Breaking- Russia abandons Ukrainian city of Kherson in major retreat

The root cause of the war is water. Kherson is vital to Crimea's water with the Dnipr river. It smells like a trap, but only time will tell.

a reply to: TrueAmerican

Suppose it could be done without nukes and still make a hell of a mess.

I just don't see Russia walking away from the only regional capital its managed to capture since invading without some sort of fight or serious repercussions.

Putin's ego simply would not allow it to happen or go down like that surely.

My guess is Russia's new strategy is fight in the east near Russia's border. It is easy for Russia to supply and difficult for Ukraine. This is a war that lasts years if not decades.

originally posted by: TrueAmerican
a reply to: Gothmog

You know, you drive-by posters really get on my nerves. Accuse, accuse- and you couldn't even be bothered to read the link in the OP.

THE FRICKEN TERMS ABANDONED AND RETREAT ARE IN THE DAMN REUTERS STORY NEWS ARTICLE TITLE.

JESUS!

SMDH!

Here read!
Russia abandons Ukrainian city of Kherson in major retreat

LINK SPOON FED TO YOU AGAIN:
www.reuters.com...

Man I swear. Some people got all the nerve.

Drive by ?
I am here . I Have things to do , unlike some folks who have parents to do all for them .

So , where did Reuters get that ? hmmmmm ?
That IS not what was stated . Read your OP again .
It was stated the Russians were ordered to "withdraw"
See , you fell for it .
Again .
Read the direct words , not the glorification that media adds to "fool ya"

The withdraw to the east side of the river serves 2 purposes. 1, it frees up the troops to take Donbas and possibly Zaporezhia. 2, it alleviates the danger in case in the Kakhovka dam is targeted and breaks.

There's a video by Emil Cosman who analysis it.

Also, it is worth noting the Chinese have great interest in Motor Sich in Zaporezhia city. And the Chinese can blackmail the Russians to take Zaporezhia city so they can have Motor Sich. The Chinese can say to the Russians, if you do not take Motor Sich, then no more consumer electronics and automobiles for you, and Russia will collapse without such necessities. Then Russians will have to oblige and take Zaporezhia. But they they troops to do that. And where's the troops going to come from? From the west side of the Dnipr river. Anyway, just my 2 cents.

a reply to: YellowRiverMan

I think its more than just that.

1.) by withdrawing to the east side of the river, they create a primary defensible position that an enemy would have to pass into through an exposed situation. Namely crossing the river.
2.) 2nd The city, while on the west side of the river, will no doubt have been boottrapped, and will cost lives to take
3.) winter is approaching, and its better for the enemy to have to support and take care of a population, then you, as the reality is someone has to feed the citizens, provide medical, etc. Let the enemy do it over the winter
4.) Ukraine does not have enough troops to attack across the river. They didn't have enough to take the city, forcing them to take the city further dilutes their forces, and eliminates the ability to press further there, as now they have to police and control the city.
5.) typically to attack you need 3-4X the amount of defending troops. With Ukraine forces diluted, they can send reinforcements to other fronts, especially given that now they have a defensible position, prepared defenses, and the cost to take them is much higher, namely 5-10X the troops there.

From my perspective its beneficial for Russia to withdraw now, let ukraine feed them over winter, most troops elsewhere, and come spring, surround and knock out the ukrainians defending.

Camain

a reply to: YellowRiverMan
That's also a possibility.
Rainbows
Jane

a reply to: YellowRiverMan
And also a good reason why Russia wont 'nuke' Kherson
Rainbows
Jane

a reply to: randomthoughts12

Turning points are a product of historians who study and publish works with the benefit of historical hindsight. But how the participants viewed those vastly different in those moments.

Moreover, a potential Russian Battle of the Bulge-style counter-offensive is doomed to fail. Lousy Russian logistics, institutional corruption, no mobile reserves, and not having air supremacy ensures that outcome.

Russia's primary objective in the war is taking Crimea and Donbas to increase their population to 150 million. Kherson is not necessary. It is only a secondary objective. The freed troops can be used to take the remaining part of Donbas.

originally posted by: YellowRiver
Russia's primary objective in the war is taking Crimea and Donbas to increase their population to 150 million. Kherson is not necessary. It is only a secondary objective. The freed troops can be used to take the remaining part of Donbas.

Russia's objectives change like my daughter's moods. The original objectives (remember them) were to over-run Ukraine and replace the government with a puppet, thus keeping Ukraine under the Russian jackboot. Putin said his aim was to "demilitarise and de-Nazify Ukraine". That went well, eh?

Now Russia is just trying to keep hold of the territory they are occupying. The retreat from Kherson is avoiding a catastrophic defeat, through an inability to resupply the defenders. Nothing would harm Putin more than a few thousand emaciated troops surrendering. Simply put, Russia could stay, fight and lose, or run away.

Still hoping Ukraine will liberate all land occupied illegal by a belligerent Russia, but mindful that it will probably be over Putin's dead body that this will happen.

originally posted by: YellowRiver
Russia's primary objective in the war is taking Crimea and Donbas to increase their population to 150 million. Kherson is not necessary. It is only a secondary objective. The freed troops can be used to take the remaining part of Donbas.

Nope sorry that was not Russia's objective. I watched Sergei Markov in an interview around last Christmas and he stated Moscow wanted the Donbas and all the way to Odessa cutting off Ukraine having access to the sea. Being fair he did state there was no way Russia would want the Nazi (as he put it) leaning west, as it would be uncontrollable long term, yet he certainly made out that Putin wanted to cut Ukraine off from he Black Sea thus taking control of all the back in the day New Russia

a reply to: YellowRiver

Seems to me Russia's primary objective was to overrun the better part of Ukraine and take the capitol city.

If in doubt well take a look at their troop deployments and movements during the initial phase of the invasion.

Fact of the matter is Russia failed to secure and achieve her objectives within the first 3 days.

And the main reason why is because the people of Ukraine choose not to roll over and capitulate to a foreign invasion of their lands.

They simply were not welcomed with the open arms, champagne cocktails, and garlands of flowers around their necks that they though they would be.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ufoorbhunter


God help the poor sods given the nation's track record, i really hope they are ok and can return safely to Kherson at some point in the not-to-distant future.

Wouldn't surprise me if the residents go through brainwashing in Russia then become Russian's in state of mind. Russia's first actions in its occupied regions was to dismiss the education personnel and replace them with teachers etc sent in from Russia proper to re-educate the native population. Scary stuff straight out of Adolf's play book. Russia is good at that sort of thing.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

We've been 'guilty' of a lot of things in the past, there's no denying that.
But nothing like this on the scale or the disturbing frequency that Russia seems to do it.

Its almost as if its accepted and expected.

True and one does almost feel it's accepted and expected. In many ways that sums up how much of the world will be seeing Russia's invasion. Countries like India, China, Brazil they will all have expected and accepted the action whatever they state in public. They all piss in the same pot behind these scenes.

Kherson was annexed by Russia in September. Currently Russians consider it Russian city temporarily occupied by Ukrainians. While it is true Russian army left Kherson city, they continue to see it as Russian land.

I do believe Russians have diverted 30,000 troops from Kherson to Donbas to take Bakhmut which is more strategic for the Russians due to abundance of coal which they can export to China and India for money.

twitter.com...

a reply to: YellowRiverChina

Kherson was annexed by Russia in September.

Down to sham referendums held in half occupied territories that returned the likes of 96% numbers in Russia's favor.

Pull the other one Mr Putin it has bells on.

? is Russia retreating or evacuating before a tactical nuke goes Boom !

i think the tactical nuke is 55% reasonable