Why are atheist so angry with God?

a reply to: Deetermined
I don't 'blame other people' for why I am an atheist. It was my informed decision to leave behind the myths of childhood and become an informed adult. It's the persistence of others loudly and angrily insisting that I am wrong that reminds me why I became an atheist. There's a clear difference there.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

In my opinion, that's just a way of saying that there are two reasons why you have chosen to be an athiest.

a reply to: Deetermined

And I respectfully disagree. I became an atheist because I did not believe in any deity any more. I did not become an atheist because of anyone else.

originally posted by: daskakik
...
In regards to your post to dandandat2, the theism in parenthesis is what he is referring to when he says "belief that god does" exist.

If you leave out the stuff about theism, you get:

Atheism ... is an issue of belief; a belief that god ... does not exist.

Which is how atheism used to be defined before some dictionaries* changed it in line with the desires of (so-called "new") atheists to shirk the burden of proof and deny that they have any beliefs (regarding the subject of God's existence or otherwise, since the concept of "belief" has become anathema to them because of their argumentation that 'belief/faith is always blind', as if that's the only kind, i.e. belief is never based on evidence and reason; implying that believing something always involves credulity, see my previous comment to Xtrozero if you don't know what that means). *: dictionary.com still defines it as: "Atheism is the belief that there is no supreme being or deity." (acknnowledging that it is a belief)

So you end up with a definition for "atheist", like the one from Merriam-Webster, that also counts for agnostics most of the times. An agnostic is often also "a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods". This is a statement you can also get from an agnostic:

I have no intrinsic or physical knowlage that god exists (or doesn't exist). It may exist or It may not; I have no great knowledge that proves eather is true. God very well may exist.

Actually, that way of thinking defines agnosticism better than atheism. Especially if you're not inclined to let the so-called "new atheists" get away with shirking the burden of proof for their beliefs and statements by re-defining the term "atheism" and denying that they have any beliefs at all (or just concerning God's existence). Being dishonest with themselves as well as others. Richard Dawkins' style. Who also loves to mislead people as to what it means to believe something, saying things like, 'I don't believe ..., I accept'. As if that makes a big difference regarding what he believes to be true (such as evolutionary philosophies involving the topic of common descent), just changing the verb.

originally posted by: whereislogic

originally posted by: Xtrozero
... Faith is very simple in nature that really needs zero support from anything. ...

What you are describing is called "blind faith", or in some cases "credulity" (willingness to believe or trust too readily, especially without proper or adequate evidence; gullibility). That is not the type of faith encouraged in the Bible.

“Faith is a negation of reason,” writes British philosopher A. C. Grayling. His words sum up the feelings of countless writers and philosophers who over the centuries have claimed that faith and reason are incompatible.

Some religious beliefs do fly in the face of all reason. But consider this: Many strongly held scientific beliefs have proved to be wrong. Does that mean that all scientific beliefs are wrong or are not based on reason? Why view religious beliefs any differently? In fact, the faith described in the Bible does not exist without knowledge but is, instead, solidly based on knowledge and sound reason. As you review the evidence, see how true faith and reason are compatible.

Faith Firmly Based on Reason

The Bible says, for example, that if your worship is to be “acceptable to God,” it must be “a sacred service with your power of reason.” In other words, you must worship God “in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.” (Romans 12:1; The Jerusalem Bible) So the faith described in the Bible is not something blind and irrational, or a leap of faith, as some have called it. And it is not credulity. Rather, it is something you have thought through carefully​—resulting in trust in God and his Word, which is firmly based on reason.

Of course, if you are to reason properly, you need accurate information. Even the most powerful computer programs designed on solid principles of logic will come up with some very strange conclusions if they are fed inaccurate data. Likewise, the quality of your faith will depend greatly on what you hear or on how dependable the information you feed your mind proves to be. Appropriately, the Bible says that “faith follows the thing heard.”​—Romans 10:17.

A fundamental requirement for faith is “an accurate knowledge of truth.” (1 Timothy 2:4) Only “the truth,” says the Bible, “will set you free,” free from misleading beliefs, whether they are scientific or religious. (John 8:32) The Bible warns you not to put faith “in every word.” (Proverbs 14:15) Rather, it says that you should “make sure of all things”​—or test out the things you hear before believing them. (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Why should you do research and test out your beliefs? Because faith based on falsehood is only a delusion. Some noble-minded people from the ancient city of Beroea set a fine example in acquiring proper faith. Even though these individuals really wanted to believe what Christian missionaries taught them, they made a point of “carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.”​—Acts 17:11.

