Russia accused of massacre, genocide over Bucha

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: MisguidedAngel

And where pray tell did the 'newer information' come from?

Quickly cobbled together make believe stories by pro Russians i would assume.

a reply to: scraedtosleep

They are expecting Hollywood style..

a reply to: alldaylong

Probably mate.
But I try to look at everything with an open mind.
If he doesn't give any links etc then one can only suppose its absolute bollocks.
If he does I'll weigh up the strength of evidence from both sides....

a reply to: RussianTroll

Actually if you look at the hand of that female . She have been dead for several days. Fingers are black etc. Just open your eyes.

a reply to: Freeborn
From the latest world news:

In connection with the monstrous provocation of Ukrainian radicals in Bucha, Russia requested a meeting of the UN Security Council on Monday, April 4 - Deputy Representative of the Russian Federation to the UN Dmitry Polyansky.

BBC will not tell you this)))

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: alldaylong

Probably mate.
But I try to look at everything with an open mind.
If he doesn't give nay links etc then one can only suppose its absolute bollocks.
If he does I'll weigh up the strength of evidence from both sides....

I agree.

I have asked for several links to be supplied for claims being made by pro Putinists.

Nothing as yet.

a reply to: RussianTroll

That is only politics Russia is trying to cover their a$$.. very typical Russian response, no one takes that as they say.

a reply to: Freeborn

Your first evidence says the Russians were getting their ass kicked in Bucha and were stopped from getting into the town and that the “few” remaining citizens saw them retreating and begging the citizens to not tell the Ukraine soldiers where they were fleeing to and how terrified they were.
So you are believing the Russians who were getting bombed and killed off before they got into the town, got forced back and while they were retreating or running away per the article. These 18-20 year olds, terrified kids not only captured civilians while fleeing and after begging other civilians to not tell them where they were running away too and the citizens felt sorry for them, they then tied their hands behind their backs one by one so they could execute them 20 feet apart before continuing to flee. And the bodies then laid in the road for 4 days.
Yea sounds plausible. I mean who would ever question that logic.

a reply to: RussianTroll

So what, Russia has no integrity left.

Russian representatives and officials, including the Deputy Ambassador to the UN, repeatedly told the world that Russia had intention to invade Ukraine....guess what happened?

No-one believes a word uttered by the current Russian administration - by administration I mean Putin's regime.

Still lots of questions etc unanswered.

Are you really RT?

a reply to: Freeborn

Did a bit of googling and these came up.

Special Forces Regiment SAFARI Begins Clearing Operation in Bucha from Saboteurs and Accomplices of Russia - National Police

Special Units Of National Police Begin Cleansing Bucha

"On April 2, in the liberated city of Bucha, Kyiv region, special forces of the National Police of Ukraine began to cleanse the territory from saboteurs and accomplices of Russian troops," the statement says.

Bucha - free from the Russian occupiers - Fedoruk

Bucha Mayor Anatoliy Fedoruk said in a video message that the city had been liberated from Russian invaders.

"March 31 will go down in the history of our settlement, the entire territorial community as a day of liberation from the Russian orcs, from the Russian occupiers of our settlements by the Armed Forces of Ukraine ," Fedoruk said.

So there you go. Russians did leave the place in 30th March and the next day they AFU took over Bucha. Straight from Bucha mayor's mouth. All sources are Ukrainian.

a reply to: Gin

Ok.
What does that prove?

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: MisguidedAngel

Which sources?
Links?

Ukraine even talks about "cleansing" Bucha of saboteurs & accomplises....

en.lb.ua...

Russian forces left Bucha on March 30th the mayor said the city was liberated on March 31st but made no mention of this massacre


I'm also hearing the white arm bands meant friendly towards Russian forces but obviously don't know 100% on that,

a reply to: Freeborn
Erm.... you said this...

The UK has had zero influence in Pakistan for decades.

Now this tweaked my interest because I had heard a couple of snippets that UK was not too happy with Pakistan too. So I decided t do a little digging.

In Islamabad people will point in the direction of the British High Commission as the most important Western diplomatic mission, even more significant than the American.

British Chief of Defence Staff General Nicolas Carter is a frequent visitor to Rawalpindi and the British High Commission is the largest diplomatic mission that the UK has anywhere in the world.

UK-Pakistan ties are located in a fairly narrow band of diplomacy and military relations. There is certainly tactical dependency on both sides. Pakistan does not carry the baggage of post-colonialism in dealing with London. Its state functionaries are friendly and very connected with the UK, especially due to Britain’s various educational programmes. London is practically a second home and a natural refuge for the country’s political class and elite in general.

The approximately 1.2 million British of Pakistani origin that are now part of politics in northern England, and even other places, make it imperative for UK’s politicians to be conscious of Pakistan. The war on terror in Afghanistan and the terror attack in London in 2005 also played a role in bringing the two militaries and intelligence agencies together. For the UK, Pakistan is critical to keep itself secure.

bolded part mine.

In the 74 years after independence, bilateral relations between the UK and Pakistan remain tactical, a corner from where they cannot be pulled out unless Pakistan re-imagines itself. A successful internal negotiation between the various stakeholders at home and allowing a broader ownership to the citizenry is the starting point. The strength of bilateral ties with others is proportional to what happens inside.

