Why are atheist so angry with God?

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: dandandat2

As an Atheist I can fully understand why my God wants people to be good.

From the discussions taking place here, I think we're confusing the term "atheist" because atheists don't believe that any God exists, so I'm assuming that you consider yourself (as well as others here) as being Agnostic? Believing in a God that hasn't been defined by the Bible or any text?

Maybe that's why the OP titled his thread the way he did. I think he believes that everyone really knows there's a God, but they choose to reject the one defined by the Bible.

No, I am an Atheist; not an agnostic. But I do agree that the terms do need proper definition or can be confused with each other.

Atheism:

a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods

Link

Agnostic:

a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable

link

Atheism (and theism) is an issue of belief; a belief that god does or does not exist.

Agnostic is an issue of knowledge; lack of knowledge that god exists.

I have no intrinsic or physical knowlage that god exists (or doesn't exist). It may exist or It may not; I have no great knowledge that proves eather is true. God very well may exist.

But I do not possess a belief that god exists. I have no belief based incentive or feeling inside that God is there and that It knows or cares about humans.

a reply to: daskakik

No you didn't explain away the inconsistency because the "why" is because god says he doesn't want sinners in heaven. It was why satan was cast from heaven, before humans were created and ends up in the garden but for some strange reason in job he is allowed to enter.

The Bible refers to heaven or heavens in different ways. What we call the "universe" is described as the heavens in the Bible. There's even mention of a 'third heaven" in 2 Corinthians 12. The angels aren't limited to the holy realm of heaven and there's nothing to suggest that Satan met with God and other angels in a holy place.

a reply to: Deetermined
But he met with god, that is why I said it wasn't the where.

So if satan falls out of grace with god before man was created he seems to have worked his way back into it by the time of Job but you said "there is no reconciliation plan of forgiveness" for angels.

The inconsistency is still there.

a reply to: dandandat2

Atheism (and theism) is an issue of belief; a belief that god does or does not exist.

That statement contradicts your link. Your link explicitly says that it's a belief that God DOES NOT exist, not that God does or does not exist.

You threw me off with your original statement that you understood why your god would want people to be good, when you said, "my God". So, thanks for clarifying that.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Deetermined

But he met with god, that is why I said it wasn't the where.

So if satan falls out of grace with god before man was created he seems to have worked his way back into it by the time of Job but you said "there is no reconciliation plan of forgiveness" for angels.

The inconsistency is still there.

Can you possibly speak in any more circles than you already have?

Just because Satan has fallen out of grace with God doesn't mean that God has judged and banned him to the Abyss or the Lake of Fire yet. He's still free to roam the earth and the heavenly realms right above the earth. That doesn't mean that he gets to enter into holy places or will be forgiven for all of the acts of evil he has committed. God is obviously allowing Satan to do what he will until he removes him completely and that time hasn't come yet.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: dandandat2

Atheism (and theism) is an issue of belief; a belief that god does or does not exist.

That statement contradicts your link. Your link explicitly says that it's a belief that God DOES NOT exist, not that God does or does not exist.

You threw me off with your original statement that you understood why your god would want people to be good, when you said, "my God". So, thanks for clarifying that.

No; it defines an atheist as "a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods."

It was my text that was combining the concepts of Theism and Atheism together in the correct terms of "belief". A Theists believes in the existence of god and an Atheist does not believe in the existence of a god; per the linked definition.

I can see why my statment of "my god" would be confusing; my apologies. I was attempting to answer the OP question within the construct the question created. In order to be angry at something it has to exist in physical or in thought. So to answer 'why I, as an Atheist, am angry angry with god' I had to first accept, for the sake of argument, that god existed before I could explain why I might be angry with It.

originally posted by: Deetermined
God is obviously allowing Satan to do what he will until he removes him completely and that time hasn't come yet.

That was my point. He will even meet with him and offer someone to torment.

In regards to your post to dandandat2, the theism in parenthesis is what he is referring to when he says "belief that god does" exist.

a reply to: neoholographic

I would urge you not to care about the salvation of those who chose to not believe in God, or an entity of a higher power. It really shouldn't matter to you. People will choose their own path, and I give them props for doing so. I believe in a higher being. I'm not certain how that being is defined. I am comfortable with calling it/them (remember Genesis) God. No harm in doing so, right? I think that humans are in a zone where they can believe and pray and worship as they choose, or they can not, as they choose. I think that the creature(s) who look down upon us, who started us, understand where our hearts and our minds are at.

I can't help feeling that it/they won't condemn us to a fiery pit of hell for not believing in them.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
... Faith is very simple in nature that really needs zero support from anything. ...

What you are describing is called "blind faith", or in some cases "credulity" (willingness to believe or trust too readily, especially without proper or adequate evidence; gullibility). That is not the type of faith encouraged in the Bible.

