Who is Jesus to you?

originally posted by: boozo
Jesus was the real life "Neo" in the Matrix.

Actually Jesus was the vessel, the ship which carried Neo and Trinity to the machine city... the Logos

originally posted by: ltrz2025

originally posted by: Quadrivium
a reply to: ltrz2025
I find it remarkable that you keep saying there is NO HARD EVIDENCE and your only rebuttal is "That's not conclusive".
No links that support your POV. Just an opinion.
Why?

The whole concept of HARD evidence is that it must be conclusive. With respect to the Bible myths, there is no conclusive hard evidence. Is quite simple to understand... On the contrary, we have numerous elements which contradict many of the biblical accounts and expose the lies of those legends. Jewish and Christian scholars have been doing this for centuries now, but you blind yourself to that.

Once again.... I'm not sharing any point of view or opinion. I'm simply state the FACT that there is no conclusive hard evidence to support bible claims, such as with the ancient kingdom of Israel, or when it says that the earth is only 6.000 years old. That's a fact, there is no such evidence. Do you think there is conclusive evidence to support this? Ok, good for you. But for academia and anyone who looks at this objectively, there is none.

You are making me go in circles now man. Believe what you want. But facts are facts and it would be far more honorable and honest from you if you accept them. Bye.

So again, opinion. You keep telling others they are making opinion based arguments but you are as well.
You are sharing your point of view and opinion. You may not see it but you are.
You continually talk about "hard" or "conclusive" evidence but fail to show your research that contradicts the evidence provided. You only offer your opinion.
If we applied your logic to almost anything in history, almost any scientific theory, we would find them all lacking "hard or conclusive evidence".

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: ltrz2025

Meneptah

“Israel has been shorn,” it declares. “Its seed no longer exists.” These few words constitute the first known written reference to the Israelites.

13th century BC
article

This stele been contested SO MANY TIMES and in SO MANY WAYS, that literally no one takes it seriously anymore. So many people have consistently shown that those hieroglyphs DO NOT represent Israel. Hieroglyphs were not a language, but a code, and without vocal letters, so to pretend that you can just translate it via assumed sounds, it's close to clownish. You can look at it, all the analysis are public and easy to reach. I don't get why some people find it SO difficult to differentiate FACTS, hard conclusive evidence, from very weak and disputed artifacts. The issue here is that there is NO CONCLUSIVE evidence. They, if you want to interpret that as Israel, you are all in yuor right, but it doesn't make it true.

a reply to: ltrz2025


nobody can read hieroglyphs?
Archeological evidence, .... But please in English!

You are such a mess.

originally posted by: Quadrivium

originally posted by: ltrz2025

originally posted by: Quadrivium
a reply to: ltrz2025
I find it remarkable that you keep saying there is NO HARD EVIDENCE and your only rebuttal is "That's not conclusive".
No links that support your POV. Just an opinion.
Why?

The whole concept of HARD evidence is that it must be conclusive. With respect to the Bible myths, there is no conclusive hard evidence. Is quite simple to understand... On the contrary, we have numerous elements which contradict many of the biblical accounts and expose the lies of those legends. Jewish and Christian scholars have been doing this for centuries now, but you blind yourself to that.

Once again.... I'm not sharing any point of view or opinion. I'm simply state the FACT that there is no conclusive hard evidence to support bible claims, such as with the ancient kingdom of Israel, or when it says that the earth is only 6.000 years old. That's a fact, there is no such evidence. Do you think there is conclusive evidence to support this? Ok, good for you. But for academia and anyone who looks at this objectively, there is none.

You are making me go in circles now man. Believe what you want. But facts are facts and it would be far more honorable and honest from you if you accept them. Bye.

So again, opinion. You keep telling others they are making opinion based arguments but you are as well.
You are sharing your point of view and opinion. You may not see it but you are.
You continually talk about "hard" or "conclusive" evidence but fail to show your research that contradicts the evidence provided. You only offer your opinion.
If we applied your logic to almost anything in history, almost any scientific theory, we would find them all lacking "hard or conclusive evidence".

I'm sharing facts, that THERE IS NO HARD CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE for "Israel", "Hebrews", "Jews", "David", "Solomon", or anything that relates to the mythical kingdom of Israel. Nothing, nada, niente. The "evidence" that you show (3 pieces of inconclusive stones, nothing else, for a mythical super empire which allegedly killed everyone who faced them according to the Bible), have been analyzed and contested by many jewish scholars for over 200 years. You can easily google for each one of these pieces of stone you call evidence, and you will see the criticism and refutations in the very wikipedia pages, that's how easy access it is. You don't want to do it, or are too lazy to do a proper research, not my problem.

