Abortions - Why so bad?

a reply to: Boadicea

Yes, as i said everyone has their reasons and coping mechanisms, sometimes the thoughts of guilt seem to manifest in a way that shirks blame. Just because it's a painful subject for some, doesn't give them the right to dismiss my personal opinion.

a reply to: Tipulatedone

It's been made into an issue by the unrelenting demands of abortion on demand Liberals.

The Conservatives tried to compromise with a law that mimicked the rest of the civilized world, with a 15 week ban. Well within the most common abortion laws of 12-18 weeks.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

originally posted by: NorthOfStuff

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Tipulatedone
So first I just want to say this is my very first thread!
Ive been a long time reader of ATS but never posted or commented until the last few days.

Now i thought i would start off with a perhaps rather controversial question...

Why do people think Abortions are so bad?
I suppose this question is mainly aimed at the American people as over here in the UK (Wales) no one seems to give a rat ass about it.
Ive tried asking the question on various message boards/youtube comments etc but noone ever seems to reply.

No right or wrong answers of course just want to see peoples thoughts!

Fundamental Christians. That is the #1 reason.


Dominionism Rising
A Theocratic Movement Hiding in Plain Sight

Dominionism is the theocratic idea that regardless of theological view, means, or timetable, Christians are called by God to exercise dominion over every aspect of society by taking control of political and cultural institutions.

politicalresearch.org...

Good for them.

You mention it like it’s a bad thing.

Do you see something wrong with babies and Christians?

Forcing personal Christian beliefs on others or legislating religious beliefs into law is wrong. Forcing birth and parenthood on those who can't, won't or don't want it is wrong.

You’re funny. I hope you have lots of babies.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Boadicea

Yes, as i said everyone has their reasons and coping mechanisms, sometimes the thoughts of guilt seem to manifest in a way that shirks blame. Just because it's a painful subject for some, doesn't give them the right to dismiss my personal opinion.

You're right. Good people can disagree. And with a little effort, find common middle ground.

Unfortunately, both sides have been trying to shut down the other side, with no respect or understanding for what the other side has to say, and the legitimate concerns on both sides. Much of the abuse is quite sexist, but there are legitimate concerns to be considered. This thread has been on the rational, reasonable and thoughtful side. But this thread has been the exception.

When I say I wish I could be "pro-life" in the political sense, I mean it. But the abuse I've seen piled on to women and the absolutely vile names they have been called has been a shocker to me. I cannot trust those hating on women to write proper legislation that take into account the women's rights and needs.... and, likewise, we cannot trust those hating on men to take into account their rights and needs.

a reply to: Grenade

P.S. I also want to add that I've really enjoyed (for want of a better word) our discussion, and I appreciate that we've been able to agree on a few things -- including agreeing to disagree -- while discussing various aspects of it all.

Thank you!

a reply to: poncho1982

It's been made into an issue by the unrelenting demands of abortion on demand Liberals.

That just isn't true. In reality abortion stats were the lowest that they'd been since the 1970s, and had been getting lower every year for the past 15 years.

The Conservatives tried to compromise with a law that mimicked the rest of the civilized world, with a 15 week ban. Well within the most common abortion laws of 12-18 weeks.

I would gladly accept the European model for here in the USA. Not only is abortion on demand legal through-out those early weeks, they have broad exceptions for fetal anomalies and the mother health and welfare. They have universal healthcare that subsidizes all abortions and women don't have find the money and don't have to jump through all kinds of hoops to get one. Also, they have paid family leave, some countries as much 6 months. Britain gives most working pre-school parents 30 hours of free child care each week.

If we were to actually "mimicked the rest of civilized world" , I'd be all in!

a reply to: Grenade

Yes, as i said everyone has their reasons and coping mechanisms, sometimes the thoughts of guilt seem to manifest in a way that shirks blame. Just because it's a painful subject for some, doesn't give them the right to dismiss my personal opinion.

Yes. I have the right to completely dismiss your opinion. As do you mine.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Meh I was willing to listen and find common ground, your first interaction with me was personal abuse.

You’re right, you can do what you please, except have a legal abortion.

Chew on that.

Thye 100% lost me when they started talking about up to and during, and in some freak show areas right after birth abortions.