“Faith is a negation of reason,” writes British philosopher A. C. Grayling. His words sum up the feelings of countless writers and philosophers who over the centuries have claimed that faith and reason are incompatible.

Some religious beliefs do fly in the face of all reason. But consider this: Many strongly held scientific beliefs have proved to be wrong. Does that mean that all scientific beliefs are wrong or are not based on reason? Why view religious beliefs any differently? In fact, the faith described in the Bible does not exist without knowledge but is, instead, solidly based on knowledge and sound reason. As you review the evidence, see how true faith and reason are compatible.

Faith Firmly Based on Reason

The Bible says, for example, that if your worship is to be “acceptable to God,” it must be “a sacred service with your power of reason.” In other words, you must worship God “in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.” (Romans 12:1; The Jerusalem Bible) So the faith described in the Bible is not something blind and irrational, or a leap of faith, as some have called it. And it is not credulity. Rather, it is something you have thought through carefully​—resulting in trust in God and his Word, which is firmly based on reason.

Of course, if you are to reason properly, you need accurate information. Even the most powerful computer programs designed on solid principles of logic will come up with some very strange conclusions if they are fed inaccurate data. Likewise, the quality of your faith will depend greatly on what you hear or on how dependable the information you feed your mind proves to be. Appropriately, the Bible says that “faith follows the thing heard.”​—Romans 10:17.

A fundamental requirement for faith is “an accurate knowledge of truth.” (1 Timothy 2:4) Only “the truth,” says the Bible, “will set you free,” free from misleading beliefs, whether they are scientific or religious. (John 8:32) The Bible warns you not to put faith “in every word.” (Proverbs 14:15) Rather, it says that you should “make sure of all things”​—or test out the things you hear before believing them. (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Why should you do research and test out your beliefs? Because faith based on falsehood is only a delusion. Some noble-minded people from the ancient city of Beroea set a fine example in acquiring proper faith. Even though these individuals really wanted to believe what Christian missionaries taught them, they made a point of “carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.”​—Acts 17:11.

Building Faith in the Bible

What, though, if you are unsure of the reliability of the Bible? How can you build your confidence in it as a source of accurate knowledge? Well, how do you build your confidence in people? Surely, it is by getting to know them​—by watching how they behave over a period of time and seeing how their conduct turns out. Why not do the same with the Bible?

The Bible describes true faith as “the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.” (Hebrews 11:1) Clearly, far from being naive, a person with real faith has based his beliefs on a careful scrutiny of all available data. Reasoning on such information produces the conviction that even things that cannot be seen with the literal eye are, nonetheless, realities.

What, though, if what you learn seems to contradict some of your deeply held beliefs? Should you just ignore it? Of course not. There may well be times when it is eminently reasonable to consider powerful evidence that appears to contradict what you believe. In the Bible, God promises to reward sincere individuals who search for truth by granting them knowledge, discernment, and thinking ability.​—Proverbs 2:1-12.

The kind of faith built on what the Bible teaches is compatible with reason. What kind of faith do you have? Many people have “inherited” their religious beliefs and have never seriously examined them in the light of reason. Yet, it is not a sign of disrespect to examine what you believe so as to ‘prove to yourself’ that your thinking is in harmony with God’s Word. (Romans 12:2) The Bible admonishes us to “test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God.” (1 John 4:1) If you do that, you will be in a position, even when your beliefs are challenged, to “make a defense before everyone that demands of you a reason for the hope in you.”​—1 Peter 3:15.

a reply to: daskakik

That was my point. He will even meet with him and offer someone to torment.

Why do you think God gave us free will too? Did you think he wasn't going to allow anyone to test it?

Are you not familiar with all of the people in the Bible who were close to God, yet still committed terrible acts of sin? God forgave them because they were human and asked for forgiveness after understanding the error of their ways. God doesn't reject humans because they sin. He only rejects people who reject him first.

a reply to: argentus

I can't help feeling that it/they won't condemn us to a fiery pit of hell for not believing in them.

Why not? If that fiery pit of condemnation gives them the non existence
they thought was coming anyway? See that's the mercy of God. Even the
atheist gets just what he expected. The fire is the second death for those
who refused the easiest way God could provide our redemption. I can see
Gods side in all of it.

a reply to: Deetermined
My point isn't about humans, it is about the bible saying god can't stand sin and also saying he partnered with the greatest sinner ever.

That is the contradiction.

I honestly don't understand why you can't grasp such a simple concept.

a reply to: Randyvine2
Burning for eternity isn't exactly non existence.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
... The bible barely mentions the Hittites, one of the most powerful Bronze and early Iron Age powers in the Middle East, which is odd, ...

That's so ironic, cause for a long time secular historians and bible critics claimed that the Hittites were a "fictitious" people (quoting an older edition of the Encyclopædia Britannica), because the Bible was the only ancient document that mentioned them. Using the fact that no archaeological or extrabiblical evidence for the existence of the Hittites had been found yet as an argument to criticize the Bible as being "fictitious" and inaccurate when it comes to history (an argument from ignorance).

