Abortions - Why so bad?

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Blaine91555

For me when I use that term I mean third-trimester abortions of an unborn child that would live if delivered.

Who is advocating for that? That certainly wasn't the law codified by Roe V Wade. I understand that in overturning Roe, the states have turned rather "Wild Wild West" when it comes to abortion laws. But from what I've seen, the extreme laws are ones that are regulating abortion, not deregulating existing state safeguards, that Roe's ruling allowed states to put in place.

The topic in this thread is not Roe V Wade?

Even so, it is being advocated for. And as I showed there is at least one doctor who will abort up to the last minute for psychological reasons and it's legal in some places.

I repeat I do not think anything about this other than the taking of the life of a viable baby is a political issue and it's in fact a moral issue and very personal. Roe V Wade should not even be a factor.

As far as Roe V Wade went, all that latest decision did is send the choice back to the States which is in fact Constitutional. Some did choose to lie and say they outlawed abortion, but that's just propaganda at election time which is a polite term for lies.

a reply to: Blaine91555

The topic in this thread is not Roe V Wade?

For the past 50 years, it was the law that allowed states to dictate how and when late term abortions on a viable fetus can legally be handled. Since its overturning, I have not seen one state loosen state regulations already in place. I have only seen them tighten them.

And as I showed there is at least one doctor who will abort up to the last minute for psychological reasons and it's legal in some places.

Did that doctor happen explain to you the psychological criteria for such a decision? Perhaps it had something to do with the fetus, that while able to be born alive, would experience excruciating pain and die, and the DR figured that might be traumatizing for a woman's psyche?

When it comes to the ethical question of aborting or the state forcing the live birth of an infant that's "incompatible with life", that issue has been up to individual states and physicians for the past 50 years. It's not a new issue that blue states are trying to make a federal standard, unlike the push for a federal abortion ban from the right.

a reply to: Blaine91555

That was assuming the reason for terminating the viable baby was for the health of the mother. Less trauma to the mother as I understood it. It was not factoring in a mother whose intent was infanticide for convenience.

Gotcha -- thank you. That would make sense, especially because if immediately life-threatening because then there isn't time to waste.

Here is a doctor at the Boulder Abortion Clinic who will terminate a viable child because the mother has psychological issues and to me, that is in fact murder.

I tend to think that any woman who has gone through so many months of pregnancy, nursed and nurtured her body, watched it grow, felt the baby moving, and suddenly wants an abortion MUST have something very very wrong somewhere -- if not physically, then mentally/emotionally. I've wondered what role fluctuating hormones and/or prenatal depression play. I've wondered if that could be exacerbated/compounded by the synthetic hormones and other endocrine-disrupters polluting our water and food.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

The topic is why is abortion bad, not the history of Roe V Wade. I see no need to go there to change the topic.

The link I already posted a page back...
LINK

Patients coming in for third trimester abortion (later abortions) are often seeking services for termination of a desired pregnancy that has developed serious complications. This usually means the discovery of a catastrophic fetal anomaly or genetic disorder that guarantees death, suffering, or serious disability for the baby that would be delivered if the pregnancy were to continue to term. (Please see Fetal Anomalies for more information on our care for patients with desired pregnancies.) Sometimes a woman presents at this stage for pregnancy termination because of her own severe medical illness or a psychiatric indication.

"A psyciatric indication" has zero to do with anything physical. It's saying that doctor will do abortions up to birth due to a mother's mental illness. I'd suspect it's referring mostly to depression. To me, it's just murder at that point.

I don't know who the other doctor is, but a year or so ago I recall reading that there are exactly two doctors in the US who will do that, even though it is legal in multiple states. What sane MD would want that on their record? I'm not surprised that linked doctor is in Boulder, which is know for being one of the most radical, outlandish cities in the US.

a reply to: Boadicea

I tend to think that any woman who has gone through so many months of pregnancy, nursed and nurtured her body, watched it grow, felt the baby moving, and suddenly wants an abortion MUST have something very very wrong

I'd agree that would mean the mother is suffering from psychological issues. The idea that it could be used as an excuse to end a human life sickens me. It's insane to even consider killing a baby because the mother is mental. Insane that we have reached the point in our culture where it could even be entertained.

a reply to: Annee

Again, this has what to do with the thread?

More personal jibes.

Maybe you just don't have the intellectual capacity to fully understand my meaning.

I'll add you to the list of members i no longer correspond with.

