Who is Jesus to you?, page 14

posted on Feb, 10 2023 @ 09:25 AM

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originally posted by: BeNotAfraid
It seems like if anything proves "Conspiracies in Religion" it happens when Jesus Christ is in question. I love the almost "life or death" situation that occurs within everyone involved; the super/natural urgency across the spectrum from atheist to zealot when it comes to Jesus. Christ is definitely a conspiracy of conspiracies here. Thank you, ATS![i/]

Well not really, conspiracies regarding whether Jesus was a man or a myth arose in the 18th century and today we call those conspiracists "Mythicists".

The curious thing about this theory is that the early Church fathers such as Irenaeus loved to stamp out heresy. They wrote massive treatises criticizing heretics and yet in all of their writings the heresy that Jesus never existed is never mentioned. In fact, no one in the entire history of Christianity (not even early pagan critics like Celsus or Lucian) seriously argued for a mythic Jesus until the 18th century.

A small handful of scholars today, and a much larger group of Internet commenters, maintain that Jesus never existed. Proponents of this position, known as mythicists, claim that Jesus is a purely mythical figure invented by the writers of the New Testament (or its later copyists.) In this post I’ll offer the top four reasons (from weakest to strongest) that convince me Jesus of Nazareth was a real person without relying on the Gospel accounts of his life.

So shall we throw out the baby (Jesus' messages of love and path to God) with the bathwater (religious conspiracy)?
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ltrz2025

posted on Feb, 10 2023 @ 09:49 AM
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originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: ltrz2025
Correct. I am talking about Jesus though. What force was used to establish the BC/AD setting in the Julian Calendar? From what I have been taught, it was done this way because of the life of Jesus and the big impact he left on the people he meet and helped along the way. It did make a big change the the culture of the people. Big enough to reset a calendar over it.

There is evidence everywhere of this calendar existing today. Just check the date on your computer to find it.

Ok, I see my friend, thanks for the clarification. Regarding the calendars, there are a lot of theories. And, because it was an "administrative decision", archeology becomes quite useless to prove anything. Practically the entirety of this subject is based on interpretations and speculations, unfortunately. I think this could be very off topic too, if you want to create another thread with this topic I would participate, but next week, not much time now.

What I will tell you for the moment is that, based on everything that I've read and reflected on, the way a society measures time is KEY, and the powers that be put a lot of attention in that. It's a key tool for power and control, to keep it and to hide it. As I've said before in this thread, I don't believe history is linear and cosy-rosy as the mainstream tells us.

Like: "Napoleon was against the French King, and that was it". No, no, no. There are many aspects of that story that make it very complex, for example, how the Rothschild family was financing both Napoleon and the French King at the same time to go to war. History books are written and published by the same conspirators, so one must be aware of that. I think that the strongest force in history is CONSPIRACY. Conspiracy is based on hiding the truth, the intentions, in order to push agendas without people noticing it and make them believe something else. And I think the last 3 years have made this quite obvious.

The issue of the Calendars is SUPER important and you can expect some of the darkest and more complex theories around it. But to "prove" any of them, I don't think it's possible for now. Maybe, in the Vatican Vaults, there are secret documents or artifacts where they explained it in full. But we clearly don't have access to it. But well, we can still theorize and arrive to personal interpretations for sure!

Sorry this wasn't of much help.

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Peeple

posted on Feb, 10 2023 @ 09:58 AM
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a reply to: ltrz2025

for example, how the Rothschild family was financing both Napoleon and the French King at the same time to go to war.

So the bank gives you a loan, you buy guns and kill people, it's the bank that made you do it.
Because everybody is manipulated and a victim like you, right?

ltrz2025

posted on Feb, 10 2023 @ 09:59 AM
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originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: ltrz2025

You are literally saying that we should believe what the bible tell us, but not to have expectations that what it says is true...

No.
I'm saying the religious myths are identity giving folklore to the different groups that embrace them.

Just going to answer this and done with you.

