Ukraine against its own citizens

a reply to: OccamsRazor04


"FK around and find out"

Putin is now all time global champion.

originally posted by: RussianTroll
but I do not understand your attitude towards my country and my president.

Probably the same attitude all the Russian protesters have, thousands being arrested in a day. Same attitude that caused so many journalist to flee Russia because reporting truth is now a crime.

a reply to: Boadicea


Do those basic principles include invading a large European country over one's own intentionally created fake propaganda?


You need some new 'basic principles' then.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Could you imagine running out of gas, food and supplies 100 miles into Mexico if we invaded them?

That really is a stupid way to go , having a fourty mile convoy running out of gasoline.

But what commander would send such a convoy that large picking only one road to go by ?

Sanctions sure can be effective if you have to spend twenty billion a day to maintain that war .

I think I meant not the logistics in Afghanistan but the difficulty to fight a people in the mountains, I know that NATO's intelligence and logistics are much better as we have seen so far from Putin

originally posted by: Boadicea

I am stating that everyone has an absolute inalienable Natural right granted by our Creator to protect and defend themselves. I am stating that the west has in fact and indeed broken promises and guarantees to Russia, including weapons of war on their border. And I am stating that we do not know what further threats Russia may be aware of that we are not.

All sides posture for positioning, Russia is right up there in the top 5. All that changes when real war breaks out and Russia did the BIG no no...

Russia, just like Iran, just like NK would not have any enemies coming to get them if they did not create a reason in the first place... No one wants to invade Russia, no one... Well maybe China one day, but get real... the EU just wants it's energy. The reason is if someone did invade then what...lol not an easy question to answer unless it is a country you plan of adding to the motherland.

Look at the US...invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, then what? It a question we could not answer since we were not willing to do the "then what" needed to be 100% successful. No one other than China has a "then what" for Russia.

I am suggesting that further direct threats upon Russia itself and Russia's people may have been made... which may only have been bluffs, but very provocative, and prompted Russia's response by design.

Well ZERO and I mean ZERO was a threat of war, and pretty much still is. Russia will take Ukraine 100% with no war from anyone else, so what other threat was there when everyone wants them to be somewhat good and buy their energy.

It may not be Putin seriously "underestimating" Ukraine and the rest... it may be us.

He can not win a war even launching nukes, everyone loses then, but he has zero chance of winning a real war.

But the totality of circumstances as we know them, including the obvious problems inherent in Putin's invasion, indicates that Putin is not acting from a position of strength or power, and that he would only make enemies by doing so. He knew that going in. So there must be another reason for him to do so.

You seems to not accept that he most likely miscalculated the responses from both Ukraine and the west. Why does he want Ukraine? Because it has vast energy and mineral resources that Russia once had, same reason USSR wanted Afghanistan. He took Crimea because of the location of his navel fleet foot print that he has there, nothing more or less.

Again, based upon the totality of circumstances as we know them, we cannot rule out the Putin believed there was a threat to Russia and Russian people (including Russian-supporting people in Ukraine).

I agree that Putin's age, and therefore potential cognitive decline, could be a HUGE part of this, especially in terms of irrational and unreasonable paranoia. Putin may be making a mountain out of a molehill.

I really do not think Putin sees Ukraine as a threat, it is not in his nature to do so. I don't think he is in cognitive decline to cause this, BUT I do think he still thinks like he did 30+ years ago and has failed to evolve with the world into 2022 and that is why he has seriously miscalculated.

a reply to: 0bserver1


Russia was intentionally suckered into using that route.

It was always a trap.

Near perfect geology for such a trap.

russia thought we were bluffing about Javelins in the hills, and didn't expect Ukraine to commit more than half it's professional army to close off the southern end of that trap while russia was attacking all over Ukraine.

originally posted by: 0bserver1

I think I meant not the logistics in Afghanistan but the difficulty to fight a people in the mountains, I know that NATO's intelligence and logistics are much better as we have seen so far from Putin

The problem with America's fighting machine is we are unwilling to do what would of been necessary to totally change Afghanistan. That part is ugly as in kill every male over the age of 12 type ugly and then create schools to reconstruct the population over the next 20 years with the young learning a different way. We never should have gone into Afghanistan since we had no plan afterwards that we would be willing to do.

a reply to: Xtrozero
But Afghanistan was a completely different war as we see now from our point of view, essentially its the same war for Putin as NATO did in Afghanistan to stop terrorism as what Putin thinks he's doing at this moment.

But I don't really believe that story.
I don't think it's possible from the perspective what is happening now to so called liberate Ukraine from terrorism or nazism whatever to call this madness.

