Abortions - Why so bad?

So who convinced who after 16 pages?

Nobody?

a reply to: Lysergic
Nope.
Slavers and Nazi's never changed their ways either.
There is just something wrong in the minds of those who believe certain human beings are "less than" and/or property.

a reply to: ExiledSpirit777

Poor women who get raped and impregnated

This is a faulty generalization. You are using the VERY, VERY few to justify the many. 99% of abortions are for convenience.

Poor potential life getting taken away (Yes, its potential, because its possible it dies in the womb or at birth)

It is a human being, beginning their life cycle. They may die a natural death, just as you may in the next breath. They are no more "potential" life than you are. You both are human beings, just at different stages of your life cycle.

Those poor lives brought into this world from a raped woman who will not have a quality of life, though some would.

Again, this is a faulty generalization. Should we go through the world and kill all human beings you deem don't have "quality of life"? What gives you the right to decide for them?

Either way, nobody wins in this situation. Nobody.

Agreed.

a reply to: Annee

Irresponsible, random breeding, -- now that's a totally different question.

How did you get here?
You have siblings?
Were all of you planned for?
Do you wish you were aborted?

originally posted by: Quadrivium
a reply to: Annee

Irresponsible, random breeding, -- now that's a totally different question.

How did you get here?
You have siblings?
Were all of you planned for?
Do you wish you were aborted?

Which has zero to do with any choice I make about my life.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Annee

I'm not Christian. You can have a moral compass without ascribing to religion.

I suppose you could. What if there was no parent/teacher/instructor just a computer to regulate your feeding times and teach you raw facts and methods what sort of morals do you think you would develop? Would you exhibit kindness? Sympathy? Empathy? Greed? Mistrust? Love of other? The "religion" is not always the cornerstone of human society, but it can be a healthy method, a recipe if you will, to good humans when it’s what we learn along the way. It's very easy to rebel against what is perceived as "old people" thinking, when in fact the best about humans is ALWAYS learned and not inherent in DNA. Just my $.02, I could be wrong.

I find the unnecessary taking of life (murder, abortion, intentional civilian death during wartime) to be the greatest failure of mankind. Not to be confused with execution for horrendous crimes (murder/rape/child molestation) or soldiers killing during wartime. I am always torn by the biological imperative that there has to be a balance between births and deaths or we can mess our biosphere up bad.
I am often taken aback by someone who will argue the adult females “right” to choose, but deflect on the potential of the not yet developed human as having no right. Or sometimes the failure to consider the rights or feelings of the male (NO not rape/incest/sexual assault male). I was overjoyed to learn I was going to be a father. It would probably have crushed me to the point of suicide if my now wife had decided to abort my daughter.
Not every man is a dog, not every woman is a great mother, but every potential for a new contribution to humanity should have the chance to shine.

Wow, sorry got a bit preachy. Just how I feel right now.

a reply to: Boadicea
Boadicea,
Not sure what you mean about my change in verbiage.
As for in vitro fertilization?
I do not have the answer you are looking for. I honestly don't understand how someone can be pro-life and agree with IVF.
Both are the premeditated killing of another human being.
The only difference I see and by NO means justifies the act:
*Abortion is the premeditated killing of another human being for convenience in 99% of cases to terminate a pregnancy
*IVF is the act of trying to become impregnated at the expense of how many other human lives?
I do not agree with either.
Neither are going anywhere though.
They are both billion dollar businesses.
There are alternatives to IVF though.
NaProTECHNOLOGY and Adoption.
My wife and I had three boys, all of whom have left the nest. We are considering adopting a little girl.

a reply to: Annee
Of course it does.
If everyone had your attitude about human beings, we would be extinct.

a reply to: Tipulatedone

Believe it or not, there are people who cry more when they see a duck run over in the street, than they would knowing that the person who ran over the duck, just killed their baby at the doctor's office.

Seriously!

a reply to: Quadrivium

Thank you for the response, and thank you for the link.

This is so heartening to read:

Unlike common suppressive or destructive approaches, NaProTECHNOLOGY works cooperatively with the procreative and gynecologic systems. When these systems function abnormally, NaProTECHNOLOGY identifies the problems and cooperates with the menstrual and fertility cycles that correct the condition, maintain the human ecology, and sustain the procreative potential.

