Russia Ukraine Update Thread - part 2

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

I haven't seen Zaph for a while.

As for the air portion of the war -

Russian Fighter Jet Shot Down by Ukraine Air Force in Dogfight

ARussian fighter jet was shot down by the Ukrainian air force in an aerial battle Friday afternoon, according to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

"Today, May 27, at about 2 pm, a MiG-29 fighter of the Air Force of the Armed Forces of Ukraine shot down a Russian Su-35 fighter in the sky of Kherson region," the air force said in a statement. The Su-35, it added, was "hunting for Ukrainian assault aircraft."

"Glory to Ukrainian pilots! Death to the occupiers!" the statement proclaimed.

The dogfight is the latest blow to Russia's offensive in Ukraine, which has failed to defeat the Ukrainians' military resistance since Russian President Vladimir Putin launched the invasion on February 24. The air war in particular has gone badly. "The Russian Air Force still shows no sign of running a campaign to gain air superiority," retired British Air Marshal Edward Stringer previously told Newsweek.

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I think this is because of Putin's ego. The more he pours russia into Ukraine the greater the chances are for Russians to start seeing what is actually going on. So he is forced to "make do" with what he has. Which, in and of itself, is interesting because it means Putin's image of being a strongman / macho does have limits.

If Putin has total control then there would be no problems with pulling more troops to allocate to the war with Ukraine and there should be no issues with getting equipment into Ukraine.

For some reason Putin can't do that and is instead resorting to non conventional methods to try to plug the holes in his dingy. I think this predicament Putin finds himself in is a more powerful enemy than NATO ever could be.

Putins mindset is from the 1980's however the Russian peoples is more current.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I think drones are doing more to access the third dimension of the battlefield than airborne troops or helicopter operations ever did, simply because the drones are practically omnipresent.

Cheers

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

Which Putin, nor his Generals and intel people, did not plan for with regards to Ukraine having access to drones as well.

a reply to: GAOTU789

Russian estimates of damage they have done to Ukraine -

According to Russian forces, since February 24 they have destroyed 179 warplanes, 127 helicopters, 1,019 unmanned aerial vehicles, 323 air defense systems, 3,266 tanks and armored fighting vehicles, 433 multiple launch rocket systems, 1,682 artillery systems and 3,190 military vehicles. In addition, throughout the three-month conflict Russia has fired more missiles than any other country has done since World War II.

Ukrainian estimates of damage they have done to Russia -

On Friday, the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine reported that Russia has lost 29,750 troops, 1,322 tanks, 3,246 armored fighting vehicles, 623 artillery systems, 201 multiple launch rocket systems, 93 air defense systems, 206 warplanes, 170 helicopters, 503 unmanned aerial vehicles, 115 cruise missiles, 13 warships, 2,226 military vehicles and fuel tankers and 48 units of special equipment, all since the start of the invasion.

Is this telling?

"Putin signs law scrapping upper age limit to enlist in Russian military: The Russian President has signed a law scrapping the upper age limit for Russians and foreigners to join the military as contract service members, according to Russian state news agency TASS. Russia’s State Duma passed the bill on Wednesday but Putin's signature was needed for it to become law. Previously, citizens aged 18 to 40 and foreigners aged 18 to 30 could enlist in the Russian military." www.cnn.com...

a reply to: yuppa


It's a bit more complex than that, but what you read is probably technically correct.

Low altitude detection is possible with some variants, but only at such short range that the launcher would need to be quite a bit farther along the flight path than the radar in order to actually hit anything.

It would also need to gain quite a bit of altitude first and then come down on the target, as it gets sling shotted higher than 50 feet prior to/during ignition.

It gets so challenging that I doubt anyone other than russia would ever try it in actual combat.

Much easier and far less expensive (and probably a lot more effective) to use Mr. Stinger under 10k.

It was originally designed for extreme altitude and extreme speed interceptions (U2 and Blackbird), but it's real strength is in a range from around 10k to 100k, and many variants are effective at MUCH higher altitudes than that.



That's the best info I have anyway, I'd love to hear how close that is to reality from someone like Zaphod though.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

ahh.What about ones that can be fired from the rail without being vaulted off first? was ther any s-300 variants like that ever made?

Still i imagine they prolly should had mentioned the 50 ft was the start phase lol.

originally posted by: Annee
Is this telling?

"Putin signs law scrapping upper age limit to enlist in Russian military: The Russian President has signed a law scrapping the upper age limit for Russians and foreigners to join the military as contract service members, according to Russian state news agency TASS. Russia’s State Duma passed the bill on Wednesday but Putin's signature was needed for it to become law. Previously, citizens aged 18 to 40 and foreigners aged 18 to 30 could enlist in the Russian military." www.cnn.com...

Yes, very much so.

It's been discussed in several of this thread's video sources a few times recently, and it is a very big deal.


They are DESPERATE for trained troops after losing at least 60,000 (all categories) so far, including seeing some of russia's very best and most famous units completely wiped out in the first weeks of the war, units that take nearly a decade to train.

