Ukraine Making Significant Gains in Eastern Counter-Offensive

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: turretless
Your desire to keep this agenda constantly at the top is commendable, but I believe that even if the Ukrainians actually (and not in the video) took Mariupol back, the majority of the Western population would still not approve of providing Ukraine with new cash tranches.

You think the "Western population" has any say or influence in funding the Ukrainian military? Wowzers, the average man in the street has no say whatsoever. Totally out of our hands. The political elites decide what's good for us and what's good for Ukraine. If those elites decide to provide years of weaponry and cash to Ukraine it will happen, we will have no say in it whatsoever.

Yes.

I thought that Europe was a democracy.

At least this is what Europe told everyone about itself.

originally posted by: MidnightWatcher

originally posted by: turretless
Your desire to keep this agenda constantly at the top is commendable, but I believe that even if the Ukrainians actually (and not in the video) took Mariupol back, the majority of the Western population would still not approve of providing Ukraine with new cash tranches.

That might be what russians believe, but here in reality most of us are unhappy that we've sent such limited numbers to Ukraine.

Imagine if we sent 100 HIMARS and 500 M777 instead of 20 and 80.

There would be no russians in Ukraine anymore, including Crimea.

Imagine if we sent a few hundred f16s.

Most of russia's navy would be promoted to reef bed and Moscow would be hearing daily air raid sirens.

Perhaps you should stop complaining about a 'proxy war' before we decide to give you one.

Someone has already tried to scare me on this forum with an endless number of Javelins that the West will provide and which will no doubt stop the Russian army.

a reply to: turretless

Yes and that's a fake story put out by the Europeans turretless. Big business funds all the parties these days and then gets a guiding hand over the elected politicians. Same here in the UK. Once big business decides it wants economic control then expect a coloured revolution at some point in time down the line. Even a blind person can see this yet most europeans are blind because they are told they live in democracies

Russia is probably still waiting on the missiles they ordered from North korea.

originally posted by: MidnightWatcher

originally posted by: Stu112
If Russian troops vacate a mass area in Ukraine, you can bet that area will be reduced to rubble shortly after the missiles start flying.

russia just 'vacated' 3000 sq km in Ukraine.

Still waiting for that rubble...

what I find hilarious is the effort you all go to correct each other and prove each other wrong for the side you have picked
when all the info you get is probably false or comes from the government or MSM .

When this entire debacle is just another assault and resource grab by the elite .

Here we are all arguing over who is just and who is to blame
and who will win

none of these #s in Russia the West or Ukraine have our best interests at heart
they arent fighting this war for anyone of us

just their own agendas

but just ignore me and get back to sowing the seeds of division handed to you by the elite
well done ATS , we have been through this process multiple times and still so many of us fall for the same old bull# dressed up in a different facade

a reply to: sapien82

I think the real concern is to what extent Putin was going to try to rebuild the Soviet Block. And what would happen if that would involve invading a NATO nation. Don’t like war. It’s was wrong for Putin to invade. Uncomfortable money flowing to weapon manufactures / dealers. Glad and hopefully this whole Sh!t ball is stalling in the Ukraine. Sad the Ukrainian people are paying the price.

a reply to: WhatItIs

war is nothing but state sponsored genocide

so my real concern is not russia or putin , but the system that puts all of humanity under its heel
and keeps putting pressure down each year.

Here we are arguing over the fine details
all the while never asking who is to blame for it all
instead fighting over flags and borders

we need unity, unity against the ruling elite
I for one do not wish to participate in side picking or blame shaming
I know its just to divide us to control us easily

why should 1% of the worlds population hold the rest to ransom , with fear of nuclear annihilation
these #s dont speak for me and never will.

when are we going to unite and take out the trash ?

a reply to: sapien82

what I find hilarious is the effort you all go to correct each other and prove each other wrong for the side you have picked
when all the info you get is probably false or comes from the government or MSM .

And how is that any different to the Pro / Anti Trump arguments that have raged here 6 or 7 years now ?
Much of the information is coming from troops on the ground via social media , the evidence is there unless you choose to ignore it.

The question now is will Putin swallow his pride and announce a general mobilization , which will give him access to more troops but also be an admission of defeat.

I just find it amazing that the west have the gall to shout about Russia invading Ukraine illegally when we invaded Iraq illegally.

Double standards that never seem to get spoken about in MSM.

as has been mentioned, our politicians are all as bad as each other.

a reply to: Stu112

I just find it amazing that the west have the gall to shout about Russia invading Ukraine illegally when we invaded Iraq illegally.

The US went through the UN to do it and had supporting Nations with them , Russia unilaterally attacked its neighbor after already stealing Crimea a few years prior.

Obvious landgrab is obvious.

So having their pals with them when waging an illegal war makes it alright? It was in violation of the UN charter.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Stu112

I just find it amazing that the west have the gall to shout about Russia invading Ukraine illegally when we invaded Iraq illegally.

The US went through the UN to do it and had supporting Nations with them , Russia unilaterally attacked its neighbor after already stealing Crimea a few years prior.

Obvious landgrab is obvious.

a reply to: Stu112



Did the UN determine that the invasion was illegal, or do you just like saying fake stuff when you have no argument to support your claims?

originally posted by: MidnightWatcher
a reply to: Stu112



Did the UN determine that the invasion was illegal, or do you just like saying fake stuff when you have no argument to support your claims?

United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan stated in September 2004 that: "I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN charter. From our point of view and the UN Charter point of view, it [the war] was illegal.

That'll do for me.

a reply to: Stu112

So having their pals with them when waging an illegal war makes it alright?

I didn't say it did just that they are different things.

a reply to: Stu112

I think he did say that, but then again Mr V Putin had this to say at the time:


Russian President Vladimir Putin, in a televised conference before a meeting with the US envoy to Iraq, said on 19 December 2003 that "The use of force abroad, according to existing international laws, can only be sanctioned by the United Nations. This is the international law. Everything that is done without the UN Security Council's sanction cannot be recognised as fair or justified."


Hmmmm...eh?

Hmm what? We all know Putin's a piece of # after Crimea never mind Ukraine but my point stands - the west did it so why do they think they can take any moral high ground against Russia? It's hypocrisy at its finest.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Stu112

I think he did say that, but then again Mr V Putin had this to say at the time:


Russian President Vladimir Putin, in a televised conference before a meeting with the US envoy to Iraq, said on 19 December 2003 that "The use of force abroad, according to existing international laws, can only be sanctioned by the United Nations. This is the international law. Everything that is done without the UN Security Council's sanction cannot be recognised as fair or justified."


Hmmmm...eh?

I agree, they are different, what the west did to Iraq was worse, the death toll shows that.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Stu112

So having their pals with them when waging an illegal war makes it alright?

I didn't say it did just that they are different things.