What a terrible day - 21 dead most are children

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

We aren't ever going to give up our guns, British redcoats made sure of that long ago.

You keep on stating this but I simply don't get it.
Justifying something today on the events of 250+ years ago is beyond me....and I'm not sure if there's any truth in it anyway.

You guys keep your guns because you want to, simple as that.
You like playing with them, you like polishing them, you like hunting with them and shooting them and you like walking around with them strapped to your waist or wherever.

That's up to you....your country, do as you see fit.

The shear abundance of them means that gun controls similar to the UK are impractical - that horse has long since bolted - and would result in carnage.

And by the same token any sort of 2nd Amendment gun laws are not needed or wanted over here. It too would lead to carnage, instead of kicking the crap out of each other on a Saturday night we'd be shooting each other.

Gun ownership is engrained in the collective American psyche in a way unlike anywhere else.

I don't buy into the gun ownership prevents tyranny myth.
Do you honestly think your guns would prevent any sort of overthrow of the government considering all the weapons and armoury that would be at their disposal?
But you guys like to cling on to that, so hey....that's up to you.

But all that is irrelevant.
The top and bottom of it is that what you have now simply isn't working.
There are more and more instances like this recent one in Uvalde.
It is shear insanity.

Yes, there are cultural changes that are contributing to the incredibly high number of gun related deaths and killings.
Yes, there is a mental health problem that is being ignored and is contributing to the situation.
Yes, there are other deep lying socio-economic problems that also contribute.

From a problem solving point of view the problem has been identified.....so you implement a quick fix before addressing the root causes and core issues.

So, what is the quick fix?
Stop the guns getting into the hands of the people who are doing the killing.

Such a simple thing to write....but I suspect finding a way to do it is considerably harder.
🍻🍻

originally posted by: sarahvital

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: Jaellma


Did clinton remove the means for all American schools to stop a shooter?

Did Clinton advocate for and sign a law that put signs on every school entrance to inform everyone that nobody on school property has the means to stop a shooter?


He deserves part of the blame for the current situation, a good deal of the blame, because he thought politics was more more important than protecting children at schools.

gun free zones?

i'm not sure tho.

Psycho cowards just love those gun free school zones, like moths to a light bulb.

a reply to: Freeborn


We refuse to give them up because we refuse to be a defenseless citizenry again.

Not gonna fall for that twice.

There's a reason it was number 2, it ensures that number 1 will never be repealed, because without number 1 there is no United States or any possibility of freedom for ourselves or future generations.

THAT's why you hear the 'over my dead body' stuff regarding number 2, and we sincerely mean it.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

That guy in every single British pub from open to close, just waiting to pressure American visitors into drinking your warm 'beer'.

Serving warm beer where I live would get a Landlord lynched.....there's much more to the UK than London.

If you ever do get over to these shores you never know I might get to share a pint with you.

Edinburgh is good to visit but can be very expensive....Glasgow is one of my favourite places on earth, a great city with great people.

a reply to: Freeborn
Scottish city Glasgow once held the grim title "murder capital of Europe" but homicides in the city have fallen by 60% in just over a decade all thanks to a radical approach - treating violence as a disease.
www.bloomberg.com...

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

With all due respect, you were never a 'defenceless citizenry', you proved that.

In other threads you state how advanced the US Armed Forces are and the extent of their weaponry etc - and you're probably correct in that.
If a 'tyrant' was to take over the US government they would have to have the support of the US Armed Forces otherwise it simply wouldn't be possible.
Do you honestly think your guns would be a match for your Armed Forces?

As you say in other threads there isn't a fighting force on earth that would be able stand up to that military might.

I'm not intending to insult or be disrespectful etc.....just a harsh reality of modern day life.

a reply to: Freeborn


I might take you up on that!

I've only been to the London area (you had terror issues elsewhere at the time), and that was a long time ago.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Yeah I know.....I used to be a very frequent visitor to Glasgow.
Had some brilliant times there with some really good friends.

I was hoping to get up there earlier this year but circumstances prevented it.
I am now trying to plan something for round about September/October time, have a catch up with some of my old mates, maybe a band and a match and hopefully a meet up with Andy, sappy and Grenade and anyone else who fancies it.

Glasgow can be a violent place....so can pretty much everywhere.

a reply to: Freeborn


We 'proved' that at an impossible cost, after more than a decade of secretly producing our own crude copies of British weapons (and stealing some), for which MANY Americans were killed long before the war ever started.

Number 2 must always remain, or number 1 will be no more?

Don't believe me?

Consider the recent actions of the by any means necessary party to eliminate number 1 even after repeatedly failing to to remove number 2.

Case closed. Number 2 must remain.

a reply to: Freeborn


September might work for me, maybe we should start a thread and see if we can get a larger ATS group to join.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

You don't need to take the second amendment away, but times change, and amending it might not be the worst idea in the universe.

You say yourself the laws already in place are not implemented nor enforced.

The case will never be closed while these mass school shootings occur PatriotGames4u and something is done to realistically tackle and prevent them from occurring in the future.

Its not even political or about freedom any longer but people dying every day of the week down to guns in the hands of the wrong people.

