Belgian unions refuse handling arms shipments for Israel-Hamas conflict

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Kurokage

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: quintessentone

It's BIG business worldwide, selling weapons including the U.S. They are making money hand over fist and we wonder why the war machine will never stop.

I agree, so a few small ports trying not to send a few boxes isn't going to do anything, but if thats the Belgian unions stance then good for them.

They may seem like small potatoes to you but factions like the Houthis are taking cargo ships from the Red Sea and they are reported to be a force to be reckoned with.

But again, these are islamic terrorist just like Hamas, who would love to see the end of western culture.

The Houthis of Yemen are part of the Arab League and we can label the entire Arab League as per what we deem to be terrorists acts, they don't consider what they do to be terrorist acts as in taking Israeli ships, it's for a greater cause that being to stop the escalation of regional war.

Members of the Arab League are a mix of different Islam religions and extremists as well. Labelling them all as terrorists does not show the reality in any sense what needs to be looked at is what are they fighting for? freedom? land conquest? war for security issues? That label can take on other labels depending on which side of the fence you are on.

Remember white supremacists are labelled as the most dangerous terrorists as per Biden, so again it depends on the acts and what they are fighting for. Also what some American soldiers did in Vietnam I'd consider to be terrorist acts but yet we don't label them as terrorist, see how that works?

From 2021
Yemen war: US to designate Houthi rebels as terrorist organisation

The US plans to designate Yemen's rebel Houthi movement as a terrorist group, despite warnings that it may threaten aid operations in the war-torn country.

From 2022
UK plan to label Houthis as terrorists risks disaster in Yemen, aid bodies warn

The proposal also has the strong support of some Gulf states, especially Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. Saudi oil installations and civilian targets have been hit by Houthi missiles, while the UAE was hit by Houthi-fired missiles in January.

See how that works?

No matter how you try to play it, Hamas is a terrorist organisation who attacked, killed and kindnapped more than 1400 innocent people without justification.
If the Belgian Unions believe weapons are being transported through their ports and don't want to handle them, that's their decision. It's just a shame that there doesn't seem to be much evidence/proof as of yet of that actually happening other than hearsay?

a reply to: Kurokage

I absolutely do see how it works and the problem I see is that most here do not understand how our confirmation bias and perhaps flawed ideological beliefs are played upon or manipulated by news media and governments to push their narratives. In addition, most here refuse to learn the history of these two peoples nor International Law which explains what ethnic cleansing, apartheid, occupation and genocide entail.

There is not one universal definition of terrorism.1 This Essay follows (without necessarily endorsing)2 the meaning laid out in the USA PATRIOT Act,3 which defines “terrorism” as violent action that is intended to intimidate or coerce a civil population or influence the government.4 That is, violence in the United States that is meant to inspire fear and is motivated by ideology rather than, say, financial gain.

A. The “Terrorists Are Muslim” Stereotype
Unless you are an old-school first-generation racist, you know it is wrong to judge people more harshly because of their race or ethnicity, yet that is precisely what most of us do. Countless studies have documented how the same performance or behavior is evaluated very differently depending on the race of the actor..

Consequently, when we hear “terrorist,” we unconsciously associate it with all manner of information, including, as it so happens, brown and Muslim perpetrators. Moreover, once people have certain stereotypes in place, confirmation bias
sets in. That is, people tend to notice, process, and remember information in a way that confirms their preexisting beliefs.63 Because of their preexisting stereotypes, the law partners found around six spelling and grammar errors
in black Thomas Meyer’s writing but only around three in white Thomas Meyer’s.64

Confirmation bias also affects memory:65 chances are that, three months later, the partners would remember the errors black Thomas Meyer made and the good points white Thomas Meyer made.

The dehumanization of the Muslim perpetrator happens in an instant. The white Christian perpetrator, on the other hand, always retains his humanity.

As with terrorism, there is not a single definition of propaganda. It may even lack negative connotations,122 though that is not how I use it here. As traditionally understood, especially in relation to demagogic propaganda,123 the speaker and audience are not engaged in an exchange of ideas. Rather, the audience is the speaker’s target, with the speaker talking at his audience, not conversing with them.124 The ultimate goal is to help the speaker, not necessarily the audience.125 For purposes of this discussion, propaganda’s most important characteristic is its manipulativeness.126 While “manipulative” is another contested term, in propaganda it usually means intentionally undermining reasoned analysis.127 “To be effective, propaganda must constantly short-circuit all thought and decision.”

