Abortions - Why so bad?

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Given compelling evidence or a reasonable argument i'm willing to compromise and tolerate most people. There's even a few members on here who could be classed as left leaning that i enjoy conversing with.

Yet they support and back the policies and unjust laws that democrats are imposing. People can claim to be decent but it is their actions which truly tells us who they are.

If a person claims to be ethical, yet that person is in favor of imprisoning people for being "political opponents" or for being against any policy or unjust law democrats, or anyone else, wants to pass is that person truly "ethical" and "just"? Or is it only a facade?

a reply to: Blaine91555

If the mothers mental health deteriorates I would think that might be
evidenced by wanting to kill her baby in the third tri mester. And
the baby should be protected from the mother as much as possible.

Life is sacred.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Some people just have a simplistic world view, shaped by the state and media. I don't judge them, it's more pity that they can't think for themselves.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Let's not disrupt this otherwise calm thread please? I'm posting based on the actual OP. Roe has nothing at all to do with "Abortions - Why so bad?".

It does. It has everything to do with the fact that for the past 50 years each and every state has set its own standard and figured out for themselves whether or not ban late term post-viable abortions and/or why and how late term abortions are performed. Now the states have control over all abortions, especially banning early abortions. That's bad.

The narrative being driven, that Democrats are/have been pushing the late term abortion envelope to allow for baby murder up to, and even after birth is false, untrue....lies, used to get everyone riled up and angry over something that just isn't happening, and using that to justify the new abortion reality.

It's bad to lie to convince someone why abortion is bad using disinformation.

I get it, that in some states a rape victim may qualify for a post-viability abortion due to her mental health, and you think that's bad. I think forcing a rape victim to give birth to their rapist's offspring is torture, a kind of slavery, and very bad.

originally posted by: Grenade

"I don't judge them"

"it's more pity that they can't think for themselves."

Oh, so clever wordage.

I've had a spontaneous abortion, elective abortion, and 2 kids (LIVING CHILDREN)

But what do I know

originally posted by: UpThenDown
a reply to: Tipulatedone

Some people seem to enjoy imposing their way of life onto others, ultimatly I dont know why they care about what someone else does, it seems to be a power thing I guess.

Do you mean like the way that those who have abortions impose their way of life onto the unborn children who have no way to defend themselves from those who couldn't give a crap about their existence? The pro-life care about what they do to these children because the unborn children have just as much a right to a chance at life, as you or anyone else responding to this thread. To those who say "My body, my choice", I would remind them that when they get finished with the abortion, it's not their body that was chopped into pieces and sucked out with a vacuum. Their body was never in that much danger compared to the child's life that they took. Another tired line also used is "they're not human, they're just a clump of cells". Whatever gets them to sleep at night I guess. At the end of the day, everyone reading and responding to this post right now are walking, breathing clumps of cells no matter how old they get, within or outside of the womb, and always has been. These are selfish and silly defenses to murdering a "would-be" child that is going through the same process that everyone else alive had to go through to be a fully formed human. It's like baking a cake...it may not be fully cooked while it's still in the oven, but all of the ingredients are there and it would be a fully formed cake if no one opened the oven door, took a knife, cut it into pieces, took a vacuum cleaner and sucked it out and then blamed the cake for being a nuisance or a clump of yeast.

a reply to: Tipulatedone

Bacteria is a single celled organism. Considered life.

Approximately 30 hours after fertilization of a human egg, the zygote produces two cells. It's already more complex than than something we consider to be life... but because of political reasons, proponents of abortion don't consider it life.

Women's right to choose?

How about choose not to have sex until you're responsible enough to handle the consequences of your actions?

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

With time our genes have become flawed, and with time we have come to suffer many illnesses, including miscarriages. But it is not the will of Elohim/God. It is our own will which have steered us away from the path Elohim/God wants us in.

Interesting idea... it's all the woman's fault....

Regardless, even if miscarriage is the result of something women and/or humans in general did that brought it about, it was part of God's plan and God's creation. Your premise would suggest it is a punishment of sorts. I suppose that's possible, but it's certainly not proven in any way, shape or form.

I do know there is a Biblical account of priests performing an abortion...

As for your claim that "God allows abortions blah blahblah..." This is again false.

Exodus 21-22 clearly states in Hebrew that if two men fight and one of them hits a pregnant woman and no harm is done to either the woman or the unborn child then the man that hit the woman must be punished according to the law.

Exodus 21:22

Here is the passage in its entirety:

22 “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely[e] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

Technically, these are property laws... and specifically, treating the wife and child as the property of the husband. And do note, it is not specific as to whether the injury is to the woman and/or the baby, nor is there any punishment cited for a woman who is pregnant and not married or is widowed. The law might presume that only a woman who is married could/would be pregnant, but we know it still happened.

