Titan Submersible Tragedy - Cabal Message or genuine accident

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: Kreeate

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: Kreeate

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: boozo
a reply to: Kreeate

Sunday: US Navy detects implosion of the Titan, doesn’t inform public

Monday: “TITAN IS MISSING!!”
Tuesday: “BANGING IS HEARD!!”
Wednesday: “RUNNING OUT OF AIR!!”
Thursday: “WRECKAGE FOUND!!”

They knew the outcome 4 days ago, yet they kept the drama going for the entire week

Posted a vid days ago that claimed an implosion was heard. Zaphod58 replied with this

The underwater network would have easily heard if it went, but the problem is that the guys running the network almost certainly aren't going to release that until they clean up a lot of information about how sensitive the network is.

I generally trust what he says, and it makes sense. Also I think they need to confirm it %100, before breaking the news. Like pieces of a puzzle, until it's all together, you keep looking till all the pieces come together.

I suspect that even if the Navy has all kinds of telemetry about this incident, they would selectively release information about it.
Military capability/secrets are obviously sensitive and divulging certain information may be counterintuitive to the Navy.

Exactly, that was Zaphod58's point. He is a trusted source on these kinds of things.

Kindly send me a link to that thread. Would be much appreciated.

Here ya go!
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Muchas gracias!

Couple thoughts on things brought up in this thread.

Tom Clancy's Hunt for Red October raised a lot of eyebrows back in the day for being just a little too accurate as far as submarine operations. The picket fence set up for submarine detection is very nicely detailed in the novel. The signature of an implosion crush is apparently very distinct. It was likely heard. If the crush was heard at the time of the vessel's comm out, it becomes interesting as to why the story played out for as long as it did as a search and rescue vs recovery mission.

Someone mentioned insurance on the vessel. Very like was uninsurable. It had no safety certifications. From what I've read, it was not registered/flagged in any country. I can't see an insurance company taking a bet like that.

So how did they operate then? The mothership is apparently squared away legally. The Titan, essentially cargo, not legally able to operate in territorial waters because it's not registered or certified. Best analogy I heard was someone hauling a vehicle on a trailer. The towing vehicle and trailer have to be legally up to snuff. That's legit and squared away. And while it's towing a car, other than having ownership type documentation, the car is pretty much cargo. On the trailer, roadworthiness is typically not looked it.

So OceanGate loads up Titan as cargo, gets into international waters, loads up five people, bolts them into their eternal resting place, and into the abyss they go.

a reply to: Kreeate
This was the page where it was discussed actually,
www.abovetopsecret.com...

No problem!

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: nugget1

I think it event would have been capitalized on to divert attention from the Hunter story.

For sure. I think Joel Byron put an experimental implosion device in the sub to cover for his son. It’s the only thing that made sense.

This company was like the SpaceX of sea exploration, and the sub was probably just the beginning for humanities quest for the great unexplored depths.

Another attack on America by the omnipotent mastermind that is all controlling, Joel Byron. He can’t be stopped because of how incredibly competent he is. RIP future sea science. Thanks Byron.

I like your style of posting. I am however having a hard time in determining whether you are employing a constant aspect of severe sarcasm, or if you are simply this jaded. In other news, the Martians have länded, and water is now worth more than gold on the stock exchange.

a reply to: Kreeate

They have acoustic sensors all over the area to track subs. I am sure they didn't want to release anything that would give away sensor ranges or other capabilities so it took 2 days before its came out. Not that the media wouldn't milk it to avoid any biden crimes coverages...but they'd just cover trump stuff instead anyway so it wouldn't have been much different.

originally posted by: davegazi2
Couple thoughts on things brought up in this thread.

Tom Clancy's Hunt for Red October raised a lot of eyebrows back in the day for being just a little too accurate as far as submarine operations. The picket fence set up for submarine detection is very nicely detailed in the novel. The signature of an implosion crush is apparently very distinct. It was likely heard. If the crush was heard at the time of the vessel's comm out, it becomes interesting as to why the story played out for as long as it did as a search and rescue vs recovery mission.

Someone mentioned insurance on the vessel. Very like was uninsurable. It had no safety certifications. From what I've read, it was not registered/flagged in any country. I can't see an insurance company taking a bet like that.