Note that propaganda (or least successful propaganda) depends upon preexisting beliefs. “[P]ropaganda cannot create something out of nothing. . . . [I]t must build on a foundation already present in the individual. . . . Propaganda is confined to utilizing existing material; it does not create it.”138 In the example above, the advertisement makes you like its product by associating it with something that you already liked. Demagogic propaganda in particular depends upon flawed preexisting ideological beliefs.139 Flawed ideologies are deeply held beliefs that are inaccurate. Racial ideologies, with their inevitable stereotypes, represent a paradigmatic example of a flawed ideological belief system. When linked to identity, as racial ideologies are, these ideologies become stronger still.140 Not surprisingly, these deep-seated and flawed beliefs interfere with rational analysis.

ir.lawnet.fordham.edu...

Impartiality and objective critical thinking on this subject matter will never be attained without the acceptance of at least one's own confirmation bias and/or understanding one's own ideological beliefs may be flawed. So no real discussion/debate can happen without this type of research and some deep soul/self-searching and reflection, and not just sourcing the West's mainstream media regurgitated narrative which aligns with one's own.

a reply to: quintessentone

I absolutely do see how it works and the problem I see is that most here do not understand how our confirmation bias and perhaps flawed ideological beliefs are played upon or manipulated by news media and governments to push their narratives. In addition, most here refuse to learn the history of these two peoples nor International Law which explains what ethnic cleansing, apartheid, occupation and genocide entail.

The conformation Bias I see, are the tons of threads by 1 or 2 people against Israel and condeming their decision to attack Hamas and yet make no mention of the attack, muder and kidnapping of more than 1400 people by Hamas.
They seem happy to sit on their high horse and and claim they're not against Israel. Did they post as many threads condeming Hamas for it's attack on Isreal.

Impartiality and objective critical thinking

It's a shame you can post about it, but can't seem to live by that comment, just like the other member here.

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: quintessentone

I absolutely do see how it works and the problem I see is that most here do not understand how our confirmation bias and perhaps flawed ideological beliefs are played upon or manipulated by news media and governments to push their narratives. In addition, most here refuse to learn the history of these two peoples nor International Law which explains what ethnic cleansing, apartheid, occupation and genocide entail.

The conformation Bias I see, are the tons of threads by 1 or 2 people against Israel and condeming their decision to attack Hamas and yet make no mention of the attack, muder and kidnapping of more than 1400 people by Hamas.
They seem happy to sit on their high horse and and claim they're not against Israel. Did they post as many threads condeming Hamas for it's attck on Isreal.

Impartiality and objective critical thinking

It's a shame you can post about it, but can't seem to live by that comment, just like the other member here.

This did not start with the Oct. 7th attack and that is one of my points, the history of these peoples and the occupation and annexation of lands there have to be taken into consideration, along with how both sides' actions violated International Law.

What I stand for in this conflict is for the U.N. and others to remove the existing government leaders and once again, this time with completion, negotiate a new agreement between the two peoples and the lands in a fair manner for all.

Israel will never be secure if they continue on their path of destruction, that is a given.

Therein lies the impartiality, the ability to see the whole picture through their history and understanding that doing the same actions over and over will never resolve this conflict.

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: quintessentone

You do know, if you post a long video, you are expected to post a summary?

Are you still saying this is an empty gesture by the unions and there are no arms shipments because you can't find any evidence there have been arms shipments from Belgium to Israel.

Updated News:

The Workers’ Party of Belgium has called for a strict check on licenses for regional export decrees and arms trade treaties and their rejection if the weapons are being used by Israel for war crimes and attacks on civilians

On November 21, the PTB demanded that the government’s public service enterprise Federal Public Service Economy (SPF Economy) must check licenses regarding regional export decrees and arms trade treaties and refuse them if weapons are used for war crimes and attacks on civilians. “We demand full transparency from the Prime Minister and Minister of Economy Pierre-Yves Dermagne, as well as the implementation of a strict military embargo against Israel, which commits serious war crimes,” added the party.

The PTB has also demanded that the Belgian government act to bring Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu before the International Criminal Court, suspend the preferential association agreement between the European Union and Israel, impose a military embargo on Israel, and recall the Belgian ambassador to Israel.”

peoplesdispatch.org...

(I hope that link to the source doesn't go belly up like some of the others did.)

a reply to: quintessentone

You have to be an idiot not to know at least some of the History of the conflicts of this region.

What I stand for in this conflict is for the U.N. and others to remove the existing government leaders and once again, this time with completion, negotiate a new agreement between the two peoples and the lands in a fair manner for all.

So you think the U.N. needs to become some kind of dictatorship and be able to remove an unliked government? I imagine there are plenty of countries who would'nt like that idea?

