Ukraine against its own citizens

Many moons ago back in time, glorious USSR days, Leonid Brezhnev once said»»»

In Ukraine republic, there are more arms per civilian than per military...

My only response to this thread, is that I am fairly certain Russia will achieve it's goals, albeit at a very high price in blood. But it will be successful.

Some of you folks are just way too emotionally invested in this however considering most of you are sitting in the USA, Canada or Britain.

Get out and enjoy some time in the real regular world. There will be no nuclear war, Russia will succeed, Ukraine will not even come close to looking the way Iraq, Syria, Libya or Yemen still does today when it is all said and done, so take solace in that.

Call me a shill, a propogandist, a Putin puppet, apologist, enabler or whatever you feel like. Words on a screen from irrelevant Internet people have not been too successful in initiating a primitive emotional response from me.

But this much is true, the Russian military is being significantly more civil to the populations of Ukraine than NATO's member states, or their Gulf Cooperation Council allies, have ever been to the populations of the above four nations listed. Yea sure, it's war. Folks die, get used as human shields, sometimes lose power and find it hard to travel.

But the wreckless indifference I saw perpetuated over the course of the last twenty years on the cities and lands of those four nations are the things nightmares are made of. And untold millions were forced to live through those nightmares.

It is a regional conflict as far as I am concerned, and the corporate oligarchs and autocrats of the globalist powers are the real enemies in my book. Always have been, always will be. I wish the people and soldiers of both the Ukraine and Russia the best of luck. They all have lives to live and jobs to do. All of them.

May the globalist elites burn in hell.

a reply to: worldstarcountry

Well said, it's nice to see a voice of reason on this topic. Too many posters are suitably primed by the media and some with agendas seek to subvert threads that go against the Western narrative.

originally posted by: MConnalley


those "Ukrainians" that they are killing are folks at war with them don't be so naive to believe your own propaganda.

This exactly. There are clear distinctions -- even in war -- between fighting military forces and attacking civilians. As soon as civilians take up arms and join the fight, they are soldiers... not civilians.

I cannot and will not fault anyone for protecting and defending themselves, but these distinctions need to be made, because these are the long-standing and established accepted rules of engagement.

originally posted by: MetalChickAmy
Zelensky is just as bad, he's willing to use his own citizens as human shields,

That's a great way of spinning the fact he's standing firm with his own people, rather than running away to safety. While that little bitch Putin sits in a bunker thousands of miles away from the violence he has unleashed.

Do you hear his own people accusing Zelensky of this? Or are the proud of the fact their elected leader is sacrificing everything for his country?

originally posted by: MetalChickAmy
The more this war goes on, the more apparent that Putin is not the only madman. Zelensky is just as bad, he's willing to use his own citizens as human shields, and he's desperately trying to drag NATO into a shooting war with Russia that he knows will likely turn nuclear if they tangle. This is insanity. I sympathise with the Ukrannian people, because they, like all the other innocent civilians in war torn nations, are pawns in a twisted game between megalomaniacs around the world.

I'm still trying to figure out if Putin and/or Zelensky is truly mad... but I agree that Zelensky is just as bad as Putin in many ways. Perhaps worse in some ways.

But in terms of what is motivating Zelensky, after learning yesterday that Zelensky's net worth has increased from $1.5 million in 2019 (when he was elected), to $705 million today, I suspect Zelensky is being paid very well to escalate and provoke more war. I have nothing to back it up beyond raw numbers. That is only my suspicion or speculation, but it makes more sense than anything else.

Zelensky needs to be careful what he wishes for. Even if NATO and other western nations help him "defeat" Russia, his glory will be short-lived, because the west will then do what it does, and rape and plunder their nation for everything they've got -- particularly oil and mineral rights.

originally posted by: Boadicea
fter learning yesterday that Zelensky's net worth has increased from $1.5 million in 2019 (when he was elected), to $705 million today

Evidence?

a reply to: FatherLukeDuke

Is your google broken?

Prove me wrong.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: FatherLukeDuke

Is your google broken?

So, no evidence then.

Prove me wrong.

You want me to prove a negative? You make the claim, the burden of evidence is on you.

a reply to: andy06shake

Are you sophisticated enough to understand that your perceptions of Russia and Putin have been formed by decades of virulent propaganda delivered by mainstream media? It seems unlikely.