Building Faith in the Bible

What, though, if you are unsure of the reliability of the Bible? How can you build your confidence in it as a source of accurate knowledge? Well, how do you build your confidence in people? Surely, it is by getting to know them​—by watching how they behave over a period of time and seeing how their conduct turns out. Why not do the same with the Bible?

The Bible describes true faith as “the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.” (Hebrews 11:1) Clearly, far from being naive, a person with real faith has based his beliefs on a careful scrutiny of all available data. Reasoning on such information produces the conviction that even things that cannot be seen with the literal eye are, nonetheless, realities.

What, though, if what you learn seems to contradict some of your deeply held beliefs? Should you just ignore it? Of course not. There may well be times when it is eminently reasonable to consider powerful evidence that appears to contradict what you believe. In the Bible, God promises to reward sincere individuals who search for truth by granting them knowledge, discernment, and thinking ability.​—Proverbs 2:1-12.

The kind of faith built on what the Bible teaches is compatible with reason. What kind of faith do you have? Many people have “inherited” their religious beliefs and have never seriously examined them in the light of reason. Yet, it is not a sign of disrespect to examine what you believe so as to ‘prove to yourself’ that your thinking is in harmony with God’s Word. (Romans 12:2) The Bible admonishes us to “test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God.” (1 John 4:1) If you do that, you will be in a position, even when your beliefs are challenged, to “make a defense before everyone that demands of you a reason for the hope in you.”​—1 Peter 3:15.

Maybe I worded it wrongly. I meant to say that the more proof you seek the less faith you have. Everything you said above is physically unprovable. You may think it is, but it is your brain that decides not that God comes to you and says here I am. You say the "Word of God" that just happens to be written by man, but is his word based on your faith it is, unless you witness God write it down.

Do you believe that God picks the Pope? Do you believe the sections of the bible we have today was Gods work to just pick those and the ones left out was because he didn't want them in there? Do you believe the changing of the wording in the bible over the centuries was God editing his word?

There is a ton of "man" in all this, so where does that stop and become God?

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Randyvine2
Burning for eternity isn't exactly non existence.

Myth 1: The Soul Is Immortal (One Myth Leads to Another)

...

What does the Bible say?

“The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”​—Ezekiel 18:4, King James Version.

...

The doctrine of the immortality of the soul raised questions: Where do souls go after death? What happens to the souls of the wicked? When nominal Christians adopted the myth of the immortal soul, this led them to accept another myth​—the teaching of hellfire.

...

FACT:
At death a person ceases to exist

Myth 2: The Wicked Suffer in Hell

What is the origin of the myth?

“Of all classical Greek philosophers, the one who has had the greatest influence on traditional views of Hell is Plato.”​—Histoire des enfers (The History of Hell), by Georges Minois, page 50.

“From the middle of the 2nd century AD Christians who had some training in Greek philosophy began to feel the need to express their faith in its terms . . . The philosophy that suited them best was Platonism [the teachings of Plato].”​—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1988), Volume 25, page 890.

...

What does the Bible say?

“For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, . . . for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going.”​—Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10, Revised Standard Version.

The Hebrew word Sheol, which referred to the “abode of the dead,” is translated “hell” in some versions of the Bible. What does this passage reveal about the condition of the dead? Do they suffer in Sheol in order to atone for their errors? No, for they “know nothing.” That is why the patriarch Job, when suffering terribly because of a severe illness, begged God: “Protect me in hell [Hebrew, Sheol].” (Job 14:13; Douay-Rheims Version) What meaning would his request have had if Sheol was a place of eternal torment? Hell, in the Biblical sense, is simply the common grave of mankind, where all activity has ceased.

Is not this definition of hell more logical and in harmony with Scripture? What crime, however horrible, could cause a God of love to torture a person endlessly? (1 John 4:8) But if hellfire is a myth, what about heaven?

...

FACT:
God does not punish people in hell

a reply to: Xtrozero
Did you watch the videos at the end of that comment? They're the ones that discuss some of the evidence for God's existence. Here's some evidence for the claim that the Bible is God's word, as in penned down by men that were inspired by God to write what they wrote:

the bible-accurate history reliable prophecy part 1 of 3 (playlist)

There's more relevant evidence concerning my views about these subjects in the rest of that playlist.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

Do you believe that God picks the Pope?

No (but Satan might, but I think he's fine with whoever holds that position as long as it's someone who does his bidding and promotes "the teachings of demons" that are so popular in Christendom, which is not the same thing as Christianity; 1 Timothy 4:1,2).