Israel will never be secure if they continue on their path of destruction, that is a given.

And yet all your talk of impartiallity, you still pick out Israel here? Hamas and so Gaza will never be secure if they continue on their path of destruction and will never be able to settle a 2 state solution.

How about both sides will never be secure.....
See how easy that is to type??

a reply to: Kurokage

The context of my post was for both sides, but how is it that you misread it? See how it works?

More evidence of how independent voices in media and unions are being silenced through intimidation of being fired and media personnel actually being fired when they step up calling for a ceasefire.

Despite the current crackdown on criticism of Israel’s actions, a handful of union locals have passed calls for ceasefire and solidarity.

In Austin, Texas, Electrical Workers (IBEW) Local 520 passed a resolution at its membership meeting to sign on to the ceasefire letter started by the United Electrical Workers (UE) international and Food and Commercial Workers (UFCW) Local 3000.

Electrician apprentice Dave Pinkham, one of the members who brought the motion, talked to members across the local to build support. “The main question that came up was, ‘What does this have to do with us?’” says Pinkham. “We made an appeal to humanity: ‘U.S. military support to Israel is supporting violence there. Let’s stop.’ That worked.”

Along with these Texans, eight other labor organizations have added their name to the ceasefire letter, including the San Antonio educators and school staff, Restaurant Workers United, and the Auto Workers' western regional leadership.

On Tuesday, top leaders of the Painters (IUPAT) put out their own call for a ceasefire. IUPAT President Jimmy Williams wrote on X, “It is the duty of all working people to stand up and say enough. A conflict of this magnitude cannot be fixed by bombs and bullets.”

The board of Longshore Workers Local 5 in Oregon, which includes workers in bookshops, early childhood education, and animal clinics, put out a ceasefire statement that says, “The ILWU’s long history of social justice activism and solidarity with oppressed people around the world is part of what drew the original organizers of Local 5 to the ILWU in the first place.” In recent decades, Longshore Workers at Oakland and British Columbia ports have refused to unload cargo from Israeli ships, honoring picket lines and boycotts.

A new rank-and-file campaign, WGA for Peace, is pushing for the Writers Guild to resist the lead of the Director’s Guild (DGA) and SAG-AFTRA in releasing statements of support for Israel. A group of high-profile members of the Guild had asked the Guild to condemn the October 7 attacks.

A WGA for Peace representative said the group worried the statements would fuel “a one-sided narrative that would lead to the escalating genocide in Palestine that we’re witnessing today.

“As mostly lower to mid-level workers, we knew that if we were going to be successful we would have to show collective force publicly,” said the representative, who asked to remain anonymous.

WGA for Peace published their own open letter, now signed by members of the Animation Guild (IATSE-TAG), the Directors Guild, and SAG-AFTRA calling on their unions to retract statements uncritically supporting Israel’s actions.

In California, the board of the Oakland Education Association called for an immediate ceasefire, organizing a rally with other unions and sharing curriculum and other resources for teachers.

“We have large groups of students who come from Yemen, as well as Palestine and other parts of the Middle East,” said kindergarten teacher Olivia Udovic, a board member. “At my daughter’s high school, students helped lead a teach-in and walked out last Friday. A middle school is holding a circle for Muslim, Jewish, and Arab-American students to process what’s happening together.

“I’d say times like this are a time to show our students how understanding current events is critical—and we have responsibilities, especially when it’s our government that’s funding so much of the atrocities we’re seeing on the news.

“That’s what it means to address the sadness and anger that many of us are experiencing right now. For younger people, it’s even harder to understand the why, and even more important to provide spaces to do something, to not just sit in grief.”

labornotes.org...

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Kurokage

The context of my post was for both sides, but how is it that you misread it? See how it works?

Really? Yet I see no condemnation of the Hamas attack? See how that works?

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: quintessentone

You do know, if you post a long video, you are expected to post a summary?

Are you still saying this is an empty gesture by the unions and there are no arms shipments because you can't find any evidence there have been arms shipments from Belgium to Israel.

Updated News:

The Workers’ Party of Belgium has called for a strict check on licenses for regional export decrees and arms trade treaties and their rejection if the weapons are being used by Israel for war crimes and attacks on civilians

On November 21, the PTB demanded that the government’s public service enterprise Federal Public Service Economy (SPF Economy) must check licenses regarding regional export decrees and arms trade treaties and refuse them if weapons are used for war crimes and attacks on civilians. “We demand full transparency from the Prime Minister and Minister of Economy Pierre-Yves Dermagne, as well as the implementation of a strict military embargo against Israel, which commits serious war crimes,” added the party.