So how did they operate then? The mothership is apparently squared away legally. The Titan, essentially cargo, not legally able to operate in territorial waters because it's not registered or certified. Best analogy I heard was someone hauling a vehicle on a trailer. The towing vehicle and trailer have to be legally up to snuff. That's legit and squared away. And while it's towing a car, other than having ownership type documentation, the car is pretty much cargo. On the trailer, roadworthiness is typically not looked it.

So OceanGate loads up Titan as cargo, gets into international waters, loads up five people, bolts them into their eternal resting place, and into the abyss they go.

I don't know if any insurance aspects are involved in this case. I believe that insurance companies will be very much aware of this situation and I imagine that some thought will go into their future contracts/agreements.

I also think that international policy and regulation regarding territorial waters may be - at the very least - reviewed after this incident.
It certainly has gained a global interest and there will be many questions after the fact.

originally posted by: RickyD
a reply to: Kreeate

They have acoustic sensors all over the area to track subs. I am sure they didn't want to release anything that would give away sensor ranges or other capabilities so it took 2 days before its came out. Not that the media wouldn't milk it to avoid any biden crimes coverages...but they'd just cover trump stuff instead anyway so it wouldn't have been much different.

I agree about the media for sure. And yes, the military probably didn't want to give away critical data that could expose their capabilities.
May I respectfully ask that we leave politics out of this please? I understand it was not necessarily your intention, but these things tend to slip in sometimes

a reply to: Kreeate

I think at this point I’m jaded.

There’s no doubt our country, and the planet are facing some incredibly troubling problems. I wouldn’t even say it’s hyperbolic to imply we may be dooming our short or even long term with our decisions.

And yet, everything that happens gets distilled down to American US politics, and almost every event gets blamed on the current or past president in almost every thread on this site.

If contextually brought up properly and neutrally, I think a vast majority of people would say things are dire, and yet look at the choices we’ll likely have for next election. And a small percentage of Americans (the most vocal though) would have us believe one or the other offers salvation or is the very least saving us from their opponent.

Every conversation these days devolves into speculation, declarations of absurd “realities” (void of any evidence), but rarely a discussion about what policies could actually propel us forward. And definitely not any partisan self awareness or self accountability.

Trump and Biden are symptoms, not the problems. The problem is the populace who gleefully join in on the theatrics, and listen to the talking points of said politicians, then say hold my beer and make us ponder whether we need a word better than hyperbole to describe the state of political discourse in this country.

So all I’m left with is sh** posting.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Kreeate

I think at this point I’m jaded.

There’s no doubt our country, and the planet are facing some incredibly troubling problems. I wouldn’t even say it’s hyperbolic to imply we may be dooming our short or even long term with our decisions.

And yet, everything that happens gets distilled down to American US politics, and almost every event gets blamed on the current or past president in almost every thread on this site.

If contextually brought up properly and neutrally, I think a vast majority of people would say things are dire, and yet look at the choices we’ll likely have for next election. And a small percentage of Americans (the most vocal though) would have us believe one or the other offers salvation or is the very least saving us from their opponent.

Every conversation these days devolves into speculation, declarations of absurd “realities” (void of any evidence), but rarely a discussion about what policies could actually propel us forward. And definitely not any partisan self awareness or self accountability.

Trump and Biden are symptoms, not the problems. The problem is the populace who gleefully join in on the theatrics, and listen to the talking points of said politicians, then say hold my beer and make us ponder whether we need a word better than hyperbole to describe the state of political discourse in this country.

So all I’m left with is sh** posting.

I can almost taste your pain. The world has indeed gone mad. Bit off topic but I hear you.

Back on topic... do you think the engineers involved in the design of the submersible should be held accountable?

a reply to: Kreeate

Trying to cover all the conspiracy bases...but yes there are many many many acoustic sensors and sonar stations all over the atlantic especially up north. On the seatl bed and as bouys. Some analyst somewhere probably saw/heard it and was like "wait a min" when he got home that night. 2 days to go up the chain of command to actually being admitted to is pretty quick in my opinion...honestly surprised they even admitted it.

a reply to: Kreeate

I think standard practice is the employer unless you could show some how they purposely obfuscated the safeness of it to the company.

a reply to: Kreeate

Back on topic... do you think the engineers involved in the design of the submersible should be held accountable?

That’s a tricky one, but I’m leaning towards no.

