Russia Ukraine Update Thread - part 2

a reply to: Ravenwatcher

How are all these weapons and systems getting into the Ukraine from other countries ?

Ukraine has borders with 4 EU Countries, which are also members of NATO.

Unless Russia polices those borders then weapons can cross. The Russians can't do that.

a reply to: alldaylong

I guess that wasn't very well thought out by Putin ...... How on earth did Putin think he could take over a Country that boarders that many Nato members ?

Or is he trying to set up a de militarized zone like NK

a reply to: Grimpachi

The fact that they fired that woman for accusing people on loose grounds makes me trust them way more than Russians. That's a sign of a healthy justice system. And I'm not saying there's isn't corruption in Ukraine, maybe they just fired her out of necessity, out of fear that they'll loose foreign support when fake stories are exposed. But that doesn't matter. I have to be pragmatic and support the side that stands for truth and freer speech, the side that won't put you in prison just for standing on the street pretending to hold a sign in your hands. That's what my enemy is, that kind of totalitarian state wherever it may arise. And that's why I don't care if you tell me there's some Nazi with a black sun on their sleeve hiding in a hole in Azovstal or in a trench somewhere, or about to be executed.

Again, for some reason that can't be faked and it is accepted that Russian wives want their husbands to rape other women.

Maybe, I guess it must be for the same reason that Nazi collectibles can't be planted or swastikas drawn on a woman raped and killed by Russian soldiers instead.

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

Yeah, that's very useful. Thanks.

originally posted by: Ravenwatcher
a reply to: alldaylong

I guess that wasn't very well thought out by Putin ...... How on earth did Putin think he could take over a Country that boarders that many Nato members ?

Or is he trying to set up a de militarized zone like NK

In brief. I think Putin expected to seize Kyiv and have any organized resistance by Ukraine collapse. Had that happened quickly, NATO would have been faced with a fait accompli.

As for Putin's current goal, it seems to be to kick Ukrainian forces out of the Luhansk and Donetsk Oblasts. I expect what would happen thereafter would be attempts to negotiate a ceasefire followed by frozen war.

Cheers

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2

originally posted by: Ravenwatcher
a reply to: alldaylong

I guess that wasn't very well thought out by Putin ...... How on earth did Putin think he could take over a Country that boarders that many Nato members ?

Or is he trying to set up a de militarized zone like NK

In brief. I think Putin expected to seize Kyiv and have any organized resistance by Ukraine collapse. Had that happened quickly, NATO would have been faced with a fait accompli.

As for Putin's current goal, it seems to be to kick Ukrainian forces out of the Luhansk and Donetsk Oblasts. I expect what would happen thereafter would be attempts to negotiate a ceasefire followed by frozen war.

Cheers

I think that's Putin's plan then he can declare a victory and hope that the Russians quickly forget about all the dead Russians littering Ukraine.

Sadly though I don't think his plan will work I don't think the Ukrainians will negotiate to lose more territory. So this will likely drag on for years at this point. The only other way out is if Putin dies then someone else can move in and pull out the Russians.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Russian tanks are not set up for field maintenance they indeed do send them back to the factory. Russians made some design choices with their tanks. One is the autoloader which lowers a tank crew down to 3 people. Great for low profile making them harderto see. But dangerous for the crew itself. Has anyone noticed how many turrets are getting blown off Russian tanks? This is not because of some super anti-tank rounds in use its because Russians opted with the T-72 to have their ammunition storage in the form of a carousel in the body of the tank immediately under the turret the crew is surrounded by live rounds in the US tanks they are in a separate compartment with blowouts so if hit the crew will survive.

Now lets discuss the design flaws optimally on the t 72 you want to change the barrels after about 200 rounds the longer you wait the more dangerous they become.

www.firstpost.com...

Part of the problem is an inadequate cooling system which allows the barrel to get to hot or even cook off rounds in the barrel. Naturally this damages the barrel but here's the catch Russians have not been doing regular maintenance, So these barels over heat warp and destroys accuracy.

This is what happens when a t 72 barrel is overused this shows a Russian tank crew dying in Syria because the barrel got to hot.

a reply to: Cutepants

I have to be pragmatic and support the side that stands for truth and freer speech, the side that won't put you in prison just for standing on the street pretending to hold a sign in your hands.

Too bad that isn't Ukraine. Weren't you the one that got upset about the gory pics of the people that were tortured and murdered with their bodies dumped by Kyiv?

At first, you thought they were UA soldiers but they were people who spoke against the government. That is a bit worse than prison isn't it?