“One of the striking confirmations of Bible history to come from the science of archaeology,” says John Elder in Prophets, Idols and Diggers, “is the ‘recovery’ of the Hittite peoples and their empires. Here is a people whose name appears again and again in the Old Testament, but who in secular history had been completely forgotten and whose very existence was considered to be extremely doubtful.

“It remained to Dr. A. H. Sayce, the Assyriologist, and Dr. William Wright, . . . to recover the first actual remains of the Hittites. In time these were found throughout western Asia Minor and modern Turkey. Sayce recorded the story of his finds in the book The Hittites, Story of a Forgotten Empire. In 1906, Dr. Hugo Winckler, excavating at Hoghos-Keui on the Halys River ninety miles east of Ankara, discovered the former capital and a treasure trove of inscriptions on clay tablets in cuneiform script and written in the Babylonian and Hittite languages. It took some time to decipher the Hittite tongue, but it was accomplished. . . .”

The discovery of the Hittite civilization remains one of the prime examples of the Bible being vindicated by archaeology against the criticism of secular historians and bible critics who embarassed themselves yet again (conveniently changing their argument after the archaeological discoveries).

In the nineteenth century, hard on the heels of Darwin’s revival of the Greek evolution theory, some German professors and clergymen launched a critical attack against the reliability of the Scriptures. As the storm of criticism raged against the Bible a startling voice began to speak in its defense. Archaeologists digging in Egypt, Palestine and Mesopotamia began to unearth exciting proof of the Bible’s truthfulness. Biblical cities, kings and nations suddenly came to life through discovery of clay tablets, pottery, statues, inscriptions and long-buried ruins. The Hittites and Canaanites had actually existed! (Ex. 3:8) Assyrian and Babylonian documents vouched for many of the people named at Genesis 10:1-32. Fierce Sennacherib and other kings were proved factual. Jericho’s walls were found, not to have decayed, but to have been knocked down by a great force; the city’s foodstuffs obviously had been burned, just as Jehovah had commanded Joshua. Even King Solomon’s stables were found at Megiddo. Archaeologists began to write books about archaeology and the Bible.—Isa. 36:1; Josh. 6:17, 24; 1 Ki. 4:26.

“The effect of these discoveries,” wrote Sir Charles Marston in The Bible Comes Alive, “is to further discredit the whole process of destructive criticism. Archaeology, a strictly objective science, is disproving the subjective negations spun from the mentality of critics. Those who have shaken popular faith in the Bible, and undermined its authority, are in turn undermined themselves by the evidence that has been brought to light, and their authority destroyed. The spade is driving destructive criticism out of the field of questionable facts into that of recognized fiction. And it is pretty certain that the process will continue.”

While archaeology vindicated the Bible, it did nothing for Darwin’s theory of evolution. In fact, evolution’s notion that early man could not write was flatly contradicted by discovery of what are considered pre-Flood inscribed tablets. Also, geologists and paleontologists were amazed to find that their most authentic acquisitions fully agreed with the Bible account of creation. To this day, evolution has been unable to prove its premise, and much of Darwin’s theory has been abandoned. What remains is a science-fiction faith that asserts what cannot be demonstrated by any field of science.

Evolution—Myths and Facts (article)

Darwin VS Design Molecular Machines (playlist)

The Pagan Religious Roots of Evolutionary Philosophies and Philosophical Naturalism (part 1 of 2)

originally posted by: daskakik
...
You see, I'm not trolling, it's just that I have had experiences that made me question the story in the bible. Allowed my to notice inconsistencies in the plot.

And yet the supposed inconsistencies you point out and the acompanying argumentation I've heard dozens of times from different people. Surely you are not implying you are the originator of these arguments and talking points?

Would it not be more accurate to say that these supposed inconsitencies were pointed out to you? Just like Kreeate's list I responded to earlier? Which is also a fairly standardized list repeated ad nauseam by Bible critics without any critical analysis (especially when it comes to verifying whether or not the bible texts referenced are accurately and failry represented, and not spun to paint the picture painted there in Kreeate's comment, or copy-paste).

originally posted by: GoShredAK
...
This includes many many trials and tribulations and it's meant to be that way.....

I trust God even when things look dismall....

