Russia Ukraine Update Thread - part 2

a reply to: Xcathdra

Just in case anyone is wondering,

New York or Niu-York (Ukrainian: Нью-Йорк, romanized: Niu-York, Ukrainian pronunciation: [ˈnʲʊ jɔ̈rk]) is an urban settlement in Toretsk urban hromada of Bakhmut Raion of Donetsk Oblast, at 37.9 km NNE from the centre of Donetsk city.

from en.wikipedia.org...

Cheers

Interesting re corruption in Russian military and general incompetence in maintaining equipment, in this case their crap "Carrier":



www.19fortyfive.com...

a reply to: Grimpachi

Tanks can fire between 100 and 200 rounds before you need to replace it. Depends on the tank and the rounds fired of course.

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2
It seems reflective of an older view of war in which civilians are seen as chattel. A 19th century outlook paired with 20th century weapons.

An insightful observation that deserves more attention from me than is possible without straying off-topic: There is historical lineage between Sherman's March to the Sea (U.S. Civil War) and RAF Bomber Command's targeting of German cities with area bombing (WW2).

Broadly, in times of international stability, wars are fought among armies or counter-insurgency efforts., but world wars are fought with a country's entire resources devoted to the war effort. Ukraine is fighting the war at the national level, and Russia is attempting a "special military operation."

I am mildly surprised by this; Russia suffered enough abuse at the hands of the Nazis to understand this behavior is plainly wrong in any culture.

Tyrannical regimes never display those kinds of insights, which was demonstrated when Soviet forces entered Germany in 1945. Soviet soldiers frequently raped women in between, wiping out the German war machine.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Especially since the Russians have claimed to have killed him several times now..

Really? It is weird that I have never seen a single mention of that in any Ru channel. After he was exposed as being a fake from those first videos the word was he would never see the front line. Lots of comments on the nice clean uniforms though. It is kind of weird they would repeatedly report he was killed.

Damn those inconsistent Russians. lol

Wait, wait, was he the one who said that Russians kept claiming they killed him? If so, that would make sense.

and yet he is still more reliable and believable than you and your Russian propaganda.

Uh-huh. Sure.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Grimpachi

Tanks can fire between 100 and 200 rounds before you need to replace it. Depends on the tank and the rounds fired of course.

Are you sure? They have smooth bore barrels. There is no rifling to wear out. Nore are they using variable charges that would stress the barrel.

It seems weird that they would need to be replaced as often as rifled naval cannons.


Do you have a link?

a reply to: Grimpachi

Specific to the t72s India had a huge problem with them exploding after as few as 100 rounds

a reply to: Grimpachi

The wear rate on the the M256(abrams main gun) is 1500 EFC (Effective Full Charge i.e. combat) rounds. It is one of the longer lasting barrels out there as compared to the 125mm 2A46 which is around 250 EFC.

The truth is that most US barrels will be replaced well before 1500 rounds, most of which will be training which have a lower charge (50–75% EFC). and most Russian made barrels will still be in use long after 250 EFC and should have been scrapped long ago.

Accuracy is the primary reason U.S. tanks change barrels early not safety.

Russian tanks should change their gun barrels after 500 rounds or less depending on weather and use.
T-72 cannons,are usually well over replacement date these days.

a reply to: Cutepants

I never said they'd replace barrels in storage. Maybe they wear out in storage too under poor conditions, but when tanks fire their guns they gradually loose accuracy and have to be replaced at some point. Abrams barrels are replaced after 1,500 rounds apparently. I'd guess Russia lets them fire more, but yeah. What about this doesn't make sense to you?

I guess that is fair. There is another aspect though. Why would they need to ship new barrels to the tank factory? Seems to me that barrel replacement from wear and tear could be done by trained tank mechanics in the field.

All of it. If you happen to be on the street and haven't turned up, I guess that's where you get conscripted.

Go out for a pack of smokes get nabbed and sent to the front. BTW, that happened according to one poor POW.

Igor Girkin aka Strelkov was a commander of the separatists back in 2014, and defense minister of the mini republics. Basically a hardliner who has been criticizing Putin for not being hawkish enough, lol. He uses some funny insults sometimes.

OK, I will look into it. The guardian said they did an interview with Russian soldiers. I didn't realize the Guardian had reporters on the Russian side. I find that most interesting.

Right, and I compared both sides. Who has said they aren't hoping to attract professionals? I wrote about it in my previous post. And 50+ men are perfectly capable of lighter roles like standing guard in a trench somewhere. But where do you get this idea that Russia doesn't lack cannon fodder, just because they also lack specialists? That's what I was wondering about.

Simply because there are fewer specialists in the world than unskilled labor which is why they call them specialists. Also because they are not being conscripted. They are open to volunteers.

