Rudy Giuliani ordered to pay $150 million in defamation case

a reply to: Threadbarer

Facist Asshats Fondle Obama? Is that your motto now?

3 reasons. 3 REAL reasons that he deserves to 'die penniless and broken'. Guiliani was knighted. HIs accolades are incredible. But since he accussed people of something, which is a 1st amendment right, he owes 150 million?

According to your logic, if I did not like what you posted in a chat room I could say it lead to me being swatted and chased by 4 Chan renegades to the point of a mental break. I would need to show no real proof just make it about an old white guy who likes Donald Trump who said some things about women of color.

a reply to: JinMI

Nah...I am just sick of capitulation to these asshats...

a reply to: matafuchs

Thanks to Trump's psychotic followers those women can never live a normal life from now on. So why should Rudy be allowed to live comfortably?

a reply to: Threadbarer

Please. Don't even. If you saw them on the street you would have idea who they are.

They are also part of Jack Smiths case....why?

a reply to: matafuchs

No I wouldn't recognize them. But I'm not a psycho that sends them regular death threats and knows their addresses.

a reply to: Threadbarer

What does that have to do with anything? You really cannot give a solid reason as to why this should happen. Sad.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: Threadbarer

What does that have to do with anything? You really cannot give a solid reason as to why this should happen. Sad.

I'll give you a solid reason why this needs to happen. You don't have to agree with it of course.

Rudy has (or had) rich Trump supporters paying his legal bills. There is a lot of money at stake here for getting Trump back into office. These criminals acted with reckless disregard for the law and the Constitution because they thought they had enough money behind them to get away with it. So, future Rudys and Sydneys and Donalds and Flynns need to know that they can't get away with violating the law.

Maliciously and falsely accusing a private citizen, even a government employee, of fraud and otherwise harassing them is illegal. It may not be a crime but it certainly exposes them to civil penalties and that is what we are seeing here. When the defendant has potential access to hundreds of millions of dollars, the penalty must be at least that to deter future bad actors from doing the same. That's also why the Alex Jones judgement was so high and the courts have upheld it. Rudy knew he was making false statements. His career should be over and he should be sleeping in homeless shelters and eating in soup kitchens for the rest of his life.

Those of you maligning these women and other private citizens on here should realize that you can be traced and those women can sue you for your statements. No matter how careful you think you are being it is not that hard to get a court order to compel the company that hosts this site to disclose your IP. It doesn't take law enforcement, it just takes a subpoena.

a reply to: liberalskeptic

OK. So you agree with the comment that a penalty like this will stop further issues. It is threatening people. You are ok with the courts handing out judgements like that.

He never caved though did he. Because he knows, deep down, he is right. They know what they did.

I do have to ask though.....

Maliciously and falsely accusing a private citizen, even a government employee, of fraud and otherwise harassing them is illegal. It may not be a crime but it certainly exposes them to civil penalties and that is what we are seeing here.

How come this doesn't apply to Trump? Every pundit from late night TV to the MSM News to morning TV to rap stars making videos about killing him and people making a Broadway play about killing him or a comedienne holding a bloody head. All cool because Orange Man Bad.

142.195.152.66 come get it....

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: liberalskeptic

OK. So you agree with the comment that a penalty like this will stop further issues. It is threatening people. You are ok with the courts handing out judgements like that.

He never caved though did he. Because he knows, deep down, he is right. They know what they did.

I do have to ask though.....

Maliciously and falsely accusing a private citizen, even a government employee, of fraud and otherwise harassing them is illegal. It may not be a crime but it certainly exposes them to civil penalties and that is what we are seeing here.

How come this doesn't apply to Trump? Every pundit from late night TV to the MSM News to morning TV to rap stars making videos about killing him and people making a Broadway play about killing him or a comedienne holding a bloody head. All cool because Orange Man Bad.

142.195.152.66 come get it....

Actually, I do think the judgement is excessive.

Why doesn't "it" apply to Trump? He is a public figure. You can bash him, Joe Biden, Hillary, members of Congress, and other public figures all you want, falsely and maliciously in most cases.

I don't need or want your IP, just shocked how reckless people are being on here when there are two sue-happy ladies watching. I saw it happen on another forum a few years ago (I was moderator). Some folks were disparaging a product and suddenly a few weeks later several people reported receiving cease and desist letters from a law firm representing the manufacturer. Was just providing some friendly advice. Maybe it works differently in Canada.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: liberalskeptic

OK. So you agree with the comment that a penalty like this will stop further issues. It is threatening people. You are ok with the courts handing out judgements like that.

