Ukraine against its own citizens

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Boadicea

He's got his ""threat"" now that's a given.

Please be more specific. What "threat" are you speaking of? Specifically?

Never mind seems to be issuing a few of his own.

No "never mind." It's all part and parcel of the big picture. The totality of circumstances.

There is a reason that our criminal code takes provocation into account when determining the justification for reactions to that provocation. Self-defense is considered justification for lethal force in self-defense. It is everyone's absolute inalienable Natural right, granted by our Creator.

If Russia was provoked, that is a legitimate and valid justification for lethal force to protect and defend themselves.

But any respect he sought is down the Khazi.

I doubt Putin was looking for -- or expected -- any respect from the west. I'm pretty sure he knew that was never going to happen.

a reply to: Boadicea

Specifically nuclear war.

There is a reason you don't have any "proof", so there is that.

Russia was provoked to invade another nation and launch cruise missiles at there neighbour?

What a load of twaddle!

Sounding like a Communist now Boadicea from the last century.

How the worm turns.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Boadicea

I just wanted proof.

You dont have that, nether does anybody else.

Cheers for the admission all the same.

Cheers for not pretending to know what I don't know? And being intellectually honest enough to say so?

Okay. I guess that is a big deal these days.

What's obvious is what happening in Ukraine.

No, not obvious. We only know what we're being told... and we only know that's what we're being told. We don't know who is doing what, or not doing this or that, or anything else.

As to my beliefs well im entitled to those...

Yup. You're just not "entitled" to present your beliefs as facts.

...just like you are entitled to believe whatever it is you choose to believe, without any sort of facts to support your butthurt nonsense alterative facts to reality.

Big big sigh. As I have stated repeatedly, all we know is that we do not know and cannot know the whole truth. It is impossible for me to have an opinion when I don't have any idea what is true and what is war propaganda. And I won't pretend otherwise.

Only people I'm cheering for is Ukraine right now same as the majority of the rest of the planet.

And I'm praying for the whole world.

a reply to: Boadicea



"But I'm not the one proclaiming truth"

Your posts betray that lie.

a reply to: Boadicea

Cheers right back at you.

Is common sense Putin requires.

As to praying for the whole world.

Well its not the whole world causing all the kerfuffle at present, just Russia and Putin.

originally posted by: Boadicea

What a ridiculous thing to say... and presume to know. That's not a "truth." It's an opinion. Or a belief.

Even at the most superficial level, we know that Ukraine has been flooded with weapons by western nations and NATO, and we know that promises and guarantees to Russia have been broken for decades.

So are you suggesting the West was using Ukraine to launch an unprovoked attack against the mother land sometime in the future? Do Russians feel threaten by Ukraine, a country you could smash like a bug if so desired?

I've looked at this ten ways from Sunday, and I don't see any good reason for Putin to invade unless he genuinely believed there was a threat of some sort that he felt responsible to thwart. He knew taking action would hurt Russia. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the west's saber rattling included a clear and direct threat to Russia that the public does not know about, even if it was simply a bluff to provoke Putin to move first to pre-empt any threat or attack to Russia and Russia's interests. Which could then be held against him.

Which is exactly what is happening.

He has said that the greatest disaster of the last 100 years was not WWI or WWII it was the fall of the USSR and Putin wants the old glory he once saw with the old satellite countries back. He is getting old too, so who knows what he wants as his legacy, but he has seriously underestimated both Ukraine and the West.

His supply lines and troops at the border were not prepared to fight anything very long. He expected the people of Ukraine to just let him march in, maybe he even thought to cheers...

He expected the West to use useless sanctions of old like they did when he took Crimea, like when Biden was back in office too, so why any different? Well the sanctions are devastating and growing.

He is F'ed even though he will take Ukraine. His attack on Ukraine and threats to other countries including Sweden and Finland...lol, have basically given the west all the power they need to crush Russia economically and so how long will the Russian people in 2022, not 1980, put up with it all in a move that makes the sanctions on Iran look like a parking ticket?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Boadicea

Specifically nuclear war.

Okay. So you are saying that Russia can only defend itself and its people from nuclear war? All other threats are fair game on Russia?

There is a reason you don't have any "proof", so there is that.

And what, exactly, do you think that reason is? I think it's because all of our political critters and Big Media are dirty criminally corrupt lying liars that tell us only what they want us to know.

Russia was provoked to invade another nation and launch cruise missiles at there neighbour?

What a load of twaddle!

Okay.

Sounding like a Communist now Boadicea from the last century.

Oh dear lordy... I am very clearly expressing and advocating the fundamental principles of our Republic. Truth, justice and the American Way and all that. It's damn sad that you don't recognize them, but it explains much.

How the worm turns.

Indeed.

originally posted by: 0bserver1

Clearly it seems that their military logistics aren't working as we have seen operating by the US in Iraq but did not quietly go well in Afghanistan, every war seems to be different from the mentality of the opposing military or insurgency.

Logistics in Afghanistan was just fine as I spent over a year of my life there one way or another spread across a good 15 years or more. Being in the military 28 years I was able to see the evolution of our equipment from 1980 up through today, and it is crazy how good it has become in the last 20 years alone.

They have advances, but how good and how far along no one really knows. I remember back in the cold war that we found out afterwards that they typically could only maintain 10% or less of their nuclear capabilities as it was always in a state of repair, so who really knows how good or typically how bad their technology actually is. Watching what is unfolding in the Ukraine does not look good for the Russians, and we are talking 1 foot from the motherland not like America going all the way around the other side of the world to the Middle East...lol

Could you imagine running out of gas, food and supplies 100 miles into Mexico if we invaded them?

a reply to: Xtrozero

"it is crazy how good it has become in the last 20 years alone"


The next 20 is gonna make your head spin.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Boadicea

As to praying for the whole world.