I wish people would be more honest about what Ukraine is. It is not a bastion of freedom especially if you are a Russian speaker.

Ukraine operates a lot more like Russia than operating like the west when it comes to freedoms.

Maybe, I guess it must be for the same reason that Nazi collectibles can't be planted or swastikas drawn on a woman raped and killed by Russian soldiers instead.

Let's be clear. There were no Nazi collectibles. It was based with ordinance and weapons they had destroyed before leaving. You could hear the battle still ongoing in the background.

One of the other things I learned about corpsed when trying to debunk it was knowing what signs to look for if a body had been moved. It is all about blood pooling at the lowest point.

To even suggest that in such an area where there was an active conflict going on that Ru could stage all of that is IMO completely ludicrous. There is a line where things become just too absurd to be plausible and that is going way over that line. That is Sandy Hook denial level over the line.

Then there is the fact that the same people Ru were fighting are the ones who before the war posted videos of them severing people's heads that they had captured, nailing people to a cross and burning them alive, shelled civilian districts for 8 years and they recorded themselves doing it to post online.

Ru is pretty effed up but they are nowhere near the level of effed up that Ukraine is. Ukraine is off the charts and just watch. I predict that the right wing there becomes a European ISIS in the near future.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Ukraine operates a lot more like Russia than operating like the west when it comes to freedoms.

That's the beauty of it. By liberating themselves from Russian control they've already become a freer society. Not because Russians are bad people, but because their system is flawed. I think Putin in one of the recent speeches called America a system-forming country, meaning it has cultural hegemony I guess. Putin gets it too, he just wants the opposite of what I want.

But I'm not pro-Ukraine because I want to reward them for being good in the past or whatever. I want them integrated with Europe to make the EU stronger, but also to have them as a counterweight to Germany and France.

Let's be clear. There were no Nazi collectibles. It was based with ordinance and weapons they had destroyed before leaving. You could hear the battle still ongoing in the background.

No, I was talking about other cases, stuff from Russia and the bunkers.

One of the other things I learned about corpsed when trying to debunk it was knowing what signs to look for if a body had been moved. It is all about blood pooling at the lowest point.

To even suggest that in such an area where there was an active conflict going on that Ru could stage all of that is IMO completely ludicrous. There is a line where things become just too absurd to be plausible and that is going way over that line. That is Sandy Hook denial level over the line.

Why are you suggesting someone would need to move a corpse from one place to another? And why do you think it's ludicrous? I'm not talking about planting DNA evidence or anything fancy like that, they don't need to make it hold up in a court.

Ru is pretty effed up but they are nowhere near the level of effed up that Ukraine is. Ukraine is off the charts and just watch. I predict that the right wing there becomes a European ISIS in the near future.

Let's keep our eyes peeled I guess. That basically already happened in Donbas by the way, so I think it could happen in Ukraine too and especially in a lot of African and ME countries if the whole situation stays #ed. Have you heard about how Russian conscripts are raped and forced into prostitution to make money, btw?

Again though, I don't think this blame game leads anywhere. It's part of the war itself, the information war between Russia and the West. We shouldn't confuse the means of war with the ends.

a reply to: Grimpachi

www.minusrus.com... various sources claiming to track Russian tanks losses this one just has numbers

www.oryxspioenkop.com... this one seems to be the more reputable one as it only adds numbers when they have photos of said destroyed tanks

Tanks (749, of which destroyed: 419, damaged: 20, abandoned: 55, captured: 255)

it covers the whole list of russian equipment

mobile.twitter.com... this one also goes by photos but covers russian and ukraine losses

originally posted by: dragonridr

This is what happens when a t 72 barrel is overused this shows a Russian tank crew dying in Syria because the barrel got to hot.

Im thinking if they had just managed to fit in two,maybe three more Alahu Akabars,that tank barrel may have remained just cool enough to not explode.
So close.

a reply to: dragonridr

This is what happens when a t 72 barrel is overused this shows a Russian tank crew dying in Syria because the barrel got to hot.

A couple of things first.

That is a video of a T54/T55 originally designed in 1945. They take a 4 man crew because there is no autoloader, it has a 100mm rifled bore and they are flying the Lybian flag.

Nice sentiment about the Russian crew dying tho.

I think it is probably a safe bet that maintenance on it wasn't up to standards.

Russian tanks are not set up for field maintenance they indeed do send them back to the factory.

I can't find anything that says T72s have to be sent back to the factory for replacement. How would that even make sense? They have sold T72s to countries all across the world. Are you saying they have to send them back to Russia for Canon replacements?