Then, you can contest and argue against any other historical fact or myth, I applaud you, we should QUESTION EVERYTHING. That still doesn't make the mythical Israel true. No matter how much you try.

a reply to: boozo

Return to the Source - Philosophy and the Matrix (2004)

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: ltrz2025

nobody can read hieroglyphs?
Archeological evidence, .... But please in English!

You are such a mess.

Hieroglyphs are not READ, they must be decoded. It's a symbolic code language that depends on the other symbols that they have around. You clearly know VERY little about this. A clear sign of intelligence and intelectual honesty is to only talk about that what you know. Funny that you think I'm the mess... projection maybe?

a reply to: ltrz2025

a mythical super empire who killed everyone who faced them

Again: nobody has those crazy expectations.
Nobody who has ever read a history book, or wanted to learn how archeology works which is basically almost everybody I would assume interested enough to discuss this topic has the same crazy expectations as you apparently do.

a reply to: ltrz2025

Except that that's wrong, they are also phonetic.

... you're always wrong and always condescending...

I am just watching how long you can keep this up

a reply to: iamthevirus

Actually Jesus was the vessel, the ship which carried Neo and Trinity to the machine city... the Logos

Jesus seams closer to Trinity in that story, he was the son of the father from the holy ghost. Trinity also gave her life so Neo could go to where he had to.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: ltrz2025
Again: nobody has those crazy expectations.
Nobody who has ever read a history book, or wanted to learn how archeology works which is basically almost everybody I would assume interested enough to discuss this topic has the same crazy expectations as you apparently do.

It's not about "expectations". This is about professional methodological scientific History, and the capacity to verify and validate evidences and texts. You are literally saying that we should believe what the bible tell us, but not to have expectations that what it says is true... I really don't think someone could even say such a thing seriously, I really think that you must be joking to think that way, but maybe not, and that's sad...

Anyway, all you seem to want to do is to make it personal, try this useless attempt to annoy me with internet letters, and to ruin the respectful and interesting exchange we having with other members, because you simply "don't like" what you are reading. Typical of these "woke Karen" times, if you don't like something, you have to get emotional, "call the manager" and to "cancel it".

I really have no interest to read your posts anymore, and less to answer you. You are disrespectful, talk about things you clearly ignore, and attack instead of accepting simple facts. You are a huge waste of my time...

Bye now.

a reply to: ltrz2025

Fine. Evidently you're an enthusiast on the subject. It means little enough to me, so I shan't argue with you.

But precisely since I am not an enthusiast or an expert, I shall continue to rely on the learned opinions of the academy -- which are varied enough among themselves and often give rise to scholarly controversy -- rather than embrace your somewhat radical views.

I am an old member here, but I don't believe in conspiracy theories. Certainly not in the existence of successful conspiracies operating for millennia. .

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: ltrz2025

Fine. Evidently you're an enthusiast on the subject. It means little enough to me, so I shan't argue with you.

But precisely since I am not an enthusiast or an expert, I shall continue to rely on the learned opinions of the academy -- which are varied enough among themselves and often give rise to scholarly controversy -- rather than embrace your somewhat radical views.

I am an old member here, but I don't believe in conspiracy theories. Certainly not in the existence of successful conspiracies operating for millennia. .

I've never asked you to embrace anything, bro. You are free to think and believe what you want... why did you feel I was asking you to embrace anything?.. Keep believing google and the mainstream media, some of the scholars while disregarding others, it's fine by me.

All I care about is the exchange and exposure of the arguments and the information. You or me are irrelevant in all this. Then, I disagree with this opinion you have that demanding hard evidence to confirm facts is a "radical view". To me that is most rational thing to do. But if you want to believe face value what others tell you, your choice and it's all good.

Lies, forgeries, fakes have been a constant through history, specially in times when people didn't have access to verify claims. The field of history is continuously, even on a monthly basis, exposing lies and frauds all the time. You just need to follow History news.

Take the "Shroud of Turin" for example (the cloth that was allegedly used by Jesus in the tomb), it was the most important relic of the Christian church since it was found. It first appeared around 1.300 AD. People from all over the world spent all their money to go see it. A few years ago, science proved that it was a total fabrication, the carbon dating of the cloth shows that it's only 800 years old and the "blood spots" were actually paint. There, staring right in your face, a 700 year old proven conspiracy, used to support the idea of Jesus in flesh and to steal millions of dollars from the believers and tourists.

But well, I guess conspiracies don't exist.... right? Funny how the world of conspiracy works, eh? Regarding the mRNA clot-shots, the vast majority of people that I know that was jabbed, today regret having it. Are they conspiracy theorist too? Or just people with doubts asking for hard evidence and facts?

