Abortions - Why so bad?

a reply to: Sookiechacha

If I may,

Why is "living" in your equation? The ovum and sperm were alive before conception. Conception doesn't convey life; life was already there.

Exactly.
The sperm and ovum are haploid cells. They contain 23 chromosomes.
Once they meet, a diploid cell is formed.
This new cell has 46 chromosomes and is the beginning of a new human beings life.

Can you tell me the difference between a fetus and child, in your mind? Otherwise, I'm having a hard time understanding the question

The difference?
Location. That's about it.

As far as a cut off point for abortion, the status quo, which I support, has been viability. When a fetus can survive outside the womb, without heroic measures, that is when a fetus is viable.

Abortion is the premeditated killing of another human being for convenience, in 99% of cases.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Annee

I wasn't talking to you. We've established your extremist opinion.

You're now using this fitting in "box" reply to everyone that doesn't agree with you. At least try some originality with your responses or is that all you have?

You're the one living in a box that thinks everyone should bend to your will and feelings. You can't fathom people thinking for themselves or having an opinion which doesn't fit into a group think ideology. Hence you stereotype everyone.

My thinking is logical and realistic for today's modern world.

We don't need to pump out an entire farm crew to save the crops.

Nor do we need to pump out multiples to ensure one or two survives -- due to modern medicine, vaccinations, etc.

A woman can choose how she wants to live her life -- without interference from outside forces.

Society evolves.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

This is an open forum.

You are not in charge. It isn't even your OP.

You really need to stop trying to control the narrative.

a reply to: Quadrivium

Yeah, we get it. You worship biology. You've made that clear. Biology is your god. It's sacred to you because it represents "God's will" in your mind.

We have dominion over nature and biology to the degree of our scientific experience. Not to exercise the leverage we have over nature and biology is to choose to be victims of nature and biology.

a reply to: Annee

You should lay off whatever you're smoking.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Annee

You should lay off whatever you're smoking.

Keeps me from being STUCK.

Actually, even though I was in the Hippie Era -- never dig drugs.

Chose the welfare of my kids over getting high.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

So at what point is a foetus viable?

Do we cut them out and leave on a table to see if they survive?

Many children are born, survive and are loved who need medical intervention to survive outside the womb. Yet, they’re still human beings and go on to live full and happy lives. Maybe we should stop using ventilators in maternity wards.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Quadrivium

Yeah, we get it. You worship biology. You've made that clear. Biology is your god. It's sacred to you because it represents "God's will" in your mind.

We have dominion over nature and biology to the degree of our scientific experience. Not to exercise the leverage we have over nature and biology is to choose to be victims of nature and biology.

You just don't see how backwards and warped that kind of thinking is.
You are condoning the death of other human beings, you can not deny it, so you attack.
Weak and Childish.

originally posted by: Quadrivium

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Quadrivium

Yeah, we get it. You worship biology. You've made that clear. Biology is your god. It's sacred to you because it represents "God's will" in your mind.

We have dominion over nature and biology to the degree of our scientific experience. Not to exercise the leverage we have over nature and biology is to choose to be victims of nature and biology.

You just don't see how backwards and warped that kind of thinking is.
You are condoning the death of other human beings, you can not deny it, so you attack.
Weak and Childish.

What seems hypocritical to me is that through our taxes to government and government spending it on war, aren't we all guilty of condoning death of other human beings to some degree?

a reply to: Quadrivium

You are condoning the death of other human beings, you can not deny it

I can and do deny it.

This is not a human being.

a reply to: quintessentone

What seems hypocritical to me is that through our taxes to government and government spending it on war, aren't we all guilty of condoning death of other human beings to some degree?

Did you personally premeditate the killing of an individual human being, for your own convenience, in any war?

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Quadrivium

You are condoning the death of other human beings, you can not deny it

I can and do deny it.

This is not a human being.

Sure it is.
If that is a picture of a human zygote, it is a human being at the beginning of their life cycle.

The only difference between you and the zygote is one of form and location.
That is it.

Every human being, on earth, started their life cycle in the exact same way, at the exact same point.

Again, you are so stuck on "being human" you do not understand what it means to be a human being.

Abortion is the premeditated killing of another human being for convenience, in 99% of cases.

You may deny it, but you can not argue it, realistically or objectively.

a reply to: Quadrivium

The only difference between you and the zygote is one of form and location.

LOL...What a load of BS!

Form and location...LOL

Again, you are so stuck on "being human" you do not understand what it means to be a human being.

I do. And, it includes free will, autonomy and self-determination, things a zygote doesn't possess.

a reply to: Annee

My thinking is logical and realistic for today's modern world.

We don't need to pump out an entire farm crew to save the crops.

Nor do we need to pump out multiples to ensure one or two survives -- due to modern medicine, vaccinations, etc.

So...
You don't believe in God
You think you are god...

Here, you admit willfully advocating the death of millions of human beings because of your views.
Like Mao.
Like Hitler.
Like Stalin.
Like Mussolini.
You have a very warped outlook on humanity and 'reality' ("your truth").

originally posted by: Quadrivium
a reply to: Annee

My thinking is logical and realistic for today's modern world.

