Who is Jesus to you?

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: ltrz2025
Your point was that hebrew and the Jewish culture was invented in the middle ages, which is still totally absurde.

WRONG AGAIN! You certainly have an inherent talent to be wrong in every post you make. Congratulations, an award should be given to you.

I never said that the Jewish culture was invented in the middle ages, apparently that's the conclusion you arrived to by yourself. I said that the OLDEST real references to "Jewish", "Hebrew", "Israel", that we have on record only start to appear during the middle ages. That's a fact. Before the middle ages, none of these words were recorded anywhere as the concepts we today know them for.

The same with Jesus of the bible, the OLDEST records we have of this character start to appear in the 5th century AD. That's 5 centuries after the dude allegedly lived and did all those miracles. We have nothing physical, before the 500 AD, which talks about the dude. Just to give you a bit of reference of how much time is that, 500 years ago from now, people thought that the earth was flat and that Colombus was going to fall from the edge...

Just as with Jesus, we have NOTHING dated before the middle ages that talks about "Israel", "Hebrews", "Jewish", "David" or "Solomon".

But right! I know. You don't like facts. You prefer lies and self-comforting whatevers. Great for you! I guess.

a reply to: ltrz2025

More over, there is no record of any "Hebrew" or "Israel" anywhere before the middle-ages.

That's what you said and the obvious intention behind it is your claim there are no cultural ancestors for a group that evolved into our modern Jews in antiquity.

Before the middle ages, none of these words were recorded anywhere as the concepts we today know them.

That's still not proving anything though, because none of our modern cultures or nations existed mostly up to the middle ages or later. They still exist today and still got a heritage that can be traced back through a lot of different groups and places.
So it's again your crazy expectations that are the issue.

a reply to: ltrz2025

Stop with the assertions of my religious leaning because I'm spending an inordinate amount of time defending the existence of The Ancient Israelites. I'm not debating the existence of god, I'm debating the existence of The ancient Israelites. For all You know I'm doing it for fun or a weird form of online masochism.

I will admit the evidence is lacking. The Canaanite inscriptions, extrabiblical evidence, and artifacts are few and far between. A shard of pottery with an inscription here or there isn't much, but temples were destroyed, changed, and rebuilt regardless.

The 12000 year old Gobekli Tepe wasn't even known about until 1994. It doesn't mean they didnt exist before their observatory complex thing was unearthed. Luckily it wasn't under constant siege over a protracted period so it's structure survived.

The problem is for things on The Temple Mount is the area has undergone more acts of war and occupation than any other single settlement on the planet. Definitely something of significance there. And since Israelite antiquity centers on this ONE settlement you're naturally hard pressed to find hard evidence because of ITS BLOODY AND VIOLENT HISTORY. I think the oldest remaining structure is the Western Wall, that was built by Herod during his reign.

Your demanding something that's not entirely possible. Its far easier to find evidence of Nebuchadnezzar II in Babylon, Iraq. There's TONS of evidence for that.

Even ones detailing the interactions with a mythical people definitely not in captivity there. These are like antique eminent domain contracts for the mythical people definitely not moved from Jerusalem.

www.reuters.com...

You must argue these cuneiform tablets are forgeries to maintain this charade. And if they are my fault for not fact checking better.

originally posted by: Peeple
That's what you said and the obvious intention behind it is your claim there are no cultural ancestors for a group that evolved into our modern Jews in antiquity.

It's not what I say. It's what the evidence we have says. For the 20th time, we have NOTHING dated before the middle ages that talks about "Israel", "Hebrews", "Jewish", "David" or "Solomon". All this thing of you talking about cultural ancestors or evolution, it's your own gibberish in your head. You are being faced with the facts and you are questioning yourself in your head, but direct it towards me, because you are not brave enough to take it.

originally posted by: Peeple
That's still not proving anything though, because none of our modern cultures or nations existed mostly up to the middle ages or later. They still exist today and still got a heritage that can be traced back through a lot of different groups and places.