It also addresses only what someone else inflicts on the woman... not what the woman chooses to do for herself. People then and now are allowed to do to their own property what others are not allowed to do. If I want to rip up and burn a $100 bill, I can do that -- no punishment. If someone else rips up and burns my $100 bill, it's a crime.

This certainly shows that in the eyes of Elohim/God the murder of an unborn human equals the murder of a full grown human.

Only to the extent that we are speaking about property damaged by anyone other than the owner's property. The husband's property to be specific. The Mosaic Law also allows for slavery, and tells us not to eat shellfish, and lots of other things that are not now considered practical or necessary or proper. Also, Jesus fulfilled that covenant and created a new covenant with the people. And Jesus did not condemn abortion, although it was accepted in the Jewish faith then (and now). So even the Jewish people did not consider abortion murder -- the illegal taking of a life.

More so, throughout the bible Elohim/God states he knows us even before we are born. He know who we will become. So our lives have been pre-determined and as such the lives of every innocent person matters, including unborn humans.

Yes, because our soul is eternal. It came from God and will return to God. Not the body. The body is a temporary physical vehicle for the purpose of earthly life. The soul always was and always will be. It's also possible that our souls live many such physical lives. We have no reason to think that a soul denied one body (due to termination for any reason) cannot and will not be born to another body... perhaps a more appropriate body and even life circumstances. God knows if a pregnancy will come to term or not.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Boadicea

This makes sense, especially the part about the mother bearing the burden. I don't think it's something my consciousness could digest or come to terms with easily.

I think if we look at the many "abortion regret" stories, that it's not something many people's conscience can come to terms with. Not always, I'm sure, but often enough. I also think many women who take the abortion-as-contraceptive route, having multiple elective abortions, find out that it's not just a one and done, and that their body suffers for it, so when they do decide they want a child, their body is no longer capable of doing so. It's been damaged.

I can only imagine the heartache, yet i still can't think of any justification out-with the reasons we've already discussed. My problem is when this argument is dismissed with flippancy, this is a serious decision. As an example, calling an unborn child a "clump of cells" is abhorrent to me.

I don't like the flippancy either. I don't like much of the left's argument pro-abortion. I especially don't like that when the left cries, "Women will die!!!", that they are speaking to the women who will choose to have back alley type abortions, while ignoring the many many women who will die through no fault of their own, for medical reasons, when denied a life-saving termination.

I think it's also quite sad that so many women are convinced that motherhood will only bring hardship, and never told of the absolute joy that a child can bring. Perhaps the only greater joy is having a grandchild

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Blaine91555

Even more insane when they treat their position with pride.

If you've had an elective abortion for reasons of convenience, chances are there's a bias. I've yet to hear anyone show remorse for their actions, seems ego comes before self reflection.

For what it's worth, those are just the loudest voices. There are many many women who regret their decision and suffer mightily for it:

Abortion Regret Stories

I think one thing we could do to help reduce demand for abortion is to better advertise crisis pregnancy centers, and let women in need/doubt know of the help out there for them. And to ensure there is help for pregnant women in need, with or without a husband, in every state. PSAs, billboards, bus ads, etc.

a reply to: DeplorableDereliction

At the end of the day, everyone reading and responding to this post right now are walking, breathing clumps of cells no matter how old they get, within or outside of the womb, and always has been.

To this extent, I can agree 100% with you: We are all "clumps of cells." At least our physical bodies are. I would say that the difference is stage of development, viability, and sentience. But it's the sentience -- the soul -- that gives life.

It's like baking a cake...it may not be fully cooked while it's still in the oven, but all of the ingredients are there and it would be a fully formed cake if no one opened the oven door, took a knife, cut it into pieces, took a vacuum cleaner and sucked it out and then blamed the cake for being a nuisance or a clump of yeast.

I have used the baking a cake analogy as well, but from a different perspective. I have all the ingredients to bake a cake -- flour, sugar, eggs, water, and a working oven. But it's not a cake until I put the effort into mixing the ingredients, baking it in the oven, and removing it at the proper time. Until I put in the effort, it's just flour, sugar, eggs and water. It's my effort that makes it a cake. And it's my choice whether I do so or not.

Likewise, a baby is not created of its own efforts. It is entirely dependent on the mother's efforts. The mother's blood, sweat and tears. The mother's nurturance and sustenance. The mother's breath of life. And the mother's choice to do so.

a reply to: Annee

That makes you an expert on morality?

Here’s a medal.



Like I said, everyone has their reasons for the actions they take, doesn’t mean they’re right. You probably had a few vaccines as well but it hardly makes you a professor of virology.

I also have two kids and raised one of them on my own, what relevance does that have to this conversation?

a reply to: Boadicea

Very well structured response as always.