There’s a lot of dangerous eccentrics that propel innovation, many of them private. Regulation would have stopped the Wright brothers because in their time it was silly. If NASA had their way, SpaceX wouldn’t have been allowed to engage in space exploration. Those are just examples on the top of my head.

If something is obviously unregulated, than it’s up to us to tread carefully if we engage in said space. Take Crypto for example, want to play with your money their? (I do) Than know it’s uncharted waters and you’re on your own. Do I want to be prevented from doing so? No.

Maybe if these engineers were given taxpayer money for public transit, I’d have a different opinion on whether they’re criminally liable, but as it stands, I a layman wouldnt have gotten in that submersible coffin if I was paid the 250k. I don’t blame the people who got on board any more than people who clime Mount Everest knowing the risks, and we all have different risk tolerances.

That said, I’d probably feel more comfortable going on a SpaceX rocket to space because they clearly have a track record and a robust R&D apparatus, something far different than a niche tourist company.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Kreeate

Back on topic... do you think the engineers involved in the design of the submersible should be held accountable?

That’s a tricky one, but I’m leaning towards no.

There’s a lot of dangerous eccentrics that propel innovation, many of them private. Regulation would have stopped the Wright brothers because in their time it was silly. If NASA had their way, SpaceX wouldn’t have been allowed to engage in space exploration. Those are just examples on the top of my head.

If something is obviously unregulated, than it’s up to us to tread carefully if we engage in said space. Take Crypto for example, want to play with your money their? (I do) Than know it’s uncharted waters and you’re on your own. Do I want to be prevented from doing so? No.

Maybe if these engineers were given taxpayer money for public transit, I’d have a different opinion on whether they’re criminally liable, but as it stands, I a layman wouldnt have gotten in that submersible coffin if I was paid the 250k. I don’t blame the people who got on board any more than people who clime Mount Everest knowing the risks, and we all have different risk tolerances.

That said, I’d probably feel more comfortable going on a SpaceX rocket to space because they clearly have a track record and a robust R&D apparatus, something far different than a niche tourist company.

Good points and a sane analysis.

Personally, I wouldn't embark on any sub. I have severe reservations about even flying on commercial airplanes to be honest. Reasons are and remain my own.

Proven ability in a product is key. Tests need to be conducted under all possible conditions. My guess is that this was not the case for the OG sub.
Whilst engineers may design the product, its efficacy is ultimately up to rigorous and consistent testing under conditions that don't only match the target criteria, but desirably exceeds them in all aspects. If these tests were done, the flaws in the fundamental design of the sub may have been discovered.

Are the engineers at fault? Not exactly. Engineers need feedback from tests of prototypes in order to optimize design.
I suspect that none of these things were a factor in the design and manufacture of the OG sub.

On another note, perhaps there were flaws in the manufacturing process/quality of the sub? Pure speculation of course.

The sub was shoddy and did not meet safety standards maybe the CEO learned his lesson. This same sort of "leadership" results in dozens of train derailments as well.

originally posted by: darkbake
The sub was shoddy and did not meet safety standards maybe the CEO learned his lesson.

According to reported data, he did indeed. No "maybe" there.
Sad and unfortunate for the family members involved.

a reply to: Kreeate

Whats crazy is being smart enough to be that rich but not smart enough to check into the company taking your on a one of a kind adventure in a sub they made...

originally posted by: RickyD
a reply to: Kreeate

Whats crazy is being smart enough to be that rich but not smart enough to check into the company taking your on a one of a kind adventure in a sub they made...

Many people "inherit" money. Some also inherit "smarts". And with smarts here, I mean slimy tactics to screw other people over in general. The CEO of this company was not smart in my opinion. I think greed was a major factor in this tragedy.

a reply to: Kreeate

Sure it was...but if you spend 250k on a ticket on a submarine made by a private company...not just that but its their first one...wouldnt you wanna look into it some?

a reply to: Kreeate

Been thinking too, dawood is also involved with the SETI project.

I had to think about the private space Industrie as a comparison to the private deep sea endeavors.
Only thing I could think of, is that this will discourage inventors and investors alike.
Occams razor is probably right, money and stupidity is the most likely cause.
Still, hunt for red October, and watch the water, do ring a bell...

Very interesting. I've always believed this was a hoax due to insurance scam and a lot of other factors I've read throughout the years. Did anyone else read this whole thing? I like this idea more than anything else. I don't trust the rich or the powers in control at all, never have.



a reply to: riCK23