I'm just not going to have a discussion with your video. If you want to talk about it then you do the work.

You just asked what the system was. I guess I should have just named it and be done with it instead of giving you are video that goes into the specifics of why it is the best air defense system in the world at the moment.

The S-400 Triumph (NATO reporting name: SA-21 Growler)

That was actually much easier than giving you additional info.

Yes urban combat is tough on the attacker, that also explains why Ukraine would hold on to it. And my understing is that they've now mostly pulled out of the city, yeah.

Urban combat is a bitch. I heard they were pulling back but not much else since yesterday.

edit to add

Looks like they are still making tanks.

t.me...

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Grimpachi

Specific to the t72s India had a huge problem with them exploding after as few as 100 rounds

What is huge to you and where is the link?

originally posted by: Grimpachi
Are you sure? They have smooth bore barrels. There is no rifling to wear out. Nore are they using variable charges that would stress the barrel.

The British Challenger 2 uses a rifled barrel and is good for 400 rounds... Wiki

The Leopard 2 and other NATO tanks use the Rheinmetall smoothbore, which has a barrel life of c. 1,400 rounds... Wiki

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: Grimpachi

The wear rate on the the M256(abrams main gun) is 1500 EFC (Effective Full Charge i.e. combat) rounds. It is one of the longer lasting barrels out there as compared to the 125mm 2A46 which is around 250 EFC.

The truth is that most US barrels will be replaced well before 1500 rounds, most of which will be training which have a lower charge (50–75% EFC). and most Russian made barrels will still be in use long after 250 EFC and should have been scrapped long ago.

Accuracy is the primary reason U.S. tanks change barrels early not safety.

Russian tanks should change their gun barrels after 500 rounds or less depending on weather and use.
T-72 cannons,are usually well over replacement date these days.

That is pretty close to what I came across on Quora. I also read that the 2A46 short barrel life was rectified fixed with the 2A46M-1 version

a reply to: Grimpachi

Well just because some guy on telegram said it doesn't mean they were going to the tank factory. But I think it's reasonable to assume the factory also refits old tanks and so on.

Go out for a pack of smokes get nabbed and sent to the front. BTW, that happened according to one poor POW.

As it should be. Or do you have a problem with that? At least these guys knew what they were getting into, unlike people in the occupied areas like Donbas who have a foreign army come in, rape their daughters and force them to fight against their own countrymen.

Simply because there are fewer specialists in the world than unskilled labor which is why they call them specialists. Also because they are not being conscripted.

I don't follow your logic there. And like I said, mobilization would be dangerous for the regime.

The S-400 Triumph (NATO reporting name: SA-21 Growler)

That was actually much easier than giving you additional info.

Thanks, and I'm sorry if I get unnecessarily rude or dismissive. We disagree about this war on so many levels, and I don't think that will change. But I'll try to keep in mind no-one can be right all the time, not even me lol.

Anyway, I thought Bayraktars were small and low-flying enough that systems such as s-400 weren't a big threat, but I may well be wrong about that. Especially since there aren't a lot of larger Ukrainian planes to target.

a reply to: yuppa

That's really useful to know. I was trying to look this up, but it's hard to understand the big picture just by googling.

a reply to: Cutepants

Well just because some guy on telegram said it doesn't mean they were going to the tank factory. But I think it's reasonable to assume the factory also refits old tanks and so on.

They have many facilities that can refit tanks. It doesn't make sense to clot up production lines for a simple cannon replacement.
Some guy said on telegram can also be applied to every piece of info from your sources because they are just someone making claims themselves. Let's not devolve into such petty squabbles.

As it should be. Or do you have a problem with that?

Yeah, I actually do.

At least these guys knew what they were getting into, unlike people in the occupied areas like Donbas who have a foreign army come in, rape their daughters and force them to fight against their own countrymen.

That is some serious propaganda you are pushing there. Evidence?
That info didn't come from the official in Ukraine that was fired for lying about rapes, was it?

I don't follow your logic there. And like I said, mobilization would be dangerous for the regime.

Simply put. It is harder to find specialists in fields than unskilled labor. It is very basic. The talk of mobilization of Russia makes no sense. Over a million strong active military and only about a 150K deployed.

I thought Bayraktars were small and low-flying enough that systems such as s-400 weren't a big threat, but I may well be wrong about that. Especially since there aren't a lot of larger Ukrainian planes to target.

I am pretty sure they have the same or close to the same flight ceiling as Grey eagles. Also, consider that both sides have radar that can track cannon rounds. A Bayraktar is much bigger than a canon round. For smaller lower flying drones there are a lot of different missile systems. Even their equivalent of a stinger could do it.