You mean that the absence of evidence is not "disproving" the non existence of the mythical kingdom of Israel. Ok, sure, as I cannot 100% disprove that Jesus didn't walk on water either. But, there is no evidence of that, and all we know goes against that, just like with the myth of Israel. The evidence, darling, whether you complain or not, is on MY SIDE. The only thing you have on your side is wishful thinking.

What you fail to accept is that what we DO HAVE as evidence doesn't prove the kingdom of Israel existence. That's a fact. Moreover, Jewish scholars themselves have been refuting their own bible myths over and over and over again, for decades. They even keep hitting it, when it's already dead. And they still consider themselves Jewish! And you probably don't like this either... watcha gonna do!

originally posted by: Degradation33
a reply to: ltrz2025

Stop with the assertions of my religious leaning because I'm spending an inordinate amount of time defending the existence of The Ancient Israelites.

Why do you need to defend something that, according to you, it's an historical fact?... Interesting choice of words there.

originally posted by: Degradation33
The problem is for things on The Temple Mount is the area has undergone more acts of war and occupation than any other single settlement on the planet. Definitely something of significance there. And since Israelite antiquity centers on this ONE settlement you're naturally hard pressed to find hard evidence because of ITS BLOODY AND VIOLENT HISTORY.

Ok, so you have this hypothesis that claims that if there was ANY evidence for the mythical Israel, it was ALL erased due to the wars in the area. Ok, it's an hypothesis, sure. But this hypothesis still doesn't constitute ANY evidence for the actual existence of the place either. You are still in square one.

Plus, I can understand that some things could have been erased and gone. But what about the things that ARE there, which points out towards the possibility that ancient Israel was a complete myth?... Like the lies of the bible, or the stolen myths from other cultures that Jewish scholars themselves exposed?... How can you explain all those lies and forgeries with your "bloody and violent area" hypothesis?....

originally posted by: Degradation33
Your demanding something that's not entirely possible. Its far easier to find evidence of Nebuchadnezzar II in Babylon. There's TONS of evidence for that. Even ones detailing the interactions with mythical people definitely not in captivity. These are like antique eminent domain contracts for people definitely not moved from Jerusalem. You must argue these cuneiform tablets are forgeries to maintain this charade.

The tablets probably exist, it's very hard to forge tablets of that sort. What is a BLATTANT LIE is that those tables name "Israel", "Hebrews", or "Jews"... You provide this Reuters article which claims such thing but gives no proof of it, no record of any translation. This is quite common among the mass media. The mass media is all pro-zionist. You either are being taken for a fool by believing in something they provide no proof of, or you are dishonest as Reuters itself, and expect me to believe these lies face value. C'mon...

a reply to: ltrz2025

It's a direct quote from one of your posts. So...

It's kind of funny how you still try to cling to your image as 'expert' after that

First, his entire teachings and even concepts as the "messiah" contradicts much of the "jewish" cosmovision.

You lost every credibility and are just a joke.

I'm not into repeating myself over and over the fact remains that the cultural prehistoric evidence for the evolution of modern Jews is there, even if it's encrypted in the lore of different cultures that didn't use modern language.
Which is again: insane expectations on your end.

I won't repeat myself again.

a reply to: Peeple

Oh lala, you clearly lost it Peeple, your post made no sense at all.



Clearly you went back into my posts trying to find the "quote" that I supposedly wrote according to you. You didn't find it, because it's all in your imagination, like mostly everything of what you say. Too bad. Better luck next time.

The quote you posted about Messiah has NOTHING to do with this conversation we were having. You are literally losing it! Come back to earth, Peebles!... Houston, we have a problem! LMAO.

Then, your childish insults, keep them coming. In my ears, they sound like beautiful compliments. The last thing I would wish to be is in the same page with you. So, the more the better! Vent off, friend, let them all out.

Btw, it is hilarious that to see you repeating the part where you say that you won't repeat yourself, "again"! It's simply magical!

a reply to: ltrz2025

The tablets probably exist, it's very hard to forge tablets of that sort. What is a BLATTANT LIE is that those tables name "Israel", "Hebrews", or "Jews"...

You're not even reading these.

The tablets, each inscribed in minute Akkadian script, detail trade in fruits and other commodities, taxes paid, debts owed and credits accumulated.

The exhibition details one Judean family over four generations, starting with the father, Samak-Yama, his son, grandson and his grandson’s five children, all with Biblical Hebrew names, many of them still in use today.

“We even know the details of the inheritance made to the five great-grandchildren,” said Vukosavovic. “On the one hand it’s boring details, but on the other you learn so much about who these exiled people were and how they lived.”

Just a name in Hebrew, right? Doesn't necessarily mean they are an exiled Jewish family just that they have biblical names.

Troll on and have the final word now.

originally posted by: Degradation33
The tablets, each inscribed in minute Akkadian script, detail trade in fruits and other commodities, taxes paid, debts owed and credits accumulated. The exhibition details one Judean family over four generations, starting with the father, Samak-Yama, his son, grandson and his grandson’s five children, all with Biblical Hebrew names, many of them still in use today.

It's not about the last word. It's about contrasting arguments to see which one holds.

So, just because Reuters tells you, you actually believe that they were writing "Hebrew" names in Akkadian script?... LOL, I don't really think you know how that works. At that stage and place, it was all Akkadian, no Hebrew... Then you are definitely being taken for a fool. You (and Reuters) are still trying to define things from 500 BC as "Hebrew" when there are NO RECORDS of the word "Hebrew" until the middle ages. How does that 1.500 years difference - hyperbole work?...

In fact, everything that the pro-zionist scholars refer as "Hebrew" before the middle ages, is always Phoenician alphabet inscriptions, or some few Akkadian ones. So, how could the same nation have two different alphabets?... Where they schizophrenic? No, it's just that they were two different peoples. Also, haven't you noticed by now that all the inscriptions you found in Wikipedia trying to confirm the story of David are in Phoenician (aka Canaanite) alphabet?

What the scholars call "paleo-Hebrew" is Phoenician alphabet. That has been demonstrated time after time... but the pro-zionists and pro-bible spooks cling to that obvious lie called "ancient Hebrew language" because, otherwise, their whole castle collapses. It's literally hanging from a thread that it's already cut....

Newsflash for you darling: The media (especially Reuters), loves to lie. Where have you been the last three years?... Are you quintupled boosted and wearing your triple mask?...

a reply to: ltrz2025

Oh my you poor thing. It's in this thread you didn't 'supposedly' write it, it's in this thread.

Also

The quote you posted about Messiah has NOTHING to do with this conversation

What's this thread about?
Super funny...

a reply to: ltrz2025

So, just because Reuters tells you, you actually believe that they were writing "Hebrew" names in Akkadian script?... LOL

I can transcribe my English name into Akkadian. There's websites that will make a custom cuneiform tablet with your name in Akkadian. What's so implausible about Hebrew name transcribed to Akkadian in antiquity?

Like saying you can't write Hellenistic (Greek) names in heiroglyphs. Websites for that one too.

What the scholars call "paleo-Hebrew" is Phoenician alphabet. That has been demonstrated time after time..

That is a fallacy., I'm not sure which one at the moment. Phoenician and Paleo Hebrew are sibling languages and direct continuations of the proto-canaanite alphabet. Phoenician is no more or less valid or ripped off than paleo-hebrew.

Sorry to quote the lies of Zionists more but...