What I do think is that it's a very difficult war because many are Russian from origin and they are essentially fighting themselves so this also will give very disturbing situations hitting friendlies and it sure will be used as countermeasure to act as friendly?

a reply to: Boadicea

Im just me Boadicea, nothing more nothing less.

Simple logic dictates that a nation that invades and occupies the other is the aggressor, so there is that.

Its not me that's got a problem with communism as its simply an ideology and form of control same as democracy.

You on the other hand, you would boil them in oil would you not?

Certainly not the most preferable form of governance, communism that is.

As to American values, which ones in particular do you mean, and be specific if you can manage such?

See those values which you seem to hold so dear to your heart probably came from somewhere else originally, just like the majority of the people and families in the USA , given that your nation is only 244 years old.

Labels are important Boadicea, especially when we take them away or remove the warning ones.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

I'm beginning to think its a spade he/she is after with the size of that big hole.

a reply to: RussianTroll

Not all Russians are buying the bollocks peddled by Putin.

Protests have taken place in 53 Russian cities with over 10,000 people arrested.
www.bbc.co.uk...

a reply to: andy06shake

Oh no! Not the heckin' snackerinos! I'm on board now we should genocide the whole Russian people. Did you see that sausage? Looked delicious they barely ate any of it! WIld flippin' animals! The whole lot of them! They deserve to be gassed. Odd they would leave their insignia behind? Glad it proves it all though! Thank God they slipped up.

Oh !!! Remember the chocolate bars! They ate them all. That's basically stealing candy from a baby! in 2022! I'm so freaking angry! That I need to call my therapist now! You should have put a warning on that video of the inhuman barbaric things. Oh and just wait until some right wing zealot brings up the riots here in America in 2020. My god I am going to BUST!

a reply to: FisheatsFish

Keep watching they steal more than chocolate.

Obviously did not watch till the end. LoL

What they don't deserve to be doing is pillaging.

That's other peoples property and money not theirs or Putin's.

And if you cannot understand that stealing is wrong then your mum and dad should have brought you up better.

Simple as that really.

a reply to: Freeborn

Not to mention journalist fleeing.

a reply to: FisheatsFish


Do you have any friends that can translate that mess into English?

Looks interesting, but I have no idea what any of it was supposed to mean.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u



Well if he/she don't understand simple concepts like right from wrong.

Or that grand larceny and bank robbing is against the law.

Then English might be a bit of a stretch.

a reply to: andy06shake

They ate snacks and that's not bad so all the destroying cities, killing civilians, and theft should be ignored.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Well theft is theft OccamsRazor04.

But what about the safes and ATM?

Where im from that's about 5 years for robbing a ATM, more like 10 if you are armed or have any sorts of pervious.

But your correct its nowhere near as bad as destroying their cities, or killing innocent civilians via cruise missile strikes and cluster munitions.

It's down right pathetic really and shameful.

a reply to: Xtrozero

All sides posture for positioning, Russia is right up there in the top 5.

Of course!!!

All that changes when real war breaks out and Russia did the BIG no no...

Apparently for some... and only in select circumstances. There's a whole lot of hand wringing over Russia doing the same or similar to what we've done in the past.

Russia, just like Iran, just like NK would not have any enemies coming to get them if they did not create a reason in the first place...

Please. They need only stand in someone's way of their own self-serving purposes and they become the "enemy." For example, if another power wants to cut them out of the oil business for their own profit and gain, then Russia easily becomes the "enemy" and vice versa.

No one wants to invade Russia, no one...

Agreed -- not that we know of. But literal invasion is not the only possible threat.

Look at the US...invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, then what? It a question we could not answer since we were not willing to do the "then what" needed to be 100% successful.

Exactly... we've done our own invading of sovereign nations, killed lots of innocent people, and wreaked chaos and destruction plenty of times. No one's hands are clean. But I sure didn't see the same folks condemning Russia now condemning the US then. And I still don't.

The fact is that everyone knew that Putin is an ultra Nationalist KGB thug, and that he's ruthless and cutthroat in his politics. Always has been and always will be. But they still poked the bear, crossed his very clear red lines -- both overtly and covertly, and saber rattled to the end. (That's what we know. Heaven only knows what all we don't know.) And when push comes to shove, as they knew it would, they've got nothing except "Putin bad."

This was never going to end well for Putin. He does not seem to be at all up to the challenge of what he's attempting. He doesn't seem to have the properly trained manpower, the properly maintained equipment, nor a properly prepared and executed plan of action. That leads me to one of two best guesses: This was either a last minute act of desperation born of paranoia... or Putin had good reason to think something much worse would happen and this was a desperate act of self-defense. And that "good reason" may have been real to Putin, but only a bluff to provoke him.

got shovels, then DIG . . . . ⚔️


Russia–Ukraine gas disputes