This is an example of a low flying drone being shot down. It recorded its own demise.

t.me...

I read an article a few weeks ago talking about some projects being considered to tackle drone usage in wars.

The most interesting proposal was making more drones to destroy the drones. Hunter killer drones armed with 7.62 of 5.56 hunting down and strafing recon drones came to mind. Or maybe even ones with miniature rockets with proximity fuses.

As is, it is a war of money. A 20K missile taking down a 500K drone is a pretty good tradeoff but it is still expensive. The drones or missiles could be more or less expensive as well.

a reply to: Grimpachi

What do you mean clot up production lines? I'm not saying they should start refitting tanks in the middle of the production line, lol. Assuming the production line is still running even.

Yeah, I actually do.

It's reality though and Russians too have been coerced into fighting in this war. And conscription has happened in America and the UK as well. You can turn your nose up but both Russia and Ukraine have relied on conscription for their survival as nations.

That is some serious propaganda you are pushing there. Evidence?
That info didn't come from the official in Ukraine that was fired for lying about rapes, was it?

And here you go, instantly devolving into what you just petty squabbles, as soon as it benefits your point of view. I've heard accounts from people who have been there and you can find them all over the place in media too, but I know you choose to not believe.

Over a million strong active military and only about a 150K deployed.

Not this again. If anyone is interested they can read our previous posts. I'm not going to bother explaining to you again how militaries aren't all frontline infantry.

For smaller lower flying drones there are a lot of different missile systems. Even their equivalent of a stinger could do it.

True, but that's why I was asking about different systems.

Hunter killer drones armed with 7.62 of 5.56 hunting down and strafing recon drones came to mind. Or maybe even ones with miniature rockets with proximity fuses.

That's interesting yeah. I wonder which caliber would be optimal.

a reply to: Cutepants

5.56mm AP would prolly work well on drones. not heavy as 7.62.

a reply to: Cutepants

What do you mean clot up production lines? I'm not saying they should start refitting tanks in the middle of the production line, lol. Assuming the production line is still running even.

If you look up the facilities of the one tank production plant then you would understand what I mean.

It's reality though and Russians too have been coerced into fighting in this war. And conscription has happened in America and the UK as well. You can turn your nose up but both Russia and Ukraine have relied on conscription for their survival as nations.

I have a problem with how they are being conscripted. Not with the necessity of conscription. They are ambushing people on the street giving them a summons and taking down their names or they are taking them straight to camp.
They are not being served through any system. They have people hunting down bodies and on the spot conscripting them.

And here you go, instantly devolving into what you just petty squabbles, as soon as it benefits your point of view. I've heard accounts from people who have been there and you can find them all over the place in media too, but I know you choose to not believe.

I have seen a couple. One was an old woman that they blurred her face. It takes a special kind of sick to be going after grandma's but really. Then there was the reports of Radio confessions that were supposedly intercepted. I guess it wasn't questioned because you can't fake two people speaking Russian on a radio in a country where a large portion of the population speaks Russian? Then there was the "intercepted phone call" of a wife telling her husband to rape Ukrainian women. Again, for some reason that can't be faked and it is accepted that Russian wives want their husbands to rape other women.

Nothing weird or suspicious with any of those right?

It is also a fact that the one who was putting out stories about rapes was fired because she didn't have evidence to back up the claims she was making.

There are actual videos of women found raped and killed by UA soldiers. One of the worst was where the body was found in the basement of a school Azov was using as a base. they had taken that day. The body was already past the point of rigor mortise which lasts 24 to 78 hrs depending on outside conditions.

They didn't mention the rigor Mortise part. I found that out trying to debunk what I was seeing by researching the stages.

True, but that's why I was asking about different systems.

I don't know all the systems. I do know they layer their air defense, I do know about the bushmaster which is reported as the best that any country fields.

That's interesting yeah. I wonder which caliber would be optimal.

I actually get a chuckle thinking about drones having dogfights with each other one day.

I got a question .

How are all these weapons and systems getting into the Ukraine from other countries ?

And why hasn't Russia took over Air superiority and bombed the crap out of any incoming weapons delivery's ?

a reply to: Cutepants

As reference, the 2022 "Military Balance" has Russian active forces as 900,000. Of that--

Only 280,000 in the army, including conscripts. Around 320,000 if airborne forces are included.

Others:

Navy - 150,000
Air Force - 165,000
Strategic Rocket Forces - 50,000
Airborne forces - 45,000
Special Ops - 1,000 (distinct from Spetsnaz GRU)
Railway forces - 29,000
Command and Support - 180,000

Reserves of all arms are given as 2,000,000.

Anyone wishing to check this quote can look at page 193 of the publication.

Cheers