Russia Ukraine Update Thread - part 2

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Truth.

Well, whatever it is, it's defnitely not to send Easter candy.

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: Xcathdra

The original 12 refused orders, stating that under Russian law the orders to deploy were illegal.

Know what else i wonder?

Considering Putin just signed approval for 135,000 draftees, if that is illegal per Russian law on non-wartime footing?

The Russian military is a hybrid setup. They have the people who voluntarily join the military. At the same time Russia, at least twice a year, gather (draft) conscripts. The term of service for conscripts is only 1 year. The reason behind the setup is to train people on the off chance a massive war starts, and they go to full mobilization, their population will have the basic skills to fire a gun. They do this twice a year and this is the 1st round for 2022.

The draft is completely separate from deployments so it doesn't violate Russian law. Deploying conscripts without declaring war does violate their laws.

With that being said Putin is going to do what Putin wants. The only issue with that are the reports of the military, at the senior levels, are upset because so far Putin has fired 8 generals. The threat of a military coup is on Putin's mind and reports suggest he is now taking added precautions, like using body doubles. He has used the body doubles to actually chair meetings with the military.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Yea. To be perfectly honest, i had completely forgotten its sping time already.

I was recently reading about Russian conscripts-apparently if you can afford it,you can buy your way out of being conscripted for about $3000.
For that reason it is mainly the very poor and less educated who end up going through that nightmare-I say nightmare because there are many articles availible which describe the daily life of a russian conscript as a horrific experience where daily abuse/torture/starvation/rape/sleep deprivation is how they are "trained" to be a soldier.
This obviously leads to very high suicide rates,many conscripts poisioning themselves to get sent to hospital,and a deep hatred for their superiors who inflict the torture on them.

As we are now seeing,that kind of abuse does not lead to a well disciplined,loyal,cohesive army of soldiers-in fact it leads to the opposite.
I would guess it also leads to many conscripts being far more cruel and willing to commit war crimes than other armies who are not beaten/raped/tortured every day throughout their training.

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2

Wonder how many they'll eventually round up. The morale of the Russians doesn't sound up to lengthy escape and evasion adventures.

Cheers

Was like 40k a few days ago of the dead, wounded, or captured. It's going to go up real fast with the retreat.

a reply to: Silcone Synapse

There appears to be a distinct and large gap in cohesion between the officer and enlisted ranks in the Russian army.

That guy who ran over his commander with a tank made for a sensational report, but I'd guess "fragging" is a real thing in their units in Ukraine now.

Cheers

originally posted by: Xcathdra

The draft is completely separate from deployments so it doesn't violate Russian law. Deploying conscripts without declaring war does violate their laws.

That is why on day one people were talking about how the conscripts were told it was a military exercise and to sign these papers that basically made them volunteers. No laws were violated...

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2

There appears to be a distinct and large gap in cohesion between the officer and enlisted ranks in the Russian army.

That guy who ran over his commander with a tank made for a sensational report, but I'd guess "fragging" is a real thing in their units in Ukraine now.

Cheers

That is why America's military power is the NCOs.

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
Too early to say, but the rapid russian retreat has me suspecting that russia is planning something unexpected.

Russian failure was pretty unexpected, that's for sure.

Russia will reduce the size of their exposure, by concentrating in the east of Ukraine, having failed to achieve all their objectives. Dig in and hope that they get away with it with no more losses.

What will be unexpected is Germany acting like they care.

not to drift topic but I'm very disappointed in Putin, and modern Russia.

I knew the Soviet Union was brutal, and Tsarist Russia could be pretty brutal also.

I liked to think that in the 21 century Russians were busy making money and just living their lives, that their military was reasonably professional, and that Putin was maybe heartless and Machiavellian, but not stupid or particularly cruel.

I still think Russia is better off under Putin than the Soviets, but I'm disappointed at the brutality.

New Evidence Of Russian Atrocities In Ukraine

Ukrainian Forces 'Destroy Russian Military Convoy'

Ukrainian Troops 'Destroy Russian Target With UK Made Javelin Missiles'

a reply to: Xtrozero

a thousand conscripts, airborne troops (NOT conscripts but active duty elite troops) and a lawyer say otherwise. The 2 Battle groups from S. Ossetia were deployed to Ukraine. When they found out why they refused the orders to deploy to Ukraine. They had to be shipped back to S. Ossetia. Units that recently left Ukraine to be refitted and manpower shortages replenished were to be redeployed to the east are now refusing to return to Ukraine. Units that suffered huge losses are refusing to redeploy. Russian officers are either being killed by their own soldiers while others are committing suicide.

so yeah, im thinking laws were broken.

Satellite images prior to Russian Withdrawal

Breaking News: Satellite images refute Russia’s claim that the killing of civilians in Bucha, a suburb of Ukraine's capital, occurred after its soldiers had left town, a New York Times analysis found.

a reply to: paraphi


Russians don't appear to be 'digging in' anywhere right now, they're behaving more like they plan to invade again, but this time using massed forces on one or two fronts instead of trying it with 5 fronts, which russia was obviously not able to succeed at.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Xtrozero

a thousand conscripts, airborne troops (NOT conscripts but active duty elite troops) and a lawyer say otherwise. The 2 Battle groups from S. Ossetia were deployed to Ukraine. When they found out why they refused the orders to deploy to Ukraine. They had to be shipped back to S. Ossetia. Units that recently left Ukraine to be refitted and manpower shortages replenished were to be redeployed to the east are now refusing to return to Ukraine. Units that suffered huge losses are refusing to redeploy. Russian officers are either being killed by their own soldiers while others are committing suicide.

so yeah, im thinking laws were broken.

Reread my post is was very sarcastic.

originally posted by: alphabetaone
a reply to: Snarl

Your image shows troops in arid middle eastern type regions filled with dust and sand.

This is a war being fought in urban areas, with snow and permafrost and concrete. Until it all starts to melt, fatigues can remain pretty soil free under those conditions.

They're also fighting near their homes they can go home and do laundry as well. They even set up showers for the troops they trained with NATO and are aware what troops expect from rear support units.

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: paraphi


Russians don't appear to be 'digging in' anywhere right now, they're behaving more like they plan to invade again, but this time using massed forces on one or two fronts instead of trying it with 5 fronts, which russia was obviously not able to succeed at.

It 'appearing' that way is my concern..great setup for an accident..