While no extant inscription in the Phoenician alphabet is older than c. 1050 BC,[29] Proto-Canaanite is used for the early alphabets as used during the 13th and 12th centuries BC in Phoenicia.[30] However, the Phoenician, Hebrew, and other Canaanite dialects were largely indistinguishable before the 11th century BC, and the writing system is essentially identical.[11] A possible example of Proto-Canaanite, the inscription on the Ophel pithos, was found in 2012 on a pottery storage jar during the excavations of the south wall of the Temple Mount by Israeli archaeologist Eilat Mazar in Jerusalem.

Your intelectual dishonesty is out of the charts at this point. The way you cherry pick some of my arguments and leave others behind is obvious. But good, keep doing it. It just shows on which side the honesty is. At least you recognize that zionists lies, that's good. The Phoenician and the Proto-Canaanite alphabets are the same thing with very small variations and its origin dates back to 1800 BC.

You can copy paste whatever you want from Zionists sources, it will still not refute the archaeological records that anyone with half a brain can verify. That is, if they manage to jump the Google gatekeeping tactics, of course. By the way, the Phoenicians who invented this alphabet (and its the root of the alphabet which we are using just now, that is why it's called Phonetic, not "Hebraic") used their alphabet to describe who they were, what they did and what they believed in... something completely different from your "fictional Hebrews", who apparently had this amazing alphabet, but never wrote anything about themselves or their culture. Quite dull as people, if they really existed....

Language is a SOPHISTICATED thing to invent and to develop. According to the jewish myths you love to uphold, these ancient Hebrews went from wandering the deserts with no food or water, to invent and develop a sophisticated language that they never used to describe themselves?... Who can fall for such a ridiculous thing?... oh yeah, completely brainwashed people.

originally posted by: Degradation33
a reply to: ltrz2025
I can transcribe my English name into Akkadian. There's websites that will make a custom cuneiform tablet with your name in Akkadian. What's so implausible about Hebrew name transcribed to Akkadian in antiquity?

That's because today there is an English language and an Akkadian language. Again, there was nothing called "Hebrew", "Israelite", or "Jewish", before the middle ages.

originally posted by: Degradation33
That is a fallacy., I'm not sure which one at the moment. Phoenician and Paleo Hebrew are sibling languages and direct offspring of the proto-canaanite alphabet. Phoenician is no more or less valid or ripped off than paleo-hebrew.

You can think it's a fallacy all you want and it's your right to. However, for any person who has eyes and is not so deeply emotional invested in this like you, those two alphabets are the same one. You can call it whatever you want, try to cover it with your hands, it will just convince the eco chamber you call your mind, no one else. And you are making yourself look like a fool in this. The issue of the fake "ancient hebrew", vs. the modern hebrew, vs. the ancient phoenician and akkadian writings has been EXTENSIVELY discussed for over a century now. You and Reuters can say all you want. But the reality is that anyone who looks into it seriously, won't believe you or Reuters, at all. And that's ALL that matters, but you don't see the wave coming...

Plus, you claim this "paleo-Hebrew" to exist, but there are no records of anything called "Hebrew" anywhere until the middle ages.And your small mind is continuously going in circles around this non stop. So, according to your reasoning, these alleged "ancient Hebrews" had a sophisticated written language, but they didn't know how to write their ethnicity (Hebrews), the name of their nation (Israel), their religious identity (Jewish), or the name of their most famous kings (David and Solomon).... Sounds like the stupidest people in the history of humankind.... No one is that stupid. These people were simply not there.

You've been lied to you all your life, not only by Reuters, but probably also by many people who supposedly cared for you and your "education". Lying is one of the cruelest forms of spiritual abuse that a human can inflict on another. Because lies DENIES the truth, it denies what things are and leads to darkness. Sorry that this happened to you, honestly. But, you should now that, disregarding of the trauma you have been exposed to, the wave keeps coming, and coming.... it's not about you.

Now yes, night night and I hope those quintuple mRNA clot-shots and triple masks that Reuters promote and you are surely wearing are keeping you safe!!!!

a reply to: ltrz2025

Sorry.