Our entire justice system is about deterrence. That's why we have punitive damages, to punish, just like we have jail time to punish in criminal cases. Relatively little of the award was for actual damages. They each got about $16.5 million for reputation damage and $20 million for emotional distress. The rest was punitive damages.

I think the damages for reputation damage and emotional distress are high but I'm ok with $75 million in punitive damages to deter future politicians from thinking they can ignore the law.

ETA: The courts did not determine the damages. The jury did. I think there is a chance the amount may be reduced but I doubt it. The judge ordered Giuliani to pay the damages immediately. That would be unlikely if the judge was inclined to reduce the amount. I would also point out that even though Rudy says he will appeal, the appeals court will look at the record for judicial error. Since Rudy admitted to knowingly making false statements with malice, I think overturning the verdict is unlikely. Appeals courts may reduce the amount but that is usually done by the trial court.

a reply to: liberalskeptic

I still think it is excessive and will not deter it will create more cases to tie up the courts IMO. Appreciate the conversation.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: Threadbarer
But since he accussed people of something, which is a 1st amendment right, he owes 150 million?

It absolutely is NOT a 1st Amendment right to falsely accuse someone of anything or to make false statements about them. Have you ever heard of slander and libel?

originally posted by: Mahogani
What a fall of the American Mayor. And for what? What was he going to achieve with those lies?

First he loses his license to practice law, now a penalty he'll never be able to pay. He already owes millions to the lawyers who represented him in all these cases, and they have already filed lawsuits against him for the money he owes them.

Free speech is protected. Lying and attacking people with those lies is not protected speech. We have other examples.

Giuliani - $149 million
Fox News - $787 million
Alex Jones - $1.5 billion

While I agree with you, I think the biggest outcome of all this is that this highly risky plot to overturn the election, or if you prefer, to legally prove Trump won, failed completely and spectacularly. Trump is not president and most of his high level supporters are facing prison time or large civil suits. Even if they win they will have spent huge amounts on lawyers.

Trump has no power to pardon or anything else for that matter. And he burned a lot of people including Giuliani. So let's say he does get re-elected (a horrifying thought but let's say it happens) no one is going to stick their neck out for him. Sure there will be a lot of spineless republicans that will support him so they themselves get re-elected. But who is going to want to sacrifice their career for him after he has demonstrated that he'll kick you to the curb when you are no longer useful to him and find yourself in hot water for what you did for him?

originally posted by: WingDingLuey
Appeals Courts will have a field day with all of these 😀

No they won't. He's a lawyer who admitted guilt with knowledge of the law. They only consider errors by the trial judge. The most an appeals court will do is tell the trial judge to reconsider the damages. So maybe Giuliani will only have to pay $146 million. Of course he could appeal again and spend $2 million to get the judgement reduced to $145 million. It's a losing game for him.

Seriously, what grounds does he have to appeal his guilty verdict? I'm open minded but he admitted to guilt. He is a very experienced lawyer. Please tell me how he can win on appeal.

I fully agree that the amount is excessive and the reputational damage can hardly be $16.5 million (on average) and the emotional is excessive at $20 million. But that's the least of his worries. Let's say the actual damages are reduced by 90%.
Courts rarely reduce jury's punitive damages. Rudy is screwed. Trump could bail him out but we're about to witness Trump's total lack of character as he watches his fall guy fall in the gutter.

What do you all think of Trump's character when he has (supposedly) billions but let's his guy die broke?

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: liberalskeptic

Appreciate the conversation.

I appreciate respectable conversation without name-calling as well. I have my opinions. Others have theirs. I'm open-minded and despite my username, moderate not liberal. I'd probably be a Goldwater Republican or maybe a Reagan Republican. But I'm completely disgusted with the Trump party.

If you are pro-Trump, I respect your opinion and your right to have it. But I will also immediately conclude you are an uneducated rural idiot based on the science. If you choose to self identify that way, I'm fine with that.

Just asking....did Rudy present his election fraud evidence? Did he tick-tock that kraken out in the trial?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus
Nah, he said he couldn't wait of course and was going to present it. He declined to testify the morning he was supposed to.

Apparently the Kracken is still lurking somewhere. Any day now I'm sure though!

a reply to: frogs453

Wait...what? He didn't present all his election fraud evidence at a trial revolving around claims of election fraud? This is really odd if you ask me. I wonder why he didn't present all his damning evidence.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

The only logical thing is that it is so very damning that it must never see the light of day. Remember the first Indiana Jones movie? I think Rudy is going to store it with that Ark of the Covenant.

Or Rudy is just drunk,full of hair dye, and was just trying to run with Trump's claims and really has no proof.

I like option 1. More exciting.