Well its not the whole world causing all the kerfuffle at present, just Russia and Putin.

One might think you are suggesting I only pray for Russia and Putin... no, thank you.

The whole world is being impacted by what is going on in Ukraine at the moment, and a large part of this world had their grubby paws all over what brought us to this point. Whatever happens, we will ALL suffer the consequences.

Damn right I'm praying for the whole world!

a reply to: Boadicea

Why would i recognise "Truth, justice and the American Way"?

Anyroad is that not Super-Man?

Im not American.

A lot of people are other nationalities you see and the world somewhat larger than your 50 states.

I know its rather hard to get your head around that fact, but its true you see.

Anyroad good luck with your newfound communist way of thinking, your about a century to late but never mind.

a reply to: Boadicea

"Okay. So you are saying that Russia can only defend itself and its people from nuclear war? All other threats are fair game on Russia"


russia is the only one threatening nuclear war.

And russia is NOT defending itself from anything other than russia's fake propaganda.



There were no nukes aimed at russia.

There was nobody attacking russia.

There are no U.S. bio weapon labs in Ukraine

And Ukraine is not overrun with nazis.



russia is NOT defending, they are attacking another country that posed zero threat to russia, in order to steal land and resources from that country.

a reply to: Boadicea

Its all one to me and your anthropomorphized invisible men in the sky.

Pray in one paw Boadicea, crap in the other, see which one fills up first.

The whole world is being impacted because of Putin's wet dream to take his nation back to its former glory.

And thats just not on the cards, simple as that really.

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: Xtrozero

"it is crazy how good it has become in the last 20 years alone"


The next 20 is gonna make your head spin.

Sir?

The Amazon guy needs a signature to drop the 100,000 gallons of Mogas here ...

Cheers

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

The next 20 is gonna make your head spin.

My work is in the cutting edge of drones...I kind of know already.

Cheers

originally posted by: Xtrozero

So are you suggesting the West was using Ukraine to launch an unprovoked attack against the mother land sometime in the future?

I am stating that everyone has an absolute inalienable Natural right granted by our Creator to protect and defend themselves. I am stating that the west has in fact and indeed broken promises and guarantees to Russia, including weapons of war on their border. And I am stating that we do not know what further threats Russia may be aware of that we are not.

I am suggesting that further direct threats upon Russia itself and Russia's people may have been made... which may only have been bluffs, but very provocative, and prompted Russia's response by design.

Do Russians feel threaten by Ukraine, a country you could smash like a bug if so desired?

Russia apparently feels threatened by Ukraine AND other nations/NATO acting in and "for" Ukraine. (Although, I don't believe for a minute that NATO or any other nation meddling there is doing so for the benefit of Ukraine or its people. Just themselves and their own selfish interests).

He has said that the greatest disaster of the last 100 years was not WWI or WWII it was the fall of the USSR and Putin wants the old glory he once saw with the old satellite countries back.

Okay.

He is getting old too, so who knows what he wants as his legacy, but he has seriously underestimated both Ukraine and the West.

It may not be Putin seriously "underestimating" Ukraine and the rest... it may be us.

His supply lines and troops at the border were not prepared to fight anything very long. He expected the people of Ukraine to just let him march in, maybe he even thought to cheers...

He expected the West to use useless sanctions of old like they did when he took Crimea, like when Biden was back in office too, so why any different? Well the sanctions are devastating and growing.

He is F'ed even though he will take Ukraine. His attack on Ukraine and threats to other countries including Sweden and Finland...lol, have basically given the west all the power they need to crush Russia economically and so how long will the Russian people in 2022, not 1980, put up with it all in a move that makes the sanctions on Iran look like a parking ticket?

You make my point for me -- although, I am not so sure Putin will "take" Ukraine. I still hope/pray/think that proper negotiations and agreements can bring us back to a point of sanity.

But the totality of circumstances as we know them, including the obvious problems inherent in Putin's invasion, indicates that Putin is not acting from a position of strength or power, and that he would only make enemies by doing so. He knew that going in. So there must be another reason for him to do so.

Again, based upon the totality of circumstances as we know them, we cannot rule out the Putin believed there was a threat to Russia and Russian people (including Russian-supporting people in Ukraine).

I agree that Putin's age, and therefore potential cognitive decline, could be a HUGE part of this, especially in terms of irrational and unreasonable paranoia. Putin may be making a mountain out of a molehill.

a reply to: andy06shake

I'm not surprised that you keep putting words in my mouth and mischaracterizing my position.

It just confirms that your beliefs and opinions about Russia are just as sketchy.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: andy06shake

I'm not surprised that you keep putting words in my mouth and mischaracterizing my position.

It just confirms that your beliefs and opinions about Russia are just as sketchy.

"Okay. So you are saying that Russia can only defend itself and its people from nuclear war? All other threats are fair game on Russia"


YOU put these 'words in your mouth' all by yourself.

NOBODY else.

And still refuse to explain what Russia is defending itself from, other than russia's own propaganda lies.

a reply to: RussianTroll

Putin. Humanitarian of the year.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Boadicea

Why would i recognise "Truth, justice and the American Way"?

Im not American.

A lot of people are other nationalities you see and the world somewhat larger than your 50 states.

I know its rather hard to get your head around that fact, but its true you see.

Anyroad good luck with your newfound communist way of thinking, your about a century to late but never mind.

Hmmmm... simple logic and reason says that if you cannot recognize American values because you're not American, but you do seem to recognize Communist values...

Interesting but whatever. I don't have much use for labels. "A rose by any other name..." and all that rot. People are far too complex and diverse for labels to have any real practical or honest value. I'll stick with basic principles and leave the name calling out of it.