Not only because it can only help women conceive, carry and birth healthy babies who otherwise might not, it must also help the women treat/control the underlying problems, which probably cause other issues for them. At least in my experience, the women who have trouble bearing children have additional problems as well, usually from the same root cause.

a reply to: jwal5150

Using evidence from evolutionary biology, developmental psychology, and neuroscience, we have come to realize that morality is not merely the result of cultural learning, handed to us from our families, peers, and environment. Morality was selected by evolution in our human ancestors in order to promote cooperation and smooth social interactions. Developmental psychologists have demonstrated that some building blocks of morality are in place very early in development [3]. Additionally, the parts of the brain and the brain chemicals involved in morality and decision-making are beginning to be identified.
Neuroscience, psychology, and evolutionary biology will continue to help us gain a better understanding of how we think and make moral decisions [2]. Future research in neuroscience will help us to explain how we make decisions, weigh our options, reflect on our desires, and modify our behaviors on the basis of their moral consequences. Hopefully, Science will also help us to understand why some people, like psychopaths, are not able to act morally, and discover ways to help them.

kids.frontiersin.org...

originally posted by: Quadrivium
a reply to: Annee
Of course it does.
If everyone had your attitude about human beings, we would be extinct.

NO -- my ancestors' choices have nothing to do with me.

The human population is 8 billion. I'm hardly concerned about human extinction.

However, at this point men are not needed. Frozen sperm, which can be scientifically checked for genetic defaults -- is healthier than the usual delivery.

And -- an artificial womb is only about 10 years away in development.

The world's first artificial womb for humans

The world's first artificial womb for humans
Close
Scientists in the Netherlands say they are within 10 years of developing an artificial womb that could save the lives of premature babies.

Premature birth, before 37 weeks, is globally the biggest cause of death among newborns.

www.bbc.com...

a reply to: carewemust

Well I know i would hate to see a poor duck get run over. Dont care about the medical procedure a woman had done because its none of my business nor your business.

originally posted by: MatteBlak
a reply to: carewemust

Well I know i would hate to see a poor duck get run over. Dont care about the medical procedure a woman had done because its none of my business nor your business.

Thank you. Thank you.

To anyone who says it's no one else's business.

a reply to: Annee

However, at this point men are not needed. Frozen sperm, which can be scientifically checked for genetic defaults -- is healthier than the usual delivery.

So, it's OK to kill men now, as they're "not needed"?
Don't worry. Help is on the way!

Hopefully, Science will also help us to understand why some people, like psychopaths, are not able to act morally, and discover ways to help them.

kids.frontiersin.org...

a reply to: Sookiechacha

What does Roe have to do with the simple question of why do people believe abortions are bad? It's a separate topic no matter how you spin it and you are spinning it. Since I'm only interested in discussing the topic in the OP, I'll bow out.

originally posted by: Quadrivium
a reply to: Annee

However, at this point men are not needed. Frozen sperm, which can be scientifically checked for genetic defaults -- is healthier than the usual delivery.

So, it's OK to kill men now, as they're "not needed"?
Don't worry. Help is on the way!

Hopefully, Science will also help us to understand why some people, like psychopaths, are not able to act morally, and discover ways to help them.

kids.frontiersin.org...

Your words, not mine: "So, it's OK to kill men now, as they're "not needed"?"

I'm not interested in what was or any life fantasy.

Morals? Who's morals? Are you the moral chooser?

ALL LIVING CHILDREN - FED, CLOTHED, HOUSED, EDUCATED, LOVED, AND MORE - - - that's my moral compass.

originally posted by: Lysergic
So who convinced who after 16 pages?

Nobody?

It does not matter. Discussion and debate are how we come to understand one another. We don't do enough of that and spend way too much time talking at each other rather than to each other.

Having a closed mind is a handicap.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: Sookiechacha

What does Roe have to do with the simple question of why do people believe abortions are bad? It's a separate topic no matter how you spin it and you are spinning it. Since I'm only interested in discussing the topic in the OP, I'll bow out.

How?

The 2 are wholly entwined.

Half a question: " Why are abortions bad?" Who says?

Roe vs Wade -- "Why are abortions good? Because I have the right to choose.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Quadrivium
a reply to: Annee

However, at this point men are not needed. Frozen sperm, which can be scientifically checked for genetic defaults -- is healthier than the usual delivery.

So, it's OK to kill men now, as they're "not needed"?
Don't worry. Help is on the way!

Hopefully, Science will also help us to understand why some people, like psychopaths, are not able to act morally, and discover ways to help them.

kids.frontiersin.org...

Your words, not mine: "So, it's OK to kill men now, as they're "not needed"?"

I'm not interested in what was or any life fantasy.

Morals? Who's morals? Are you the moral chooser?

ALL LIVING CHILDREN - FED, CLOTHED, HOUSED, EDUCATED, LOVED, AND MORE - - - that's my moral compass.

They are living.
They are human beings.
The ONLY difference between you and them is "Location, location, location", you are at different locations of your life cycle.
That is all.