I'm going to have to end this now. You are incapable of acknowledging anything contradictory to your anti-zionism. You have made no valid arguments, but used mostly fallacy to maintain a provocative position while never defending the incongruities of your argument.

You scoff at any evidence and trash it's source if it contradicts your opinion, which will never accept that it might be wrong about this one. You would rather say it's the pro-zionist lies of the media to validate a mythical people.

And stop using the argument that the word "Jew" wasn't used until 1275 in Middle English. There is an entire etymolgy, that you also dismiss that led to that.

I guess we are equally stubborn on this one. But congratulations for the 14 hours I wasted for you "arguments".

It's up to reader as to which one of us is denying ignorance here.

a reply to: ltrz2025

You know how the inhabitants in ancient Egypt called themselves?

..."remetch en Kermet", which means the "People of the Black Land".

Maybe you want to meditate what this comparable tale implies for your argument?

Over the millenniums, Egypt has had many names in many different languages. Today, its official name is Junhuriyah Misr al-Arabiyah, which in English means the Arab Republic of Egypt. Egyptians themselves refer to Egypt as Misr, though this can also be a name for Cairo. Interestingly, it is common for Egyptians to refer to Egypt as Misr, if they are resident in Cairo, but if outside of Cairo, then they will refer to Cairo as Misr. In a certain respect, this is a custom that dates to the earliest times of ancient Egypt.

source

Because throwing out crass lines like this

Your intelectual dishonesty is out of the charts at this point.

while your position is silly as it is, makes probably not just me questioning your 'intelectual honesty'

I mean I don't care but for you I hope you are at least having fun.
You know from one obnoxious know-it-all to another:
You didn't think this through. And assume your half-baked ideas hold any merit.

Can you understand that there is no country called as it identifies itself? Let alone a 'tribe' or kingdom from pre-history? They still exist. On the example of Egypt: from your argument one can only deduct Egypt is an invention, because people with that name haven't ever existed and were invented by a story teller from before history was invented (Homer) used Aegyptus'.
Can you see how absurde it is from that fact to declare the civilisation/people/culture/kingdom never existed?


For what it's worth, Degradation33
I enjoyed your contributions.

It is interesting to see just how passionate some people are about defining Jesus. As for all the history, I don't know, lots of things happened. I am struggling to clearly define just what exactly is going on in the world today, let alone something 2K years ago.

With the current calendar starting around the time of Jesus, seams like something significant happened in terms of culture.

How Jesus was big on forgiveness can be a challenging one. I did try it one day and it felt like some big heavy burned just fell away. It had been there for so long I just got use to it being there.

a reply to: kwakakev

Jesus is the word, and the word is God. Jesus didn't humble himself to the cross so you could steal a candy bar. He allowed himself to be sacrificed so that you could be pardoned for having done so should you seek it.

a reply to: filthyphilanthropist

Thanks for trying to explain it. I can see a lot of improvements have been made with the justice system since those days. Still had to go through my punishments that I accept, at least I did not get crucified over it.

Finding some shoulder to lean on when times are tough helps.

a reply to: ltrz2025

You're a crackpot trying to rewrite history with a negative number IQ. According to you, Jesus could not have existed at all, not just the Jews, Essenes or whatever. So YOU prove that he existed i.e. where he was born, who he was born to, his social history, the events that the biblical record recounts. According to you, no Jews existed, therefore, he didn't exist.

So now it's up to YOU to prove that Jesus actually existed.

Brain fried. DOA.

a reply to: kwakakev

Sometimes I think through Jesus' teachings such as forgiving or helping others that it is actually permission for us to forgive and love/heal ourselves; outer and inner forgiveness? One of the core messages, walk in the way of love.

When I was younger and working in the big city I would go out for a walk each day during my lunchtime and pass many people. People walking with their heads downcast, people looking unhappy, people hurrying...so one day I thought I'd start smiling at people that I met/passed on the sidewalk and surprisingly my smile brought many smiles to the faces of strangers. I still remember their smiles and how their eyes met my eyes.