Do you believe the sections of the bible we have today was Gods work to just pick those and the ones left out was because he didn't want them in there?

Is My Bible Complete?

TO BE complete, a Bible should correspond as closely as possible to the original manuscripts and thus contain everything that is “inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness.” (2 Tim. 3:16) But you may wonder, How can I be sure that my Bible meets these requirements?

As you may have noticed, a number of Bible versions contain such “deuterocanonical” or “apocryphal” books as Tobit (Tobias), Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Baruch, and 1 and 2 Maccabees. Does this mean that such Bible versions are complete, whereas translations from which deuterocanonical books have been left out are incomplete? If such books were indeed part of the inspired Scriptures, their omission would make a Bible incomplete. But are they?

There is clear evidence that these apocryphal books were not recognized as part of the inspired Scriptures when the Christian congregation was established. At that time the Hebrew Scripture canon had already been fixed and did not include any apocryphal books. The first-century Jewish historian Josephus wrote: “There are not with us myriads of books, discordant and discrepant, but only two and twenty [the equivalent of the thirty-nine books of the Hebrew Scriptures according to modern division], comprising the history of all time, which are justly accredited.” Expressing an awareness regarding the existence of apocryphal books, he continues: “From the time of Artaxerxes up to our own everything has been recorded, but the records have not been accounted equally worthy of credit with those written before them, because the exact succession of prophets ceased.”​—Against Apion, Book I, par. 8 (according to the translation in The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible, Vol. 1, p. 163).

...

The apocryphal books manifestly were no part of the inspired Scriptures and were clearly not recognized as such in the early centuries of our Common Era. Their omission from a translation of the Bible, therefore, does not make that version incomplete.

...

Not sure how to answer your question the way it's phrased now though (I would have to pick either yes or no, if I want to go with "yes", I'd probably have to rephrase it first, but then it's no longer "yes" to your question the way it's phrased now; so I'm not sure what else to say).

Do you believe the changing of the wording in the bible over the centuries was God editing his word?

No. Languages change, translations are necessary for those who cannot read ancient Hebrew or Greek, and the original languages do not translate 1:1 to modern languages, so different renderings are possible.

Has God’s Written Word Been Changed? (2020)

Short answer, no.

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There are thousands of copies of ancient manuscripts of the Holy Scriptures. If one copy has even the slightest difference, it can be compared with other copies to establish the truth.​—To learn more, see the article “Has the Bible Been Changed or Tampered With?” on jw.org.

Consider, for example, the ancient documents called the Dead Sea Scrolls, discovered by bedouins in caves near the Dead Sea in 1947. These ancient writings contain parts of the Holy Scriptures dating back over two thousand years. Experts compared these ancient manuscripts with the Holy Scriptures we have today. What did they find?

Scholars found that the contents of God’s Word that we have today reflect the original writings. * A careful examination of older manuscripts confirms that what we read in the Holy Scriptures is God’s original message. We can be sure that God has diligently preserved the accuracy of his Holy Writings for us today.

...

There is a ton of "man" in all this, so where does that stop and become God?

I refer you to the earlier linked documentary about the Bible's reliable and accurate history and prophecy in order to be able to tell the difference between the words of men and the words of God. I do not agree with your view that the Bible contains the words of men (or has a ton of "man" in it as you put it).

“All Scripture is inspired of God.” These words at 2 Timothy 3:16 identify God, whose name is Jehovah, as the Author and Inspirer of the Holy Scriptures. From Genesis to Revelation, without any apocryphal books. With that view, it's kinda hard to answer the 2nd part of your question.

I understand this is hard for you to believe or accept, which is why I linked that documentary.

a reply to: Randyvine2

I bet you're the kind of guy that if you saw your wife having dinner
with her boss? You'd accuse her that same night of having an affair
with him. Most likely before she got a word out of her mouth.

It's this type of judgmental, mean spirited, attitudes from many Christians I grew up with that caused me to reject Christianity. I didn't reject God.

Christians quote the bible to others but their speech and actions show they don't live it.

I find it hard to trust anything a Christian says....

I know it's a broad brush but it thru repeated personal experiences that I have drawn my conclusions. And this thread has confirmed my decision, I made years ago.

originally posted by: whereislogic

Did you watch the videos at the end of that comment? They're the ones that discuss some of the evidence for God's existence. Here's some evidence for the claim that the Bible is God's word, as in penned down by men that were inspired by God to write what they wrote:

the bible-accurate history reliable prophecy part 1 of 3 (playlist)

There's more relevant evidence concerning my views about these subjects in the rest of that playlist.

