any drug I've ever heard of.

And i suggest punting the rhetoric that Biden was full of drugs to be a coping mechanism.

If he had done well that is exactly what we would be hearing screamed from the rooftops.

It was not Biden but the drugs he was on.

Anyhoo as I've already suggested Biden did terribly no two ways about it.

Coming back from that debacle is going to be rather a task, if at all possible.

Still a lot that can happen in the time left to come all the same given the caliber of both candidates.

Oh the memes and jokes that will be coming now

I personally hope the MSM circles back and rallies behind Biden. If they keep torpedoing him, all kinds of crazy sh!t could happen, and I think they're starting to realize this. Member Degradation posted several excellent links a couple pages back which go deep into different scenarios, and all of them are bleak. The only viable one I see is for Biden to step back and point the nomination to Harris. Resignation at this point would be almost sure suicide. Harris polls way lower than Biden, and Biden is behind Trump, but it's Biden's only hope. Otherwise he opens up a 3-4 way firefight on the dem ticket and the delegates would be all over the place. Establishing order would be next to impossible unless it was behind Harris at the direction of Biden.

And let's not forget about the campaign funding; it's all Biden's, and no one else's. He can't just donate that money to someone, or all of them equally, the democratic campaign supporters would go crazy! They gave that money to Biden, not some other candidate, and now if it's not Biden then Biden doesn't get to decide who gets that money. It would be chaos.

If there's a silver lining in the Harris cloud it is that Harris can't pick Newsom, else they lose California, and the dems can't afford to lose California. So, that option is out. But Harris can't beat Trump, and Harris is danger off the scale as president, so the only hope in the Harris angle is a strong VP, but who? Whitmer is crazy, Newsom is out, so who does this leave? I don't know enough about Moore and Shapiro, but that alone says it all...nobody else does either, and we're talking president and vice president of the US here, not the Rotary Club! Harris would almost have to announce publicly that she would step down as president (as crazy and bizarre as that sounds), and that would then mean there would need to be a 3rd person in the mix (Harris, a 2nd one to move from VP to president, and a 3rd to move into the vacated VP slot).

The democrats are in deep, deep, trouble today. They may not be able to figure their way out of this one.

Unprecedented times for sure!

a reply to: UKTruth

I have agreed with you that even though Biden was drugged up, it didn't work.

Ah, it’s clear even after he had one of the worst public performances in his career?

How would I know which cocktail of drugs they had him on?

Yet you’re fully comfortable speaking in absolutes that he was.

Weird hill to die on when he got murdered.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Whichever way, the US is in deep....trouble.