You are saying something obvious. Sure, folklores are made of myths. Duh. A myth is a myth. The myth of Israel is a myth. That's what I've been saying since post 1. You agree with me that the ancient kingdom of Israel is a myth. You are proving me right. But don't see it and keep acting all karen-like because you are having some kind of emotional breakdown. I hope you get better.

buh-bye

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Peeple

posted on Feb, 10 2023 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: ltrz2025

...You agree with me that it Israel is a myth.

No. Because reality proves they're real, they exist. A myth doesn't do that, with flesh and blood and everything.

ltrz2025

posted on Feb, 10 2023 @ 10:04 AM
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originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: ltrz2025
So the bank gives you a loan, you buy guns and kill people, it's the bank that made you do it.
Because everybody is manipulated and a victim like you, right?

I'm forced to contests this because of how silly it is.

The tactics of war reside on logistics and resources. You can have the biggest army in the world, but if you don't have the resources to maintain it, you are done.

If your enemy has someone who is FINANCING their army (the banks, or loaners), you would try to kill those financers, because they are helping your enemy, so they are your enemy. The last thing you would do is to give money to your enemy. So, your whole reasoning of simply "going to the bank to take a loan", is laughable. But well, believe it if you want.

By the way, the Rothschilds came up as the leading global banking empire of the planet after the French Revolution, while the entirety of France was burned to the ground, both Napoleonic and Aristocrat. Who gave the loans to rebuild France after that?.... The Rothschilds, very nice bankers!... just a coincidence!

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Peeple

posted on Feb, 10 2023 @ 10:10 AM
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a reply to: ltrz2025

I'm forced to contests this because of how silly it is.

That's exactly my point. It was your argument applied to 'everybody'. And it turns out it doesn't work like that for anybody.
That's how 'thinking' works, you should try.

kwakakev

posted on Feb, 10 2023 @ 10:13 AM
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a reply to: ltrz2025

Sorry this wasn't of much help.

Thanks for trying. I know it ain't easy to move when trust is in short supply. With the nature of war there has been a lot of fog around.

Peeple

posted on Feb, 10 2023 @ 10:13 AM
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a reply to: ltrz2025

After you edited:

By the way, the Rothschilds came up as the leading global banking empire of the planet after the French Revolution

That's how business works: right time, right place, right offer.
It's not like any of it happened in a vacuum or suddenly there are many long lines of events that had to coincide.

ltrz2025

posted on Feb, 10 2023 @ 10:15 AM
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a reply to: kwakakev

iamthevirus

posted on Feb, 10 2023 @ 10:17 AM
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originally posted by: kwakakev

Jesus seams closer to Trinity in that story

Trinity is just a descriptor as no one can define The Source, God, Logos, Cosmos whatever one chooses to call it.

Trinity represents a feeling which can also only be described using a word "Love"

That's how God/Source/Cosmos feels, the words becomes manifest thru us, real-time, at all times.

So maybe the Cosmos/God/Source needs humans to experience nature in the same way the machines need humans to also.

quintessentone

posted on Feb, 10 2023 @ 10:20 AM
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originally posted by: iamthevirus

originally posted by: kwakakev

Jesus seams closer to Trinity in that story

Trinity is just a descriptor as no one can define The Source, God, Logos, Cosmos whatever one chooses to call it.

Trinity represents a feeling which can also only be described using a word "Love"

That's how God/Source/Cosmos feels, the words becomes manifest thru us, real-time, at all times.

So maybe the Cosmos/God/Source needs humans to experience nature in the same way the machines need humans to also.

Yes, the theme of love is upfront in that story as is 'hope'.

Astyanax

posted on Feb, 10 2023 @ 10:31 AM
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a reply to: ltrz2025

Cool. Glad you're easy with it.

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kwakakev

posted on Feb, 10 2023 @ 10:34 AM

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a reply to: iamthevirus

Defining the source is tough. As some descriptions use terms like omnipresent and omnipotent, meaning everywhere and every when, perhaps it is somewhere in the quantum fabric of reality? Perhaps it is somewhere much bigger as all the galaxies we can see is just one small part of a bigger thing?