Off topic and good wishes: if you don't think there are conspiracy theories, I guess that you are following the government and media guidelines, right? I hope those quintuple mRNA booster and your triple mask is keeping you safe... I really do, good luck.

a reply to: ltrz2025

What about the artifact of the Julian Calendar that is still in use today? It is something we can all decode which helps in its translation. With this artifact still being operational, then the story of how it began should be pretty solid. Or is this topic just as diverse and a quagmire of uncertainty too?

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: iamthevirus

Actually Jesus was the vessel, the ship which carried Neo and Trinity to the machine city... the Logos

Jesus seams closer to Trinity in that story, he was the son of the father from the holy ghost. Trinity also gave her life so Neo could go to where he had to.

Neo is just neo, the one... the individual

Logos is a vessel, a way to the source/father

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: ltrz2025

What about the artifact of the Julian Calendar that is still in use today? It is something we can all decode which helps in its translation. With this artifact still being operational, then the story of how it began should be pretty solid. Or is this topic just as diverse and a quagmire of uncertainty too?

Sorry friend, could you be a bit more specific? I'm not really sure to which artifact are you referring to. Artifact as a piece of physical evidence, right? I'm also having problems identifying which subject you are addressing here, we are not talking of Israel or Jesus anymore, right?...

a reply to: ltrz2025

we are not talking of Israel anymore, right?...

Correct. I am talking about Jesus though. What force was used to establish the BC/AD setting in the Julian Calendar? From what I have been taught, it was done this way because of the life of Jesus and the big impact he left on the people he meet and helped along the way. It did make a big change the the culture of the people. Big enough to reset a calendar over it.

There is evidence everywhere of this calendar existing today. Just check the date on your computer to find it.

originally posted by: ltrz2025

originally posted by: Quadrivium

originally posted by: ltrz2025

originally posted by: Quadrivium
a reply to: ltrz2025
I find it remarkable that you keep saying there is NO HARD EVIDENCE and your only rebuttal is "That's not conclusive".
No links that support your POV. Just an opinion.
Why?

The whole concept of HARD evidence is that it must be conclusive. With respect to the Bible myths, there is no conclusive hard evidence. Is quite simple to understand... On the contrary, we have numerous elements which contradict many of the biblical accounts and expose the lies of those legends. Jewish and Christian scholars have been doing this for centuries now, but you blind yourself to that.

Once again.... I'm not sharing any point of view or opinion. I'm simply state the FACT that there is no conclusive hard evidence to support bible claims, such as with the ancient kingdom of Israel, or when it says that the earth is only 6.000 years old. That's a fact, there is no such evidence. Do you think there is conclusive evidence to support this? Ok, good for you. But for academia and anyone who looks at this objectively, there is none.

You are making me go in circles now man. Believe what you want. But facts are facts and it would be far more honorable and honest from you if you accept them. Bye.

So again, opinion. You keep telling others they are making opinion based arguments but you are as well.
You are sharing your point of view and opinion. You may not see it but you are.
You continually talk about "hard" or "conclusive" evidence but fail to show your research that contradicts the evidence provided. You only offer your opinion.
If we applied your logic to almost anything in history, almost any scientific theory, we would find them all lacking "hard or conclusive evidence".

I'm sharing facts, that THERE IS NO HARD CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE for "Israel", "Hebrews", "Jews", "David", "Solomon", or anything that relates to the mythical kingdom of Israel. Nothing, nada, niente. The "evidence" that you show (3 pieces of inconclusive stones, nothing else, for a mythical super empire which allegedly killed everyone who faced them according to the Bible), have been analyzed and contested by many jewish scholars for over 200 years. You can easily google for each one of these pieces of stone you call evidence, and you will see the criticism and refutations in the very wikipedia pages, that's how easy access it is. You don't want to do it, or are too lazy to do a proper research, not my problem.

Then, you can contest and argue against any other historical fact or myth, I applaud you, we should QUESTION EVERYTHING. That still doesn't make the mythical Israel true. No matter how much you try.

No, you are sharing your unproven opinion.
Where is an actual rebuttal to any of the evidence, I provided, other than your word as a "researcher"?
You are stating your opinion, otherwise.

a reply to: ltrz2025

You are literally saying that we should believe what the bible tell us, but not to have expectations that what it says is true...

No.
I'm saying the religious myths are identity giving folklore to the different groups that embrace them.

to annoy me with internet letters,

Wow, also paranoid, huh? Online letters seriously? I smell a psychosis...
Which would fit I guess, because you've been shown how wrong you are over and over again, that must cause some stress.

It seems like if anything proves "Conspiracies in Religion" it happens when Jesus Christ is in question. I love the almost "life or death" situation that occurs within everyone involved; the super/natural urgency across the spectrum from atheist to zealot when it comes to Jesus. Christ is definitely a conspiracy of conspiracies here. Thank you, ATS![i/]