Just remember:

When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed* [Or “caught as by bait.”] by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile,* [Lit., “has conceived.”] gives birth to sin; in turn sin, when it has been carried out, brings forth death. (James 1:13-15)

Humans were not meant to be slaves to sin and their fleshly desires. And God has provided a way out, a path to true freedom from the inherited* slavery to sin and (fleshly) desire. (*: inherited from Adam because of Adam's actions, not God's, see Romans 5:12)

John 8:31-47:

31 Then Jesus went on to say to the Jews who had believed him: “If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” 33 They replied to him: “We are Abraham’s offspring* [Lit., “seed.”] and never have been slaves to anyone. How is it you say, ‘You will become free’?” 34 Jesus answered them: “Most truly I say to you, every doer of sin is a slave of sin. 35 Moreover, the slave does not remain in the household forever; the son remains forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be truly free. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s offspring. But you are seeking to kill me, because my word makes no progress among you. 38 I speak the things I have seen while with my Father, but you do the things you have heard from your father.” 39 In answer they said to him: “Our father is Abraham.” Jesus said to them: “If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works of Abraham. 40 But now you are seeking to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You are doing the works of your father.” They said to him: “We were not born from immorality; we have one Father, God.”

42 Jesus said to them: “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I have not come of my own initiative, but that One sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot listen to* [Or “accept.”] my word. 44 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie. 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell you the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Who of you convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it that you do not believe me? 47 The one who is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why you do not listen, because you are not from God.”

originally posted by: whereislogic
Would it not be more accurate to say that these supposed inconsitencies were pointed out to you?

No, because when I was in my teens and I decided to read the entire book from cover to cover, I had not heard of any inconsistencies. There was nobody I knew who wasn't christian. It was back in the 80's, so it wasn't like I was able to go on the internet and look up alternative interpretations of the bible, the highest tech I had at the time was an atari 2600. I noticed them as I read.

That was what planted the seed of doubt in my mind and it grew from there.

ETA: Just because more than a few people notice the contradictions, and they are shared (fairly standardized), it doesn't stop them from being contradictions.

originally posted by: whereislogic

originally posted by: GoShredAK
...
This includes many many trials and tribulations and it's meant to be that way.....

I trust God even when things look dismall....

Just remember:

When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed* [Or “caught as by bait.”] by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile,* [Lit., “has conceived.”] gives birth to sin; in turn sin, when it has been carried out, brings forth death. (James 1:13-15)

Humans were not meant to be slaves to sin and their fleshly desires. And God has provided a way out, a path to true freedom from the inherited* slavery to sin and (fleshly) desire. (*: inherited from Adam because of Adam's actions, not God's, see Romans 5:12)

John 8:31-47:

31 Then Jesus went on to say to the Jews who had believed him: “If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” 33 They replied to him: “We are Abraham’s offspring* [Lit., “seed.”] and never have been slaves to anyone. How is it you say, ‘You will become free’?” 34 Jesus answered them: “Most truly I say to you, every doer of sin is a slave of sin. 35 Moreover, the slave does not remain in the household forever; the son remains forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be truly free. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s offspring. But you are seeking to kill me, because my word makes no progress among you. 38 I speak the things I have seen while with my Father, but you do the things you have heard from your father.” 39 In answer they said to him: “Our father is Abraham.” Jesus said to them: “If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works of Abraham. 40 But now you are seeking to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You are doing the works of your father.” They said to him: “We were not born from immorality; we have one Father, God.”

42 Jesus said to them: “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I have not come of my own initiative, but that One sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot listen to* [Or “accept.”] my word. 44 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie. 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell you the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Who of you convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it that you do not believe me? 47 The one who is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why you do not listen, because you are not from God.”

Thank you.....

And I know He truly does make all things work for good and puts broken peices together more beautiful than before.

a reply to: daskakik

OK, fair enough, guess I'll just have to take your word for it then. Your whole notion of God partnering with Satan is not something that you can get from reading the Bible though, unless you've followed some masterclass of reading that into the text. Some religious teachers in Christendom (might) have done that, and may have given you that impression when you were still going to Church (if you ever did). I think it was also done in this thread by someone who thinks of him- or herself as a Christian. Of course, that's not helping.

“However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron.”(1 Timothy 4:1,2).

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: Wookiep
a reply to: daskakik

Cool story, and that's great with the old woman etc. But when you're sitting in the absence of God, (Anything and all things of God are good) in deep space, all by yourself, you will have no one to argue with but yourself.

Your conscience will understand your self-centered view of reality and you will only be able to argue with yourself. While you sit in space all alone, no light, no companions to argue with, only then you will understand what existence without God means.

When God allows a tiny point of light in the far distance of space, you will appreciate God more than you ever thought possible. We can't even know what "good" is, until we understand that evil exists. You can't appreciate any good thing without experiencing darkness first.

But you're a troll. You do nothing but argue. It's ALL you do on ATS. Always. So that's all I'm going to say to you.

Yup, this once again underlines why I'm an atheist. The anger and finger-pointing in the above is a bit scary. So, only your point of view is correct, right? No-one else is allowed to have another point of view?
Sanctimonious, self-righteous and angry.

There are laws in the universe. You can't simply avoid them because you disagree, or dislike them. Good luck.