Goodbye and good luck.

a reply to: Blaine91555

I'd agree that would mean the mother is suffering from psychological issues. The idea that it could be used as an excuse to end a human life sickens me. It's insane to even consider killing a baby because the mother is mental. Insane that we have reached the point in our culture where it could even be entertained.

Like you, if such pregnancies must be terminated, I want all efforts made for a live birth, but there would need to be a quality home for the child to go (when healthy enough to do so) -- whether the parents, grandparents or other family, an adopted family, or a foster family.

But that would get tricky, to say the least.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Sometimes a woman presents at this stage for pregnancy termination because of her own severe medical illness or a psychiatric indication.

"Presents". That doesn't mean she meets the state's or the DR's criterion. Every state has a legal criterion for late term abortion that it expects its doctors to qualify.

Maybe she was raped, or impregnated by a family member, but didn't know she was pregnant until then. Why else might a woman "freak out" suddenly, so late into her pregnancy? Simply put, maybe she thought she could deliver a baby only to bury it, thought she wanted to cradle it, rock it and sing to it while it died in her arms, but she realized she can't for whatever reason.

There are always mitigating circumstance.

a reply to: Blaine91555

The topic is why is abortion bad, not the history of Roe V Wade.

...Which was overturned a just a few weeks ago... which is why the topic is hot right now.

It's also my point that for 50 years, because of Roe, all 50 states have regulated how and why late term abortion are performed. Saying abortion is now an issue because late term abortion is now a free for all, and something must be done, is disingenuous and wrong. Nothing has changed since Roe's overturning, in that respect, in any of the 50 states' laws. in that respect.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Blaine91555
but there would need to be a quality home for the child to go (when healthy enough to do so) -- whether the parents, grandparents or other family, an adopted family, or a foster family.

But that would get tricky, to say the least.

And if there is not at that moment?

a reply to: Sookiechacha

I'm sorry I'll never, ever find a reason that anyone should ever kill a viable infant near the time of birth. Either murder is wrong or it's not, because if we make exceptions what else does it lead to?

I don't want to discuss Roe or engage in some political debate. You don't understand why derailing threads is a bad idea? Let's not disrupt this otherwise calm thread please? I'm posting based on the actual OP. Roe has nothing at all to do with "Abortions - Why so bad?".

A reminder..

So first I just want to say this is my very first thread!
Ive been a long time reader of ATS but never posted or commented until the last few days.

Now i thought i would start off with a perhaps rather controversial question...

Why do people think Abortions are so bad?
I suppose this question is mainly aimed at the American people as over here in the UK (Wales) no one seems to give a rat ass about it.
Ive tried asking the question on various message boards/youtube comments etc but noone ever seems to reply.

No right or wrong answers of course just want to see peoples thoughts!

That's what I'm here to discuss. Otherwise I'd be in a thread about Roe.

Sorry Tipulatedone.

a reply to: Blaine91555

And if there is not at that moment?

Perhaps require the hospital nursery to keep them on until such placement can be found? If a child is delivered prematurely, then I would expect that a hospital stay of some length would be required before the child can be released anyway, and hopefully suitable arrangements could be found during that time.

I think the biggest stickler in such a process would be the mother/father and if one or both wants to keep the baby... if she's well enough to keep and care for the baby... or if the law would even allow her to keep the baby or perhaps not but only in the worst circumstances...

I believe there are far more couples wanting to adopt a newborn than there are newborns to be adopted. That route should be fairly quick and easy, if possible.

I'm also not sure how many physicians would be willing to terminate so late, as they would obviously know that the fetus is not prepared to be born, and that is in and of itself a risk.

But I would say that ultimately, it is a decision between the patient (mother) and physician. It's their deed and their burden to bear.

a reply to: Boadicea

This makes sense, especially the part about the mother bearing the burden. I don't think it's something my consciousness could digest or come to terms with easily.

I suspect that most women must have some contradictory feelings with regard the rectitude of the choice to undergo this procedure. I guess everyone needs to find a way to justify their position, especially when it's such an impactful and stressful decision. I can only imagine the heartache, yet i still can't think of any justification out-with the reasons we've already discussed. My problem is when this argument is dismissed with flippancy, this is a serious decision. As an example, calling an unborn child a "clump of cells" is abhorrent to me.

originally posted by: Annee

I was raised Chrisitan (speak what you know). I don't bring in other religions because I am not knowledgeable of them.

I am now non-religious / atheist. I've found atheists to be far more ethical than my experience in Christianity.

You left-wingers/atheists are the most ethical?... Is that why your socialist/left-wing policies are doing to the U.S.?...