I only hope one day I’m blessed to be a grandfather. Although it’s still amazing being a father, my kids don’t depend on me so much. My lad just turned 14, I remember the day he was born and miss having him fall asleep on my chest while on the sofa watching TV. It all happens so fast, I’d imagine once I’m older I’ll have more time to appreciate those moments as back then life was 100mph just to survive and bring them up.

a reply to: Boadicea

That’s in stark contrast to some of the women on this forum. They seem to wear it like a badge of honour.

This is more the type of regret I’d imagine from any conscientious individual. A lot of harrowing stories there.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

It was fine when thousands of egyptian babies died. Or did you forget about that chapter? BAMN

Because the Egyptians were murdering Jewish babies, so they got karma back.

For every action there is an equal but opposite reaction. Newton's third law of motion.

Now imagine what's coming to those of you backing this illegal and criminal democrat administration which has labeled all of YOUR political opponents, including parents who care for their children, as criminals, domestic terrorists, etc. Any American that are against abortions on demand has also been labeled as a criminal, domestic terrorists, etc.

Is it really a wonder those of you who are pro-murder are the same people who are pro-pedophilia and want to take away all parental rights from parents and give those rights to the government and to leftist pedophile teachers?

originally posted by: Annee
White evangelical Protestants are most opposed to abortion. Nearly three-quarters say that abortion should be against the law in all cases without exception (21%) or that it should be illegal in most cases (53%).

You leftists have no idea of what you talk about...

Most Hispanics, including most Mexicans, are Catholics and we believe abortion is a crime. I have and know more Mexican families as friends than other Hispanics in the U.S., and they are staunch against abortion which is why Hispanics are one of the people reproducing the most.

originally posted by: Annee
I am PRO LIVING CHILDREN

This world does not need one more unwanted child.

BS. Unborn babies are ALIVE...

originally posted by: Annee

My moral compass, humanity, and compassion is LIVING CHILDREN. That's real and right now.

Let me know when all the LIVING CHILDREN are cared for, loved, housed, fed educated, etc.

Yes -- they are the future.

This world does not need one more unwanted child. There is no humanity in forcing that.

That won't happen with the likes of you in power. You vote for democrats/leftists/progressives...

The same people who claim "math is racist" and "finding the right answer is a sign of white supremacy."

People like you support and defend democrat leaders who want American children to be dumb and not to get ahead in life at all.

People like you support the Gates, Soros and other progressives/liberals/democrats like Oprah who have been forcing botched abortions, and forced sterilizations in third world countries using U.S. and UK aid.

People like you support the sexualization of children as young as 5 years old, taking away parental rights to give those rights to "the state" and to pedophile leftist teachers.

People like you support allowing children to decide to have hormone therapy so they stop growing normally, and you also support cutting up little children all for a false belief that they will become another sex they were not born with.

Heck, people like you continue to support Dr. Death Fauci who put orphan Black children under horrible medical experiments with AIDS. When by law only adults who can give their consent can be subjected to medical experiments. Children cannot and should not be subjected to medical experiments as they can not give consent at their young age.

There is no future with people like you.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

No it isn't.

Compassion is the farthest thing from a Christian's motivation to ban all abortions. Suffering and punishment are the main reasons Christians want to force women to carry unwanted pregnancies. The 2nd Christian reason forced birthers advocate for abortions bans in they, erroneously, think their god wants every fertilized egg born, otherwise he wouldn't have made women fertile every month, and it's their job to make sure their god's wants are satisfied.

There you go again, projecting your own flaws unto others. People like you have no compassion whatsoever.

Suffering and punishment is what people like you force unto others. You are pro-Obama/Biden and the incarceration of YOUR political opponents.

You want to impose socialism even though it has been demonstrated time and again that it only brings suffering, famine and death in large scales.

As for your claim that "Christians believe every woman's egg must be fertilized..." That's the dumbest claim I have read today, and you post dumb claims quite a lot but this time you outdid yourself.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Boadicea

It all happens so fast, I’d imagine once I’m older I’ll have more time to appreciate those moments as back then life was 100mph just to survive and bring them up.

I don't want to derail, but I have to agree -- life is 100mph when you have kids! And it's crazy, and sometimes you don't know how you get through a day, but it's all worth it, and you miss it terribly when it's gone. At least the best parts, which is what we tend to remember.

That’s in stark contrast to some of the women on this forum. They seem to wear it like a badge of honour.

This is more the type of regret I’d imagine from any conscientious individual. A lot of harrowing stories there.

I cannot speak for (or about) anyone but myself, but I assume that everyone speaks to what one knows. Some circumstances and obstacles may seem too challenging, even terrifying or impossible to overcome to a woman in that position, even to the point they think it better if the child is never born. We might see it differently, and in the right situation, we might be able to help a woman see that, even help her... or maybe not.