Is time and space infinite? Perhaps there was some kind of intergalactic big bang a few billion or trillion years ago. There are still a lot of unanswered questions of just exactly how it all began. With our best telescopes restricted by the limitations of light in understanding this universe, some kind of clearly defined edge to the universe is still elusive.

ltrz2025

posted on Feb, 10 2023 @ 10:38 AM

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originally posted by: boozo
Jesus was the real life "Neo" in the Matrix.

He was able to bend reality to his will and Agent Smiths are surely after him lol.
Jesus even managed to resurrect himself from the dead. lol.

Perhaps it's where the directors "Wachowskis" got the inspiration for NEO came from. lol.

originally posted by: iamthevirus

originally posted by: kwakakev

Jesus seams closer to Trinity in that story

Trinity is just a descriptor as no one can define The Source, God, Logos, Cosmos whatever one chooses to call it.

Trinity represents a feeling which can also only be described using a word "Love"

That's how God/Source/Cosmos feels, the words becomes manifest thru us, real-time, at all times.

So maybe the Cosmos/God/Source needs humans to experience nature in the same way the machines need humans to also.

I cannot tell you much about Trinity from the Matrix film, but I can tell you much of the Trinity from religion, which I think it's where the character of the movie was based on. My research has lead me to arrive to the interpretation that the divine Trinity is the concept of the 3 (sure, obvious), let me develop.

The Fibonacci sequence starts like this: 1, 1, 2, 3...

The first 1 is the MONAD for the Pythagoreans, which would be the aether. The absolute nothingness from where we come from.

The second 1 would be the first step into creation, the first pillar (I).

Number 2 would be the second step into creation, which is a second pillar, but a shadow of the first pillar (I-I).

These two opposite pillars form the DUALITY (light and darkness, knowledge and ignorance, etc.) The pillars of Jachim and Boaz, as known in freemasonry.

But because these pillars oppose, there must be a 3rd component that balances all. That is 3.

Trinity is the balance of the universe as understood by the Pythagoreans and the mysteries schools. The Pythagoreans believed that the triangle was the first balanced and founding form of the universe. That's why at the head of every religion you have trinities. The most famous one, probably: (Isis) - (Horus/Osiris) - (Set). IHS, which is the signature of the Jesuits.

Neo (as Horus and Jesus) sacrifices himself to end the war with the Machines (Set, Satan). The Trinity character is Isis, or Mary. I think that's what they tried to portray in the film. But just a theory.

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quintessentone

posted on Feb, 10 2023 @ 10:41 AM

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a reply to: ltrz2025

Trinity, in the film, sacrificed herself for Neo, so here again is subjective perception leading to an opinion.

Astyanax

posted on Feb, 10 2023 @ 10:42 AM

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To summarise, then, in a few bullet points.

- Historical figure? (ie was he a real chap)
- God?
- Myth symbolising something or other
- Alien meddler in terrestrial affairs
- Con
- Other (write in space below)

Shall we take a poll?

ltrz2025

posted on Feb, 10 2023 @ 10:43 AM

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originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: ltrz2025

Trinity, in the film, sacrificed herself for Neo, so here again is subjective perception leading to an opinion.

MY BAD! Confused the scenes! Ok, Neo saves the world by delivering himself to the machines. Which is what Horus does, saving the world, by defeating Set.

Then, subjective perceptions are opinions... always. I think we are all sharing opinions here, no need to get emotional.

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quintessentone

posted on Feb, 10 2023 @ 10:47 AM

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originally posted by: ltrz2025

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: ltrz2025

Trinity, in the film, sacrificed herself for Neo, so here again is subjective perception leading to an opinion.

What movie have you watched? Neo saves trinity in the film, the guy put his fist in her, and then he delivers himself (Jesus like) to the Machines....

A subjective perception IS an opinion.... yeez.

My point proven by your post. Hard fact.

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quintessentone

posted on Feb, 10 2023 @ 10:49 AM

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originally posted by: ltrz2025

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: ltrz2025

Trinity, in the film, sacrificed herself for Neo, so here again is subjective perception leading to an opinion.

What movie have you watched? Neo saves trinity in the film, the guy put his fist in her, and then he delivers himself (Jesus like) to the Machines....

A subjective perception IS an opinion.... yeez.

Whew! Take deep breaths and relax, this discussion/debate is not a contest.