I still try to do that today, usually while at work, because I don't live in a city and my walks are rural and I normally don't meet other people except while at work or at a market. The point is to try to walk in love, try to show goodwill as most of us respond positively to love, a kind word, or a smile.

Ridiculous, lies and total dishonesty.

originally posted by: Degradation33
a reply to: ltrz2025
I'm going to have to end this now. You are incapable of acknowledging anything contradictory to your anti-zionism. You have made no valid arguments, but used mostly fallacy to maintain a provocative position while never defending the incongruities of your argument.

I'm anti-lies, anti-wars, anti-invasion, anti-death, anti-destruction of people's homes. Anti-zionism, as anti-islamic extremism, are simply consequences of the first. I'm sorry that I try to be a good person to my fellow human being, how bad of me. So, I have no valid arguments, and for many hours you dedicated to challenge me?... and you still have not been able to present a hard piece of evidence for any of your claims?... You are calling yourself stupid and not even realizing it.

Then, the only provocative thing here is that there is a whole fictional myth (the kingdom of Israel), from which we have no hard evidence of (that you acknowledged), but that google and some liars, media, with political agendas push on others, to keep the people divided and in conflict. I agree, that's very provocative and should push people to fight the lies.

originally posted by: Degradation33
You scoff at any evidence and trash it's source if it contradicts your opinion, which will never accept that it might be wrong about this one. You would rather say it's the pro-zionist lies of the media to validate a mythical people.

Looking at the evidence is all I did. You are childish, this is not about me being right or wrong. It's about which historical theory has hard evidence behind. I don't trash any evidence, on the contrary, I value it for it's worth. Different from you, who read 1 stone which says something totally unclear and you take it as hard evidence.

Also, differently from Reuters, I'm not going to lie to you by telling you that "Hebrew" things were discovered in the 500 BC, when we don't have any record of anything "Hebrew" until 1.500 years later. That's dishonest. At least Reuters could say "we believe it could be ancient Hebrew, but have no hard way to back that up, it could also be simply Akkadian", which would make them honest. But no, they decide to lie you in your face, and you enjoy it. Excellent sources, for sure. Just like google.

I simply pointed out which evidence is hard, and which other is contested and flimsy. The very few evidence you found and presented are contested and flimsy, and these are not my judgements. The people who contests those evidences with excellent arguments are Jewish scholars themselves, as you've seen in the wikipedia links you've shared.

These same Jewish scholars are the same ones who demonstrated extensively the lies in the Bible (like Exodus, or Moses, or Genesis, etc.) and the stolen myths, cultural appropriations from other nations. You point your finger at me when I played no role in that. All these lies that are exposed by Jewish scholars themselves PROVE how full much bullcrap and ill intent are in the biblical accounts are, and are a clear evidence that all the unbacked myths that this book tells us should be QUESTIONED and DOUBTED, until real hard evidence is presented. Including the very existence of the mythical kingdom of Israel. Otherwise, do we just have to believe in any book or writing face value, without real evidence?... Ridiculous position of yours.

When you say that I don't accept, it's just basic psychological projection from a small mind who cannot face the facts, which you already saw: there are no hard evidence of any "Israel", "Hebrew", "Jew", "David", "Solomon", before the middle ages. Deal with it and let me out of your cognitive dissonance after facing the facts.

Yes, people sometimes lie to push their agendas. Welcome to the world. That's what honest archaeologists, historians, scholars are constantly doing: fighting lies, forgeries, misrepresentations (like calling "hebrew" to alphabets and names that are clearly Phoenician or Akkadian). Fighting lies is what you clearly don't like, you just want everyone to believe in a mythical kingdom with no hard evidence to back it up, because apparently is the "zionist" thing to do. Clear. Just because Reuters and Google says it, lol. I don't need to explain what zionism is or how it works... the entire world knows it for 7 decades now.