The PTB has also demanded that the Belgian government act to bring Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu before the International Criminal Court, suspend the preferential association agreement between the European Union and Israel, impose a military embargo on Israel, and recall the Belgian ambassador to Israel.”

peoplesdispatch.org...

(I hope that link to the source doesn't go belly up like some of the others did.)

That's great news of course!

originally posted by: Kurokage

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Kurokage

The context of my post was for both sides, but how is it that you misread it? See how it works?

Really? Yet I see no condemnation of the Hamas attack? See how that works?

The thread is about the Belgian unions refusing to handle shipments that head to Israel. Trying to argue about Hamas isn't a wise tactic.

You need to come to terms with reality that people are against the slaughtering of innocent civilians by the Israeli Army. That's more than clear.

originally posted by: Kurokage

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Kurokage

The context of my post was for both sides, but how is it that you misread it? See how it works?

Really? Yet I see no condemnation of the Hamas attack? See how that works?

My subject matter was not specifically dealing with condemnation but I have always and will always condemn both sides. What my post is about goes deeper than taking sides, which is all you seem to be capable of doing. I want everyone to see the entire historical truth here and you just want to push the justification for genocide agenda.

a reply to: Kurokage

Carpy said this is an empty gesture by the unions and there are no arms shipments because he can't find any evidence there have been arms shipments from Belgium to Israel.

Do you agree with this flawed logic? Do you think this is an empty gesture?

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: quintessentone

You do know, if you post a long video, you are expected to post a summary?

Are you still saying this is an empty gesture by the unions and there are no arms shipments because you can't find any evidence there have been arms shipments from Belgium to Israel.

Updated News:

The Workers’ Party of Belgium has called for a strict check on licenses for regional export decrees and arms trade treaties and their rejection if the weapons are being used by Israel for war crimes and attacks on civilians

On November 21, the PTB demanded that the government’s public service enterprise Federal Public Service Economy (SPF Economy) must check licenses regarding regional export decrees and arms trade treaties and refuse them if weapons are used for war crimes and attacks on civilians. “We demand full transparency from the Prime Minister and Minister of Economy Pierre-Yves Dermagne, as well as the implementation of a strict military embargo against Israel, which commits serious war crimes,” added the party.

The PTB has also demanded that the Belgian government act to bring Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu before the International Criminal Court, suspend the preferential association agreement between the European Union and Israel, impose a military embargo on Israel, and recall the Belgian ambassador to Israel.”

peoplesdispatch.org...

(I hope that link to the source doesn't go belly up like some of the others did.)

That's great news of course!

See how these uprisings/movements are kept under wraps in the mainstream news media?

These are a big deal and yet the West's MSM is not reporting on the overwhelming workers' and civilian voices calling for a ceasefire.

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: Kurokage

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Kurokage

The context of my post was for both sides, but how is it that you misread it? See how it works?

Really? Yet I see no condemnation of the Hamas attack? See how that works?

The thread is about the Belgian unions refusing to handle shipments that head to Israel. Trying to argue about Hamas isn't a wise tactic.

You need to come to terms with reality that people are against the slaughtering of innocent civilians by the Israeli Army. That's more than clear.

Then why are you and Quint' talking about Israels 'Destruction in Gaza' ? If Belgium was shipping armaments to Israel isn't it all connected and so not drifting the thread?
You need to come to terms with reality that people are also against the murder and kidnapping of 1400 innocent Iraeli people, which is made VERY CLEAR from the ATS membership.

You do enjoy trying to tell others what they can and can't talk about on ATS. That decession is upto the great ATS Mods.

originally posted by: Leviathan4
a reply to: Kurokage

Carpy said this is an empty gesture by the unions and there are no arms shipments because he can't find any evidence there have been arms shipments from Belgium to Israel.

Do you agree with this flawed logic? Do you think this is an empty gesture?

You say it's flawed yet Carpy asked for you to post evidence? I've yet to see your posts of those armaments here? Like I said before, if the Belgium Unions believe and have proof that arms shipments are being transported through their ports and don't agree, they are within their rights to refuse. Just be thankful Musk isn't in charge or he'd sack them all.

originally posted by: Kurokage

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: Kurokage

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Kurokage

The context of my post was for both sides, but how is it that you misread it? See how it works?

Really? Yet I see no condemnation of the Hamas attack? See how that works?

The thread is about the Belgian unions refusing to handle shipments that head to Israel. Trying to argue about Hamas isn't a wise tactic.

You need to come to terms with reality that people are against the slaughtering of innocent civilians by the Israeli Army. That's more than clear.