What is so special about the factory that makes this a requirement? Are there particular cranes and winches that can only be found in the factory that can achieve the replacement?

Seems to me that no one would have bought T72s if that was the case.

Looking into the follow-up to your article it seems the problem was fixed by replacing the barrels with the 2A46M 125mm smooth bore. They were shipped to India and they did the replacement. So I guess a factory isn't necessary after all.

link

That made me curious so I looked up the main armament that is listed for the T72 and it says they are all 125 mm 2A46M/2A46M-5[7] smoothbores now.

Your information was correct almost a decade ago in 2013 when the article was written. Looking further I haven't seen any other such issues reported with the replacement barrels.

As for the turrent design and ammo storage. It is complete crap. As they produce more T14s they should just convert the T72s into Terminators. The new terminator turrent doesn't have that problem and it has an obscene amount of Armor for an AFV. Reports are they carry more armor than the tank and remain lighter than the T72.

a reply to: Cutepants

Have you heard about how Russian conscripts are raped and forced into prostitution to make money, btw?

Yeah, I have heard that. lol, I have also seen 4 UA POWs state on video that their commander repeatedly raped them.

I choose not to believe any of it.

Both UA and Ru are extremely homophobic. I just don't see them raping each other in their down time.

a reply to: Grimpachi

It requires major overhaul and Russia does not have the cranes or support staff to do it in the field. Only 3 guys on a Tank cannot perform major repairs. For Russia, their logic was they could use rails to transport the tanks. Even changing the barrel is a significant operation as you have to remove part of the autoloader, which requires removing the turret. A damaged gun barrel needs to be changed entirely, same for a damaged breech. It's not something you can do simply in the field. Even the M1 is very difficult to change in the field they have a special wrench included for just such emergencies however you need something like an m88 to even lift the barrel out of the turret. So even US forces will ship the tank to the rear for repair. Usually, an air base where they can set up repair facilities

Russia does not have the setup to repair vehicles largely because the Soviets didn't require it. They knew they could ship damaged Tanks back to factories just like they did in ww2. The extensive rail system is a huge advantage for the Russian military thas why it is controlled by them.







Oh and you want to know how India fixed those tanks? they hired a Ukrainian company

www.defstrat.com...

a reply to: dragonridr

So let me get this straight. Russia has to send their tanks back to their factory to replace barrels but other countries including UA and the DPR are able to do it without sending them to factories.

There is a way for the M1 to replace its barrel in the field if necessary and compared to the T72 it is a precision machine but for the T72 which has been lauded for its simplicity of mechanics, it can't be done.

That just doesn't add up strategically.

It would be extremely foolish to rely on a factory to do all of that. One strike on the factory could cripple them. This is a country that for a long time decided more is better.



Here is what I believe, replacing one in the field is likely very difficult and they likely have repair refurbishing centers all across the country where such things can be carried out.

It was reported that they have 13,000 tanks. Just imagine if they needed to replace something like the barrel of half of them because of something like reports of ordinance cooking off in the barrels. Sending all of those back to the factory would cost a fortune in manpower alone. Loading them all on trains shipping them back and forth. How long would that take? What about the fuel costs?

Oh, I never insinuated 3 guys such as the crew was going to replace a barrel. They do have mobile mechanic units.

As I said that doesn't add up strategically.

a reply to: Grimpachi

And now you just figured out why Russia has to stay close to home and has no real capabilities to deploy major operations outside of Russia.

a reply to: Grimpachi

I mean people do things for money. Doesn't mean they like gays. Kind of like in prison I guess.

a reply to: dragonridr

Oh and you want to know how India fixed those tanks? they hired a Ukrainian company

www.defstrat.com...

While the added video and article are interesting. They don't say or show what is claimed.

The video shows IFVs not tanks. There probably are some on there.

The article says they have some partnership/business. It is possible that Ukraine sent people to help install the new turrents that Russia shipped to India but it doesn't say that.

I would say that shipping the tanks from India to Ukraine with the turrents that were shipped to India to install has a very low probability rate as well. That was also around the time that UA fell from a coup.

It is just sad how bad UA effed up. They had all that war industry potential which is now mostly in smoldering ruins.

a reply to: dragonridr

Honestly, I just think you are wrong. You made a lot of claims but haven't shown evidence to prove your position so why are you taking a victory lap?

a reply to: Grimpachi

Russia has 2 repair facilities for tanks. they are owned by Uralzavod (Uralvagonzavod) Corporation and the Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant