Who is Jesus to you?

originally posted by: Quadrivium
a reply to: ltrz2025

1. How can you ask me for "hard evidence", when all I've been saying is that THERE IS NO HARD EVIDENCE anywhere for the mythical kingdom of Israel? How silly can you be, please....

My other evidence was not up to your standards. I will try once more.

1. www.historyofinformation.com...
2. www.historyofinformation.com...
3. www.historymuseum.ca...
4. www.sutori.com...

Enough?

I'll answer out of courtesy, but these artifacts were already discussed before in this thread with another member.

Check several sources about each of this stones (steles), even Wikipedia, which is not my favorite. You will find that these steles you share are highly contested by Jewish and Christians scholars themselves. Some believe that they say one thing, and some others (with excellent arguments) refute those positions. These are not conclusive evidences. There are contradictive interpretations on these artifacts. Plus, it's just only a few stones, quite unclear in their meanings... it's not enough to confirm the existence of an empire which, according to bible tales, was waging war against all the kingdoms during the Bronze Age, conquering lands and kicking azz Chuch Norris style.

And this is not my standards, you keep making personal. These are discussions that have 300 years in Academia, and what I'm simply informing you of is that archeologists, historians, scholars, researches of all kinds, say. Many have done extensive research to try to confirm the bible myths and they never found hard consistent evidence. And believe me, they've tried. The very foundation of the State of Israel in 1948 depended quite a lot on these myths, the Israeli government has put a lot of resources to try to confirm the bible tales. Never could.

It's not my opinion, it's not my standards, it's a very basic verifiable fact that everyone in these fields know. And you have all the right to have your own interpretation or opinion of these stones, but that doesn't make the Bible myths true.

originally posted by: chris_stibrany
Torah
Zohar
Enuma Elish
Caananite pagan memories
Pre-flood Atlantean memories

a reply to: ltrz2025

Not really sure what you are trying to tell me, bro.

a reply to: ltrz2025

Bro,
It's in your first sentence.
I am demonstrating some of the books the Bible was compiled from

'Let me correct you something there: the Bible is not a book, it's a compilation of different books.'

I could teach you a thing or two about the bible.
What is that one again? a reply to: kwakakev

a reply to: kwakakev

Jesus is the Holy Son of God. A great resource for those who have issue with how the Bible was wrote and translated is "Why I Trust the Bible by William Mounce". I could not imagine going through life without the Holy Spirit and Gods Word.

Would you be offended being told it was not written for you?a reply to: MPoling

Questioning your first paragraph, Why
a reply to: kwakakev

You asked.

originally posted by: chris_stibrany
a reply to: ltrz2025

Bro,
It's in your first sentence.
I am demonstrating some of the books the Bible was compiled from

'Let me correct you something there: the Bible is not a book, it's a compilation of different books.'

Ok, it's not entirely correct though, the bible is divided in several books by itself, but does not matter.

However, the bible was no compiled from those "books" (as you call them), but the authors of the bible STOLE from the myths of the other cultures of the Near East. They simply took the stories and changed the names, a publicity stunt.

This is clear evidence that the myths of the Bible are NOT Christian, nor Jewish, nor Hebrew. These myths belonged to other people, other nations, far older cultures, and with real empires. Some manipulators and liars, deceivers, stole these myths and assigned them to the mythological story of the alleged "Hebrews".... some people have no shame when it comes to power and pushing political agendas.

a reply to: ltrz2025
I find it remarkable that you keep saying there is NO HARD EVIDENCE and your only rebuttal is "That's not conclusive".
No links that support your POV. Just an opinion.
Why?

originally posted by: Quadrivium
a reply to: ltrz2025
I find it remarkable that you keep saying there is NO HARD EVIDENCE and your only rebuttal is "That's not conclusive".
No links that support your POV. Just an opinion.
Why?

The whole concept of HARD evidence is that it must be conclusive. With respect to the Bible myths, there is no conclusive hard evidence. Is quite simple to understand... On the contrary, we have numerous elements which contradict many of the biblical accounts and expose the lies of those legends. Jewish and Christian scholars have been doing this for centuries now, but you blind yourself to that.

Once again.... I'm not sharing any point of view or opinion. I'm simply state the FACT that there is no conclusive hard evidence to support bible claims, such as with the ancient kingdom of Israel, or when it says that the earth is only 6.000 years old. That's a fact, there is no such evidence. Do you think there is conclusive evidence to support this? Ok, good for you. But for academia and anyone who looks at this objectively, there is none.

You are making me go in circles now man. Believe what you want. But facts are facts and it would be far more honorable and honest from you if you accept them. Bye.

He is this guy I was programmed as a child to believe was my imaginary big brother fathered by my imaginary Big Daddy Alpha via a human virgin. Jesus is the character that to this day every night when I lay my head down to sleep the last thing that comes from my programmed mind is "Dear Heavenly Father". Thats about as far as I let it get anymore before I pull myself from the false comfort which is Christ. Then I finish with There may be a lot of things, wormholes, inter dimensional crime fighting, etc, why would I give this Jesus character even a tenth of the attention I pay to the possibility of a hot chick Bigfoot. FTW

Furthermore yet agin Jesus Perez was my friend. For about five minutes..the last five minutes of ole Jesus' life, ill tell You about it. I came up on a bad wreck 8 cars at least, both lanes of the highway , real late, 4 am..I started clearing vehicles, I was first on scene, not on duty, wearing friggn sandals, anyway last vehicle to clear was a bobtail semi sitting nose up on the back axl, his load had basically disintegrated, well I reluctantly climb up the semi tower basically, pop open the door and there he was, sitting strapped into the drivers seat staring at the sky with what looked like a hatchet wound directly down the center of his forehead, he was fading in and out so I started talking to him to try to get him to stay awake, all I could think was hey"what's Your name?" And all he would say is "Jesus" (pronounced Latin), I became a little frustrated, I figured he was praying, but I needed him more conscious than that, and I said " Ok, You may be going to meet Jesus, but I need to know Your name..this went on for a bit back and forth until finally he managed to tell me "no amigo, my name is Jesus Perez." And he was my friend, and died on the scene..again FTW

originally posted by: ltrz2025
Right from the start, the bible mythology tells you that the earth is only 6,000 year old. But we know that isn't so, right?...

Does it?

I like the King James...

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

That's a pretty good description of evolution in short form.

You don't accept that the 6 days referred to actually means 6 days? You would be surprised how many people who are Christian don't believe the 6,000 year idea. Most I'd think. Don't put all Christians into a box. Many scientists are in fact, Christians.

Faith is different than science. You, yourself accept some things on faith whether you realize it or not. You sit on a chair because you have faith it will hold you and not collapse even though you have no idea if it's true.

It's difficult for those of us who know for a fact what is true as it was proven to us to explain. You only know after it happens.

originally posted by: Blaine91555

originally posted by: ltrz2025
Right from the start, the bible mythology tells you that the earth is only 6,000 year old. But we know that isn't so, right?...

Does it?

I like the King James...

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

That's a pretty good description of evolution in short form.

You don't accept that the 6 days referred to actually means 6 days? You would be surprised how many people who are Christian don't believe the 6,000 year idea. Most I'd think. Don't put all Christians into a box. Many scientists are in fact, Christians.

Faith is different than science. You, yourself accept some things on faith whether you realize it or not. You sit on a chair because you have faith it will hold you and not collapse even though you have no idea if it's true.

It's difficult for those of us who know for a fact what is true as it was proven to us to explain. You only know after it happens.

But bro, not sure what we are discussing now. First, at not point I put anyone in a box, I've simply been talking about the bible myths. People have the right to think whatever they like, no one put that into question. Everyone has their own personal views

Then, do you have your own idea of evolution, the 6 days, or the 6,000 years? Great, we are all entitled to personal opinions and views. Are there people who consider themselves Christians, or Jews, or Muslms, and practice science? Sure, of course there are many, and all good with that. I sit on a chair because I know that they are designed for me to sit on it, but if you do it out of faith, all fine by me. What I don't understand what does this has to do with the fact that there are no hard conclusive evidence to confirm the veracity of the Bible's myths. I'm not really seeing the connection, sorry.

Then fact are facts, and these cannot be contested. For example, is a fact that your user name is Blaine, and if anyone challenges that, that person is lying. So, when it comes to facts, it's impossible that some people see some facts and others don't. What you are saying is that you have your own opinions, ideas, speculations over the facts, and all cool with that. And I can also understand people having faith and totally respect that, but it's not what I was talking about.

Interesting thread. I was a history minor in college and one of the best classes I took was History of Christianity. It was taught via a non-theological approach by an actual Atheist. The professor actually looked like Jesus and that was a great running joke he would always talk about in class.

So basically for anyone that is claiming Jesus Christ didn’t exist I have bad news for you. The Roman Empire were excellent engineers and tax collectors and great at warfare but their art sucked. Greek art was way better. The Roman’s also excelled at Bureaucracy and documenting everything. The Roman Empire kept extensive records of Jesus of Nazareth and actually he is the most documented person that has ever existed at that time in antiquity . There are more records on him then any other individual at that time under Pontius Pilate.

99% of credentialed and respected historians all agree that based on the evidence we have from the Roman Empire he did exist. He had such a profound impact good and bad on the soldiers and the Roman’s that occupied what is modern day Israel this is why he was documented so much.

Jesus to me is the living son of God and the manifestation of Gods love on planet earth. Jesus’s teachings are an incredibly hard thing to 100% attain. I try though every day I really do but I am human and I fail. My favorite teaching of his is when people wanted to stone the prostitute and he said “ He who hath never sinned cast the first stone” This is the true definition of humility in my eyes. When I am quick to judge someone I often think of that story in the Bible and take a step back and re evaluate whatever is bothering me about that person.

I also love when he says to visit the sick and the prisoners in jail. Stay on the firing line of life I always say. Jesus said if you love the homeless and the prisoners you will be loving him as well.

a reply to: Brassmonkey

Hmm... I've been interested in history since I can remember, never followed a carrer on it because I had other passions, but did take some courses and half of my library is about history. I've never seen 1 single piece of hard evidence that confirmed the existence of the Jesus from the Bible. Not even one. But well, I do give you the benefit of the doubt, because you claim that he is your god, and no one would be so dishonest to lie in the name of their god. But could I ask you for some of all those proofs that you claim to be some abundant and I've never seen? I'm interested to see them.

Then, when you say: "99% of credentialed and respected historians all agree that based on the evidence we have from the Roman Empire he did exist." Could I ask you where did you take this statistic from? Has there been like an election at world level to reach this conclusion?... I ask you because 99% of all the respected historians and bible scholars that I crossed, all of them seem to agree that there is no conclusive evidence to confirm the existence of Jesus. Not saying that he didn't exist, if there was a man walking around 2.000 years ago, it's a bit impossible to confirm or refute... but so far I have not seen any hard proof to confirm it. Do you have it then?

a reply to: ltrz2025

Great questions. As long as you have an open mind and don’t have any contempt before investigation I would be happy to send you some evidence.

Virtually all scholars of antiquity accept that Jesus was a historical figure. Standard historical criteria have aided in evaluating the historicity of the gospel narratives, and only two key events are almost universally accepted, namely that Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist and crucified by order of the Roman prefect Pontius Pilate.

Anything else as far as miracles or getting raised from the dead if I Were to put myself in a objective historical non theological approach can’t really be proven scientifically.

Although I have faith they happened.

Historical evidence that Jesus of Nazareth existed from non-Christians at the time.

Roman historian
Tacitus, in his Annals (written c. AD 115), book 15, chapter 44,describes Nero's scapegoating of the Christians following the Fire of Rome. He writes that the founder of the sect was named Christus (the Christian title for Jesus); that he was executed under Pontius Pilate; and that the movement, initially checked, broke out again in Judea and even in Rome itself. The scholarly consensus is that Tacitus' reference to the execution of Jesus by Pilate is both authentic and of historical value as an independent Roman source.

Reference:
P.E. Easterling, E. J. Kenney (general editors), The Cambridge History of Latin Literature, p. 892 (Cambridge University Press, 1982, reprinted 1996) ISBN 0-521-21043-7



The extant manuscripts of the book Antiquities of the Jews, written by the first-century Jewish historian Flavius Josephus around AD 93–94, contain two references to Jesus of Nazareth and one reference to John the Baptist.


Reference:
Flavius Josephus; Maier, Paul L. (December 1995). Josephus, the essential works: a condensation of Jewish antiquities and The Jewish war. Kregel Academic. ISBN 978-0-8254-3260

One more piece of evidence:

Pliny the Younger, who was also governor in Asia Minor, wrote letters to Emperor Trajan around AD 112 describing Christians worshipping Jesus as a God:

“They (Christians) were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food, but of an ordinary and innocent kind ,” wrote Pliny in Epistles 10.96.

originally posted by: Quadrivium
a reply to: ltrz2025
What of the Jewish funerary inscriptions from Rome ?
www.livius.org...

Doesn't count, haven't you gotten this game yet?

Still not enough?
What will be enough?

No, cause any evidence that provides support for the Bible's historical accuracy is automatically invalid because it provides support for the Bible's historical accuracy. The only thing that counts are claims, arguments and interpretations of the facts provided by Bible critics arguing for the notion that the Bible is a book of "lies, myths and legends stolen from other places", never mind for example the admission made by The New Encyclopædia Britannica quoted before: “Archaeological criticism has tended to substantiate the reliability of the typical historical details of even the oldest periods [of Bible history] and to discount the theory that the Pentateuchal accounts [the historical records in the earliest books of the Bible] are merely the reflection of a much later period.”

The Roman destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE?
www.britannica.com...

I have a feeling nothing will be enough.

Ah see, you do get how this works.

“For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”] They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.” (2 Timothy 4:3,4)

Only those count, whatever false stories tickle his/her ears.

“For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”] They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.” (2 Timothy 4:3,4)

Only those count, whatever false stories tickle his/her ears.

What version is this? Is this talking about when even the elect will falter and in those times men will believe delusions and I will send them delusions to believe..loose quote..we talking about the same thing?