Have you ever watched "The Untold History of the United States" by Oliver Stone? Likely not.

Your perceptions have been formed by endless propaganda. Here's how Edward Bernays put it nearly a century ago:

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of."

Take it to heart sir. The same thing happens in the UK.

a reply to: FatherLukeDuke

So, no evidence then.

Either too damn lazy to do your own due diligence, or you just want to attack the messenger.

So tell me, if it is true, would you have a problem with it? Any suspicions? Any concerns? Since you want "proof" it seems that it does. That even you realize that $700 million attained by a public servant is rather suspicious. At the least. Do you not want to know for yourself, one way or another?

You want me to prove a negative? You make the claim, the burden of evidence is on you.

Technically, no. You need only "prove" what Zelensky's actual net worth is. Either it's the $705 million I quoted or not. If it's not, then you've proven me wrong. Easy peasy... right?

Here is the original link I read: Volodymyr Zelensky Net Worth Explored as Ukraine Prepares to Defend its Territory

When I did a search (DuckDuckGo) for "Zelensky Net Worth $705 million, I found a several more sources, citing Zelensky's most recent financial filings, including these:

From Hollywood Magazine: Ukrainian President Volodymur Zelensky net worth, wiki, wife, kids

Here is another link from SitesView: Volodymyr Zelensky Net Worth 2022 | President of Ukraine

Not surprisingly, the results I received yesterday have already changed today. I know because I clicked on the first half dozen links, and only the two above were still listed (and showed I had clicked on them yesterday.) I expect that this will be blowing up in the media and on discussion boards in the very near future...

a reply to: FatherLukeDuke

You want me to prove a negative? You make the claim, the burden of evidence is on you.

And just a friendly piece of advice... if YOU want the TRUTH, then the burden of finding the facts is on YOU. Are you going to accept my links just because? Of course not! And nor should you.

Don't trust me, don't trust Big Media, don't trust anyone. Do your own damn due diligence!!!

IF you actually want the truth...

a reply to: Salander

Am i sophisticated enough?

Naw pal common as muck me.

As to understanding well I'm old enough to remember the cold war era and the feelings that surrounded such times.

Living with the constant threat of annihilation kind of puts an edge on things to say the least.

Freedom and security may very well be illusory concepts at best in the M.A.D world in which we live, but none the less a requirement for the majority of people to get by.

As to who we are governed by, well i dont know about you but where i hail from that would be a fleet of ineffective cock wombles with Boris at the helm.

My perceptions are my own Slander, after all its a very personal experience, life the universe and everything.

a reply to: RussianTroll

I'm going to have to say " # Off" to anyone in the mSM or our government who says we have to back Ukraine in this.
I hate Putin but this Zellinsky is a POS himself. So are all the WEF. It's a turf war, a gang fight. let them settle it themselves and anything Putin does to screw the WEF over is welcome.
But # Biden and those that are using this as an excuse to gouge the american people over and to ruin us economically.

a reply to: andy06shake

Yes, most of us live believing all manner of falsehoods and illusions.

IMO, once one understands that, it's much easier to find the truth wherever it may lie.

Russians are just like other humans--they would rather live in peace than in war. But they realize there are forces for evil in this world, and sadly those forces seem to reside in the West.

a reply to: Salander

"Yes, most of us live believing all manner of falsehoods and illusions."

80% of the people on this world still choose to place there belief in some form of organised religious practice so your not far wrong.

"IMO, once one understands that, it's much easier to find the truth wherever it may lie."

One mans truth can be another mans lie depending on perspective Salander.

"Russians are just like other humans--they would rather live in peace than in war."

Really. LoL

And when has ther ever been peace in our time pray-tell?

Putin's not exactly like other Russians through and as to war well he's the one invading his neighbours and killing indiscriminately with cruise missile strikes and artillery barrages that's a fact.

"But they realize there are forces for evil in this world, and sadly those forces seem to reside in the West."

I don't give much of a rats arse as to what they realise or otherwise, as long as they get there muppet leaders under control and stop threatening the use of nuclear missiles.

Now the Ukrainians, that's another matter, they are not going to forgive or forget, that's a given.

I want a (peace summit) Healing of planet Earth and it's people. No war, no destruction, no violence. The people are in shock and trauma; they had jobs and homes and a life they thought was ok; the children...they did nothing wrong why make them suffer?

So many innocent bystanders...those people are a street now...not by their choice.