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

ahh.What about ones that can be fired from the rail without being vaulted off first? was ther any s-300 variants like that ever made?

Still i imagine they prolly should had mentioned the 50 ft was the start phase lol.

I think it can actually hit something like a cruise missile at 50 feet, but it isn't all that easy, so I don't think anyone is really using them that way.


There are SO many variants, I honestly don't know (rails). I didn't actually count them, but it looked like around 100 specific variants in Jane's.


Can you imagine the russian logistics challenges with 100 very different variants?

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
Most significant reason I've come up with so far:

russia appears to be completely baffled by Ukraine's new(ish) tech and tactics.

The importance of this can't be overstated, russia rarely appears to know what's hitting them, or how to properly prevent it. They are repeatedly doing the exact opposite of what they should be in just about every way, and the confusion in this area is regularly displayed in drone video and communication intercepts. This alone can break the bear's back if it continues long enough.

During the first gulf war the USSR actually provided the US with some assistance to defeat the sam systems Iraq was using. Some of the Russian officers who were interfacing with the US went on to talk about strengths and weaknesses they see with the US military with some comparison to the doctrines Russia uses.

The Russians absolutely hated the fact we had our own doctrine which empowered lower ranking officers / non coms to throw our book (military doctrine) out the window the moment it is not working. That unpredictability apparently scared the crap out of the Russians.

The Russian doctrine does not allow it to be discarded when it does not work. Everything must be done by the numbers, which provides help to Russian officers but also makes them completely vulnerable to any enemy that has read the Russian military playbook. For example the Russian doctrine when ground forces are engaged is to utilize artillery. The Russian (USSR) doctrine fires artillery a distance behind the opposing force in order to do damage to enemy units who are disengaging / falling back to regroup. The US took that knowledge and developed a counter to it by advancing its forces instead of falling back to regroup.

The enemies the US has faced had their military using the Russian doctrine.

It does not work but Russia cant seem to let the past go... ironic.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

some of russia's very best and most famous units completely wiped out in the first weeks of the war, units that take nearly a decade to train.

Ten years to train and then wiped out in a few weeks.

Must have spent 9 of those years in the pub.

originally posted by: fuzz4262
a reply to: Xcathdra

Russia is at war with NATO with Ukraine as a proxy. It should take hundreds of years at the shortest.

If Russia were at war with NATO then Russia would not be claiming they are at war with NATO.

Russia IS at war with western equipment though...


Russia needs to think that comparison through to the end before they gamble that NATO would not respond if Bio/Chem/Nukes are used by Russia. There state run media is claiming that if Russia nuked New York City or used wmds in Ukraine we would not respond.

It is that mindset that is destroying Russia.

I think this war is very beneficial for Russia. It gives Russian military good training, assessment of what works, what don't work, what hardware is needed, what hardware is not needed. On top of that, war rejuvenates a nation and ups the natural birth rate. War prevents a nation from becoming decadent, the situation portrayed in Idiocracy movie.

a reply to: alldaylong


One of those 'famous' units was wiped out by Kharkiv Kids spotting targets for UA on a smartphone app.

Imagine learning that our 82nd was completely wiped out, and that it was kids under 16 that had picked them off by sending targeting info to a backwater military (no offense to Ukraine, but they sure didn't have the ability to do that on paper)

Unfortunately, an 'indy journalist' I was getting on the ground info from at the time (and posting here) was killed in that engagement.

He is also where I got the AN-225 breaking story from about a week before his death, he was very near the battle and personally watched russia destroy it as the crew was preparing for an escape dash out of the hanger, across a field where a fence had just been just removed, and then using a cleared highway to take off. As far as I know, they never even got the engines spinning.

Russia missiled a cinema in Lisichansk, said to be a Ukrainian army base.

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O group in the forest south of Lyman. O group is mainly Chechens.

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a reply to: fuzz4262

I think this war is very beneficial for Russia. It gives Russian military good training, assessment of what works, what don't work, what hardware is needed, what hardware is not needed

Warmonger.

originally posted by: fuzz4262
I think this war is very beneficial for Russia. It gives Russian military good training, assessment of what works, what don't work, what hardware is needed, what hardware is not needed. On top of that, war rejuvenates a nation and ups the natural birth rate. War prevents a nation from becoming decadent, the situation portrayed in Idiocracy movie.

I'm not sure that the "old rules" apply anymore.

I think this will change Russia forever.

And people tend to be more evolved these days.

Apparently, the first Bushmaster MRAP Australia supplied to Ukraine has bitten the dust.

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a reply to: fuzz4262

Training only works when the soldiers in question are alive and can share that info with others. A dead soldiers can't do that, as we are clearly seeing with Russia.


Also - a request.

Could you please stop spamming videos that have nothing to do with updates. I get it that you are doing it to support your view that the west is full of a bunch of idiots just as some of us think Russia is full of idiots.

We know each others opinions in that regard.

respectfully.

Orlan drone films Krasnopol strike on a bunched group of Ukrainians. It is claimed there is 1 survivor to tell the tale.

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