Then why are you and Quint' talking about Israels 'Destruction in Gaza' ? If Belgiuim was shipping armaments to Israel isn't it all connected and so not drifting the thread?
You need to come to terms with reality that people are also against the murder and kidnapping of 1400 innocent Iraeli people, which is made VERY CLEAR from the ATS membership.

You do enjoy trying to tell others what they can and can't talk about on ATS. That decession is upto the great ATS Mods.

You want to ignore how these people feel in those unions, movements, labour groups and how they feel is what I am posting about, it's called the reason why they want a ceasefire, the reason why they are refusing to handle arms shipments to Israel. The ridiculousness of carp's and your assertions that evidence is needed that the arms to Israel exist at all is absurd.

This conflict did not start on Oct. 7th and that is a fact you need to reconcile yourself with and stop pushing that one day to justify the genocide of innocent people who have been under Israel occupation for 20 years.

a reply to: quintessentone

You want to ignore how these people feel in those unions, movements, labour groups and how they feel is what I am posting about, it's called the reason why they want a ceasefire, the reason why they are refusing to handle arms shipments to Israel. The ridiculousness of carp's and your assertions that evidence is needed that the arms to Israel exist at all is absurd.

This conflict did not start on Oct. 7th and that is a fact you need to reconcile yourself with and stop pushing that one day to justify the genocide of innocent people who have been under Israel occupation for 20 years.

Just as the membership here, there are those who support Isreal defending it's self, but now want the war to end, and from the looks of things the ceasefire will continue if Hamas carry on releasing its kidnapped victims. That doesn't mean that they then support a terrorist organastion like Hamas as you and Lev' seem to think here.
You talk of propaganda news agencies pushing an Israeli agenda, yet have you actually seen any arms shipments? Like I said before numorous times, if the Belgium Unions believe they are handling arms shipments and have proof and don't want to, that their decission. I imagine there are pleny of others who will and it's probably a drop in the ocean to what European countries have already supplied anyway.

You seem stuck on the 'this conflict didn't start on the 7th' like you think people don't know that? The region has been a hotbed for years and is common knowledge. Obviously from your last sentence, you have a clear bias against Isreal and are not really interested in a fair end to the conflict in the region.

originally posted by: Kurokage

originally posted by: Leviathan4
a reply to: Kurokage

Carpy said this is an empty gesture by the unions and there are no arms shipments because he can't find any evidence there have been arms shipments from Belgium to Israel.

Do you agree with this flawed logic? Do you think this is an empty gesture?

You say it's flawed yet Carpy asked for you to post evidence? I've yet to see your posts of those armaments here? Like I said before, if the Belgium Unions believe and have proof that arms shipments are being transported through their ports and don't agree, they are within their rights to refuse. Just be thankful Musk isn't in charge or he'd sack them all.

What evidence? I didn't make any claim by the way.
So you say there are no arms shipments from Belgium to Israel because Carpy couldn't find any evidence there are... So the unions must have imagined the whole thing after all and created a story out of nowhere. That's a very convincing argument!

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: quintessentone

You want to ignore how these people feel in those unions, movements, labour groups and how they feel is what I am posting about, it's called the reason why they want a ceasefire, the reason why they are refusing to handle arms shipments to Israel. The ridiculousness of carp's and your assertions that evidence is needed that the arms to Israel exist at all is absurd.

This conflict did not start on Oct. 7th and that is a fact you need to reconcile yourself with and stop pushing that one day to justify the genocide of innocent people who have been under Israel occupation for 20 years.

Just as the membership here, there are those who support Isreal defending it's self, but now want the war to end, and from the looks of things the ceasefire will continue if Hamas carry on releasing its kidnapped victims. That doesn't mean that they then support a terrorist organastion like Hamas as you and Lev' seem to think here.
You talk of propaganda news agencies pushing an Israeli aagenda, yet have you actually seen any arms shipments? Like I said before numorous times, if the Belgium Unions belive they are handling arms shipments and have proof and don't want to, that their decission. I imagine there are pleny of others who will and it's probably a drop in the ocean to what European countries have already supplied anyway.

You seem stuck on the 'this conflict didn't start on the 7th' like you think people don't know that? The region has been a hotbed for years and is common knowledge. Obviously from your last sentence, you have a clear bias against Isreal and are not really interested in a fair end to the conflict in the region.

So it is a matter of belief after all?! The unions believed there were arms shipments heading to Israel and created a story that doesn't exist. If anyone claims there are no arms shipments from Belgium to Israel and the whole story is a fabrication then they can prove it.