I never said that that bible didn't have accurate historical facts in it, but it doesn't need to be the hand of God to do that. Just as the dead sea scrolls have accurate historical facts AND we can see how the bible evolved into what it is today. That evolution was not God's hand but man's fully capable ability to do it.

As to the videos...

I have seen and discussed each of the so called intelligent design proof and the one fundamental point in all of it that your side pushes is if we do not know how it works then it must be God's work. We did that also back went we had 100s of Gods not knowing how anything worked, so each thing was a God...See the logic there?

I have had countless debates on evolution and a long time ago I came to the realization not to debate faith as it is a waste of time. The reason it is a waste of time is because if I told you the sky is blue and your faith said it is red then even if I forced you to see the blue sky you would still say it is red.

originally posted by: olaru12


I find it hard to trust anything a Christian says....

I know it's a broad brush but it thru repeated personal experiences that I have drawn my conclusions. And this thread has confirmed my decision, I made years ago.

And yet Christian aid around the world from just the US alone is about 100 billion according to the IRS.

At home they are also huge in time of need.

Christian non-profit organizations have outdone FEMA and provided the vast majority of the relief aid to victims of Hurricanes Harvey and Irma.

Faith-based relief groups are responsible for providing nearly 80 percent of the aid delivered thus far to communities with homes devastated by the recent hurricanes, according to USA Today. An alliance of non-profit organizations called National Voluntary Organizations Active in Disaster (NVOAD), 75 percent of which are faith based, has helped FEMA distribute relief assistance to communities hit by disasters and assisted families in navigating government aid programs to begin the process of rebuilding.

To say you can not trust a Christian is pretty said... It is funny I lived in a not so great neighborhood years ago and the one family I could count on if I had to no notice drop my kids off and say I need you to watch them with 100% assurance they would be taken care of was a Mormon family down the street...Go figure.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
...
As to the videos...

I have seen and discussed each of the so called intelligent design proof and the one fundamental point in all of it that your side pushes is if we do not know how it works then it must be God's work. ...

Perhaps it would help* if you would stop trying to fit these arguments into your favorite straw man argument also promoted by the media whenever the topic of ID is mentioned. As is also addressed in this documentary about ID:

*: at least it will demonstrate you're a bit more openminded than the average victim of media propaganda favoring pseudoscience and philosophers like Lawrence Krauss and Richard Dawkins.

originally posted by: whereislogic

Perhaps it would help* if you would stop trying to fit these arguments into your favorite straw man argument also promoted by the media whenever the topic of ID is mentioned. As is also addressed in this documentary about ID:

It is not a strawman as much as an observation of mine, take it or leave it. Now suggesting things I say that you disagree with is media driven is actually a strawman...lol

I don't think you really understand were I'm coming from..

I'm saying intelligent design or randomness based on fundamental laws in our universe is unprovable, so not an argument I care to engage in. I see evolution as real, BUT it could be either God's tool to make life over billions of years, or not. The only argument I typically go against is the "poof" argument that God "poof" the world and humans into existence. I see no reason why God could not have started humans on their course 14.5 billion years ago, being all knowing, all powerful right?

I also see the story of Adam and Eve to be the story of evolution of when man finally evolved into a state of self-awareness putting on clothe ashamed to be naked like all the other animals were. The Garden of Eden is actually the animal kingdom were there is no good or evil just animal instinct, and man left that world never to return...hence the story of Adam and Eve...

So ya I can see things differently.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: olaru12


I find it hard to trust anything a Christian says....

I know it's a broad brush but it thru repeated personal experiences that I have drawn my conclusions. And this thread has confirmed my decision, I made years ago.

And yet Christian aid around the world from just the US alone is about 100 billion according to the IRS.

At home they are also huge in time of need.

Christian non-profit organizations have outdone FEMA and provided the vast majority of the relief aid to victims of Hurricanes Harvey and Irma.

Faith-based relief groups are responsible for providing nearly 80 percent of the aid delivered thus far to communities with homes devastated by the recent hurricanes, according to USA Today. An alliance of non-profit organizations called National Voluntary Organizations Active in Disaster (NVOAD), 75 percent of which are faith based, has helped FEMA distribute relief assistance to communities hit by disasters and assisted families in navigating government aid programs to begin the process of rebuilding.

To say you can not trust a Christian is pretty said... It is funny I lived in a not so great neighborhood years ago and the one family I could count on if I had to no notice drop my kids off and say I need you to watch them with 100% assurance they would be taken care of was a Mormon family down the street...Go figure.