I get health of the mother, I understand rape and incest abortions, I understand major physical/developmental problem abortions, its the perfectly viable healthy children being aborted I personally find repugnant. I dont personally hold it against people that chose this route, but being older now and knowing a few women that did it and seeing their sorrow when they have trouble having kids later in life and their mind inevitably goes back to the one they chose to get rid of, I think the emotional trauma is something not studied enough or talked about enough.

I think a lot of young women do come to regret it, that being said I wont push a law banning it, wont even support it because those that feel that strongly against it will take it to far the other direction, and I feel there are viable times for an abortion.

a reply to: Grenade

You’re right, you can do what you please, except have a legal abortion.

Much to your chagrin, abortion is legal here, up to viability and certain FEDERAL exceptions that allow late term abortion to save the life and welfare of the mother. I can't have an abortion because I'm in my young 70s and my birthing days are past.

Meh I was willing to listen and find common ground, your first interaction with me was personal abuse.

My first interaction with you was in response to your abusive, passive aggressive attacks against me and like minded pro-choice posters. Don't pretend you're not attacking and dismissing us. You are.

I don't enjoy out interactions. I do find a need to out your misogynistic bias.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Stats.

Ah yes. The things mainstream media ignores, in favor of sensationalism, and emotive reporting.

The public face of the pro choice side has always been the extreme viewpoints, and you know it. The moderates were shouted down.

Yes, the European model was what Lindsey Graham I believe, proposed and was shut down by the Democrats. Yes, some hardcore Republicans did too, but with the support of the Dems and the moderates, it would have passed easily.

www.cnbc.com...

But the Dems said it was a non starter, that it proved Republicans were trying to limit abortions nationwide.

So the basic European model is being proposed, but not allowed to see the light of day, and that chamber is controlled by Democrats, they could easily bring it up for vote, and it would easily clear any attempted filibuster.

a reply to: poncho1982

Yes, the European model was what Lindsey Graham I believe

Stats.

You know, "numbers"...as in the number of abortions being done in the US?

But it wasn't really the European model at all. It was the Mississippi model, and it is a "non-starter".

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Perceived attacks. I seem to be getting along fine with the more conservative posters, extremists love to be victimised.

a reply to: Grenade

Passive aggressive attacks and gaslighting too!
"It's all in your unstable head! I'm the victim! You're the crazy one!"

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Grenade

Passive aggressive attacks and gaslighting too!
"It's all in your unstable head! I'm the victim! You're the crazy one!"

Yeah, I noticed too.

Clever wordage.

Love all the self-righteousness in these threads.

As opposed to plain aggression.

Anyone getting back on topic or is it just personal attacks?

a reply to: Sookiechacha

I find it very laughable when you and I are told not to use personal attacks.

a reply to: Annee

Listen, this is an upsetting and emotionally charged subject, if I cause offence it’s because I’m passionate about my beliefs. If those beliefs cause offence I apologise, it’s not intentionally aimed at anyone and my approach to debate is probably flawed. Like everyone I’m by no means perfect but I can assure you my heart is in the right place and I try to be as considerate to other people as possible. There’s a reason angry dwarves are voiced by Scottish people, our culture involves a big heart and lots of courage but socially we’re Neanderthals.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Blaine91555

Let's not disrupt this otherwise calm thread please? I'm posting based on the actual OP. Roe has nothing at all to do with "Abortions - Why so bad?".

It does. It has everything to do with the fact that for the past 50 years each and every state has set its own standard and figured out for themselves whether or not ban late term post-viable abortions and/or why and how late term abortions are performed. Now the states have control over all abortions, especially banning early abortions. That's bad.

The narrative being driven, that Democrats are/have been pushing the late term abortion envelope to allow for baby murder up to, and even after birth is false, untrue....lies, used to get everyone riled up and angry over something that just isn't happening, and using that to justify the new abortion reality.

It's bad to lie to convince someone why abortion is bad using disinformation.

I get it, that in some states a rape victim may qualify for a post-viability abortion due to her mental health, and you think that's bad. I think forcing a rape victim to give birth to their rapist's offspring is torture, a kind of slavery, and very bad.

Seriously!!!!

How can you separate Abortion from Roe vs Wade?

You can't.

Any discussion on Abortion, especially Abortion being bad -- has to include discussion of Roe vs Wade.