The writer is author of ‘Military Inc’, and served as former director of naval research.

More at the link
So I don't think UK are too happy with Pakistan atm.
Rainbows
Jane

Directly from NYtimes
Looks like the far right groups were already there along side the foreign fighters.

You have the whole media trying to paint the far right as the Good Guys, doesn't this remind you how the media tried to paint the rebel/Jihadists as the good guys in Syria?

NYtimes

Ukrainian soldiers from the Azov battalion walked through the remnants of a Russian military convoy in the recently liberated town of Bucha on Saturday, just outside the capital after the Russians withdrew. Nearby residents reached for food being distributed by Ukrainian soldiers.


Many had not received food, or had electricity or gas to cook with — for more than a month. Older residents stood near a body left on the sidewalk. In the nearby town of Irpin, members of the Odin Unit, which includes foreign fighters from the United States and United Kingdom, took cover on Tuesday as they moved through the streets and cleared remaining Russian forces.

a reply to: angelchemuel

So I don't think UK are too happy with Pakistan atm.

According to Pakistan they arent going to be their slaves or puppets anymore.
Were angry after a EU asked to go agaisnt Russia or stop buying military goods.


It currently does show how desperate they are to defend the laundering state.

originally posted by: RussianTroll
a reply to: dollukka

Another staged fake video. Before his appearance, 4 days had passed since the Russian paratroopers left Bucha. And no one found anything for these 4 days.
The video with the bodies is puzzling: here at the beginning you can clearly see how the “corpse” on the right moves its hand. Further in the rearview mirror, the "corpse" suddenly rises and sits down. The bodies in the video seem to have been deliberately laid out in order to create a more dramatic picture. This is clearly visible if you play video at a speed of 0.25 of normal.

The massive worldwide media campaign that has been raised proves the custom and staged nature of these videos. Otherwise, these videos would have appeared 4 days ago.

Sorry but even if this video was faked, Russia invaded Ukraine, not vice versa.

They have been using military weapons against areas that were once suburban, and therefore non-military.

Dead civilians are the result of military ordinance being fired upon civilian populations. It isn't something improbable.

And historically, after the fall of Berlin, there were claims that the holocaust was a lie, too, and I don't believe those holocaust deniers either.

I don't know if this particular video was staged or not, but I would suspect that this would be a likely outcome of an overwhelmed and loosing military force over-responding to a strong civilian resistance working closely with national defense forces.

a reply to: angelchemuel

I don't think the UK are too happy with Pakistan as well.
But none of that suggests that the UK has any real influence on Pakistan politics, at all.

Whereas, as touched on, due to the high number of people of Pakistani origin in the UK, quite a few of whom are directly involved in UK politics, they do have quite a disproportionate influence on UK politics.... particularly in The Labour Party.
Especially considering the special emphasis put on minority interests, woke politics etc.

A discussion maybe for another time and place Jane?

I could go into a lot of detail but it would only derail the thread.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Gin

Ok.
What does that prove?

Pro Russians on ATS trying desperately to discredit Bucha Massacre.

I think that tells us a great deal.

a reply to: Freeborn
Haven't read beyond your post, so my apologies if somebody has already replied.

Approximately 150 American B-61 nuclear gravity bombs are stationed in five countries in Europe: Belgium, Germany, the Netherlands, Italy and Turkey.

The nuclear sharing arrangement is part of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s (NATO) defence policy.

When these bombs were initially deployed, the original targets were eastern European states. But as the Cold War ended, and these states became part of the European Union and in some cases NATO itself, the practice has become provocative, destabilising and dangerous.

Up to 20 nuclear bombs are stored at each of the following: the Kleine Brogel air base in Belgium, the Büchel Air Base in Germany, and the Volkel air base in the Netherlands.

Around 70 bombs are stored in Italy, distributed between the Aviano and Ghedi air bases.

An estimated 50 bombs are stored at the Incirlik air base in Turkey. The wisdom of storing such a large nuclear weapons stockpile in such a volatile region must be in doubt. Particularly worrying is that the base is less than 70 miles from war-torn Syria.

While Turkey is officially an ally of the US, and a member of NATO, increased tensions in recent months have highlighted the potential risks of the current situation. In December 2019, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan even threatened to close the base, which would leave the status of the nuclear weapons unclear.

more at the link
Romania.... granted this is from 2016...

EXCLUSIVE/ Two independent sources told euractiv.com that the US has started transferring nuclear weapons stationed in Turkey to Romania, against the background of worsening relations between Washington and Ankara.

Link
Then moving forwards to 2019 we have this....with a wee film of the display too.

NATO Shows Off Missile Base In Romania, Calling It 'Purely Defensive'

DEVESELU, Romania -- NATO's land-based missile-defense system in southern Romania has been a bone of contention between the alliance and Russia since it began operations at the start of 2016.

Russia claims the facility, along with a similar NATO base in Poland, is meant to undermine Moscow's nuclear deterrent.

bolded parts mine.
Much more at the link
Rainbows
Jane