I understand all the same that America is never going to see it that way, i just wish i understood why given the danger such weaponry presents in the hands of lunatic wanna-be Rambo's.

a reply to: andy06shake


Most of the school shootings would never have occured if those laws were enforced, as most of the shooters could not legally possess a firearm without adult supervision.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

The UK - the British Isles in general - is a beautiful place with some great places to visit and is full of characters very few of whom are anything like the stereotypical Brit many American's think we're all like.

London has its attractions but I personally can't spend more than one full day in the place without needing to get out.

Go down to where carpy lives and its full of old age mysticism etc and some truly breath taking scenery.
Every town and city has something unique to offer whilst at the same time being thoroughly 'British'.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

You don't need to take the second amendment away, but times change, and amending it might not be the worst idea in the universe.

You say yourself the laws already in place are not implemented nor enforced.

The case will never be closed while these mass school shootings occur PatriotGames4u and something is done to realistically tackle and prevent them from occurring in the future.

Its not even political or about freedom any longer but people dying every day of the week down to guns in the hands of the wrong people.

I understand all the same that America is never going to see it that way, i just wish i understood why given the danger such weaponry presents in the hands of lunatic wanna-be Rambo's.

The second amendment is the only amendment which explicitly states “shall not be infringed”. Thus, any attempt to amend it with limits would nullify it completely.

I’m all for decent regulation, personally. I am also all for an armed populace. There has to be some middle ground. Civilians don’t need rpg’s, for example.

But legal phrasing matters. you cannot amend the 2a without dismantling it completely.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

The main thing I take from the threads I have read on the subject after this latest tragedy is that at least now there seems to be a recognition and acknowledgement that something is WRONG and something needs to be done very quickly.

Even a couple of years or so ago every single one of these threads would have descended into nothing but a torrent of 'over my dead body' and such like.

The danger is that next week when the next big headline comes along and this story slips off the front pages people's focus switches to that particular issue.
As a result nothing gets done.

First it was Ukraine;
An avalanche of people posting; 'Those bastard commie Russians', 'Corrupt Nazi Ukrainian scum', 'Nuke 'em', 'the madman is going to nuke us'.....'What about The Constitution'.

Then it was Roe v Wade;
'Murderers', 'Its a women's body', 'Choose Life', 'Her Choice'.....'What about The Constitution'.

Biden and Trump;
'He stole the election', 'He organised insurrection', 'He #s himself', 'Impeach him'.....'What about The Constitution'

The it'll be back round to guns again....ad infinitum.

Nothing of any real importance ever gets done, nothing changes, the status quo remains the same.

And who benefits from that?
Certainly not the likes of you and I that's for sure.

a reply to: Freeborn


Agreed.

It's why they panicked about Trump, he threatened to tip over their apple cart and break the long running absurd stalemates.

No idea if Trump could (or even would) do as they feared, but that fear of finally breaking out of so many absurd stalemates is exactly why they went By Any Means Necessary.

Somehow we need to break out of that loop you accurately described, and few of our previous efforts (including the Trump experiment) have worked so far.

Never gonna stop trying though, we've been doing this for our entire existence as a country, and while our current stalemated issues are certainly serious, they absolutely pale in comparison to many of the previous ones that have already been resolved.
Slavery being example number 1.

a reply to: NoMoreFools

My understanding, which granted is limited, is since 1789 your Constitution has been amended 27 times.

I fail to understand why it cannot be amended just like any other if your nation were inclined to do so?

What's wrong with dismantling it and putting back together so as to be in line and relevant regarding restrictions where the weaponry available in this day of age is concerned?

Im thinking the people who wrote said bill of rights and constitution never envisaged the likes of the ArmaLite AR-15, or any other modern-day rifles
in the hands of lunatics or children hell-bent on a killing spree to be honest.

There's always been guns.
There's always been knives.
There's always been bad parents.
There's always been mental illness.
There's always been violent films.

So there must be a new catalyst that has rapidly increased the frequency of shootings in the last 20-30 years.

I posited the internet/games. Someone else posited a government patsy, maybe even like an MKUltra puppet. Increased drugs could be another thing. I'm sure some of these shooters have been normal with no history of mental illness or dysfunctional upbringing as well? That just flip out one day.

If you restrict guns somehow, the perp could just kill and take a normal person's guns to do the deed. Or they'll use a car (or setup multiple cars in different locations if they've really planned it out). What's to stop someone ploughing down a pavement at school turnout time? Or through a playground?

Yeah we have no gun crime in the UK, but we have rampant knife crime in London and Birmingham. If guns were easier to get hold of again, knife crime would plummet. We've had our fair share of mass killings. Less than a year ago there was a shooter in Plymouth that killed 5 including a 3 year old girl.
en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

And yet 27 school shootings have taken place so far this year PatriotGames4u.

Alarm bells are ringing my friend.

Your politicians need to come up with a way of addressing this problem and sharpish.

If you don't want to touch your second amendment fair play and i get that its the proverbial Sticky wicket.

Something needs to be done today, not next week or 6 months down the line when another 27 school shootings are most lightly to have occurred, but now.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Another double. LoL

My bad.