Is it ethical that your puppet Biden and democrat leaders are labeling parents as "domestic terrorists" for criticizing CRT/The Marxist and sexual indoctrination of children as young as 5 years old?

What about all of YOUR political opponents being labeled as "insurrectionists, domestic terrorists, etc" by your corrupt democrat leaders. is that ethical?

What about your lies about the "Don't say gay Bill" Desantis signed which says NOTHING about "don't say gay"... What it does is affirm that PARENTS have a right to decide how their children should be educated... But you leftists/anti-Trump cultists are against this bill and you have LIED day in and day out about it.

Not to mention you left-wingers/anti-Trump Cultists being in favor of sexualizing children as young as 5 years old. Subjecting CHILDREN to your most perverted fantasies, legalizing pedophilia and child abuse which is what the democrat party stands for now...

Then there are the "defund the police", the "soft on crime" approach by your left-wing/Soros DAs...

Please, don't talk about being the most ethical people, because you are not.

originally posted by: Annee

Fundamental Christians. That is the #1 reason.


Dominionism Rising
A Theocratic Movement Hiding in Plain Sight

Dominionism is the theocratic idea that regardless of theological view, means, or timetable, Christians are called by God to exercise dominion over every aspect of society by taking control of political and cultural institutions.

politicalresearch.org...

ROFLMAO... What a bunch of BS, it is YOU left-wingers who are imposing your evil ideas and policies, and pushing them on everyone. if we don't accept YOU left-wingers/anti-Trump cultists attempt to sue us, and in your DEMOCRAT hell-holes you always win...

It is YOU/leftists/anti-Trump cultists who yell and DEMAND that conservatives don't make speeches in U.S. Universities, colleges, or anywhere else...

It is YOU/leftists/anti-Trump cultists who yell at your political opponents and demand we are not allowed to speak anywhere.

It is YOU/left-wingers/anti-Trump cultists who are demanding to send to jail, to "education camps", and have even called to murder your political opponents...

It is YOU/left-wingers/anti-Trump cultists and your lying mainstream media, Hollyweirds, and democrat leaders who call for violence against YOUR political opponents...

Lies and deception is all YOU/left-wingers/anti-Trump cultists have. You are doing the exact same things you falsely claim we are doing...

a reply to: Blaine91555

Even more insane when they treat their position with pride.

If you've had an elective abortion for reasons of convenience, chances are there's a bias. I've yet to hear anyone show remorse for their actions, seems ego comes before self reflection.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Blaine91555

Even more insane when they treat their position with pride.

If you've had an elective abortion for reasons of convenience, chances are there's a bias. I've yet to hear anyone show remorse for their actions, seems ego comes before self reflection.

These are the same people with an ego larger than their intelligence, who feel contempt against everyone and anyone who thinks differently than them. They see those of us who disagree with their views as "lesser people".

They believe they must impose their will on everyone else "to save humanity, the Earth, blah blahblah." When in reality the truth is that they just LOVE imposing their will on others meanwhile their policies and laws destroy the world.

Mmm. hoes still mad.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Given compelling evidence or a reasonable argument i'm willing to compromise and tolerate most people. There's even a few members on here who could be classed as left leaning that i enjoy conversing with.

originally posted by: Boadicea
...
And yet, God allowed for spontaneous abortion, induced abortion, and all manner of complications as part of the pregnancy process. I'm not sure God's definition of "abuse" is the same as yours.
...

False. Elohim/God just left mankind to follow our own will and has not taken any sides on purpose to see what we will do.

This is similar to those people who blame Elohim/God for the evil deeds of men/women. It wasn't Elohim/God who did those deeds.

With time our genes have become flawed, and with time we have come to suffer many illnesses, including miscarriages. But it is not the will of Elohim/God. It is our own will which have steered us away from the path Elohim/God wants us in.

Elohim/God has allowed us free will for us to see that following this path won't lead us anywhere good. Look at what stage the world is in right now because of free will.

As for your claim that "God allows abortions blah blahblah..." This is again false.

Exodus 21-22 clearly states in Hebrew that if two men fight and one of them hits a pregnant woman and no harm is done to either the woman or the unborn child then the man that hit the woman must be punished according to the law.

Exodus 21:22

But in Exodus 21-23 it states if there is harm to either the woman or the unborn child then punishment must be equal, a life for a life.

Exodus 21:23

This certainly shows that in the eyes of Elohim/God the murder of an unborn human equals the murder of a full grown human.

More so, throughout the bible Elohim/God states he knows us even before we are born. He know who we will become. So our lives have been pre-determined and as such the lives of every innocent person matters, including unborn humans.