We don't need to pump out an entire farm crew to save the crops.

Nor do we need to pump out multiples to ensure one or two survives -- due to modern medicine, vaccinations, etc.

So...
You don't believe in God
You think you are god...

Here, you admit willfully advocating the death of millions of human beings because of your views.
Like Mao.
Like Hitler.
Like Stalin.
Like Mussolini.
You have a very warped outlook on humanity and 'reality' ("your truth").

Atheism means one thing only -- LACK OF BELIEF IN A GOD/DEITY.

Actions taken by anyone has nothing to do with being atheist.

Atheist is not a verb.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

LOL...What a load of BS!

Because you don't understand?
Or refuse to?

Form and location...LOL

Yes, form and location.
Form- We continually change throughout our life cycle. Are you the same form you were when you were born?
No, during each stage we change.
Location- They are in a different environment. Their location is different than yours.
Form and location.

I do. And, it includes free will, autonomy and self-determination, things a zygote doesn't possess.

See?
You keep proving my point.
You keep thinking of "being human" instead of human being.
Does a newborn have freewill?
Does a toddler?
Do you advocate killing them too?

They have autonomy in their current environment.
They have the self-determination to grow and mature.

That is, from the zygote stage onward, the human embryo has within it all of the internal information needed—including chiefly its genetic and epigenetic constitution—and the active disposition to develop itself to the mature stage of a human organism. As long as the embryo is reasonably healthy and is not denied or deprived of a suitable environment and adequate nutrition, it will actively develop itself along the species-specific trajectory of development.
.....
The human embryo is the same individual as the human organism at subsequent stages of development. The evidence for this is the genetic and epigenetic composition of this being—that is, the embryo's molecular composition is such that he or she has the internal resources to develop actively himself or herself to the next mature stage—and the typical embryo's regular, predictable and observable behaviour—that is, the embryo's actual progression through an internally coordinated and complex sequence of development to his or her mature stage.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Quadrivium
a reply to: Annee

My thinking is logical and realistic for today's modern world.

We don't need to pump out an entire farm crew to save the crops.

Nor do we need to pump out multiples to ensure one or two survives -- due to modern medicine, vaccinations, etc.

So...
You don't believe in God
You think you are god...

Here, you admit willfully advocating the death of millions of human beings because of your views.
Like Mao.
Like Hitler.
Like Stalin.
Like Mussolini.
You have a very warped outlook on humanity and 'reality' ("your truth").

Atheism means one thing only -- LACK OF BELIEF IN A GOD/DEITY.

Actions taken by anyone has nothing to do with being atheist.

Atheist is not a verb.

I did not say you believed in God.
I said you THINK you are god.
Do atheist not think?

Besides, the post really wasn't about Atheism....
It was more about the mindset of those like you.
Most of the people I named, in the post, were atheist as well.

a reply to: Quadrivium

Let me perfunctory clear.

This is not a child. This is not a newborn, This is not a toddler.

originally posted by: Quadrivium

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Quadrivium
a reply to: Annee

My thinking is logical and realistic for today's modern world.

We don't need to pump out an entire farm crew to save the crops.

Nor do we need to pump out multiples to ensure one or two survives -- due to modern medicine, vaccinations, etc.

So...
You don't believe in God
You think you are god...

Here, you admit willfully advocating the death of millions of human beings because of your views.
Like Mao.
Like Hitler.
Like Stalin.
Like Mussolini.
You have a very warped outlook on humanity and 'reality' ("your truth").

Atheism means one thing only -- LACK OF BELIEF IN A GOD/DEITY.

Actions taken by anyone has nothing to do with being atheist.

Atheist is not a verb.

I did not say you believed in God.
I said you THINK you are god.
Do atheist not think?

Besides, the post really wasn't about Atheism....
It was more about the mindset of those like you.
Most of the people I named, in the post, were atheist as well.

You are making no sense.

I was raised Christian. I know that belief. My guess is you have never been atheist. "Speak what you know" -- otherwise you sound ignorant.

"It’s simple really, Atheism doesn’t kill people, Fanaticism kills people, be that religious or political."

All of them have one common cause, in each instance they were psychopaths. Note that I’m not using that as a form of insult, I’m giving you a diagnosis. A psychopath is somebody who manifests superficial charm, Grandiose sense of self-worth, is cunning and manipulative, lacks remorse or guilt, is callous, has a lack of empathy, and fails to accept responsibility for their own actions. www.skeptical-science.com...

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Quadrivium

You are condoning the death of other human beings, you can not deny it

I can and do deny it.

This is not a human being.

Thats what human beings look like at that stage, we're just not used to seeing it as its all inside.

A baby doesnt look like a human at that rate.

Trash argument IMHO

a reply to: Quadrivium

Does a newborn have freewill? Does a toddler? Do you advocate killing them too?

Good point.

If, as suggested that baby's know and are aware of their gender at birth, then it makes sense to say they know in the womb.