I guess I should have added, I don't trust atheist, non Christians, anybody really until know them and can make a decision.

“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: dandandat2

As an Atheist I can tell you exactly why I am so agrey with God. He gave humanity free will but than he compells humans to worship him under threat of eternal damnation. We humans would never accept this level of megalomania among ourselves why do we accept it from our God? So ofcourse I am angree with God.

All laws, whether natural or human have consequences if they're not followed. So, is your anger mostly placed with the fact that we were given free will to break them? I struggle with this sometimes. Do I understand why God preferred that we "choose" him over being forced? Yes, but it still doesn't make me feel better about having to share this world with other people who use their own free will to hurt others. However, it does give me a reason to thank him and appreciate him everyday for the way he protects me from the pain and suffering that we're capable of experiencing here.

amen to that!

With a relationship with Christ comes the benefit of protection, and light in our dwellings during times of darkness.....He appoints angels to His children

We're more protected then we realize imo.

originally posted by: olaru12

“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche

Is something a lie just because it is untrue when the person saying it actually believes it is true? You see this is why I really do not have issues with religion as I do not see them lying to me as much as them having convictions I do not believe in. Those convictions in most cases are based good fundamental morals, so all good with me.

Now, yes there are a few bad apples in every bushel, but it doesn't make all apple bad...

Cheers

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Deetermined
No you didn't explain away the inconsistency because the "why" is because god says he doesn't want sinners in heaven. It was why satan was cast from heaven, before humans were created and ends up in the garden but for some strange reason in job he is allowed to enter.

People who worship the God of the Bible have personal experiences too that lead them to believe that what's written is true.

I know I used to be one of them.

Based on your OBE experiences, what are you being led to believe as it pertains to faith?

I'm not being led to believe anything. I have seen a couple things and thinking about it, I could see how people could have had a similar experience and ended up creating the various religions of the world.

You know there are three heavens?

And I imagine an infinite amount of other heavenly places.

I did not know about the three heavens until recently so that's why I am asking....

That's also why earlier I said maybe Satan is indeed kicked out of the highest heaven but can roam freely in other dimensions and on different planets...

I wonder many things....

a reply to: Randyvine2

I wouldn't want to face the creator of the
universe without Jesus Christ standing next to me. Not after the snip I've done

Amen to that!

That's the gospel right there...

Jesus is willing to advocate in your favor before God, The Most High powerful creator of the universe.

a reply to: olaru12

I don't ride a bike wear a tie and white shirt and I don't cut my hair
either. I just drive truck take care of my people and have always had
a good sense of right from wrong. If that makes me a Christian then
thank you for pointing that out.

a reply to: dandandat2

But I do not possess a belief that god exists. I have no belief based incentive or feeling inside that God is there and that It knows or cares about humans.

Have you asked? Have you asked and meant it in your heart?

He is there so you should get an answer....... answers are often not in any form we might expect....it could be a sign, or a person, or just a thought.......ad infinitffum.....

I'll do an experiment just for the heck of it....

After posting I'm going to pray that the Lord gets your attention in some way that might amaze you....

originally posted by: whereislogic

originally posted by: GoShredAK
...
This includes many many trials and tribulations and it's meant to be that way.....

I trust God even when things look dismall....

Just remember:

When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed* [Or “caught as by bait.”] by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile,* [Lit., “has conceived.”] gives birth to sin; in turn sin, when it has been carried out, brings forth death. (James 1:13-15)

Humans were not meant to be slaves to sin and their fleshly desires. And God has provided a way out, a path to true freedom from the inherited* slavery to sin and (fleshly) desire. (*: inherited from Adam because of Adam's actions, not God's, see Romans 5:12)

John 8:31-47:

31 Then Jesus went on to say to the Jews who had believed him: “If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” 33 They replied to him: “We are Abraham’s offspring* [Lit., “seed.”] and never have been slaves to anyone. How is it you say, ‘You will become free’?” 34 Jesus answered them: “Most truly I say to you, every doer of sin is a slave of sin. 35 Moreover, the slave does not remain in the household forever; the son remains forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be truly free. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s offspring. But you are seeking to kill me, because my word makes no progress among you. 38 I speak the things I have seen while with my Father, but you do the things you have heard from your father.” 39 In answer they said to him: “Our father is Abraham.” Jesus said to them: “If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works of Abraham. 40 But now you are seeking to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You are doing the works of your father.” They said to him: “We were not born from immorality; we have one Father, God.”

42 Jesus said to them: “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I have not come of my own initiative, but that One sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot listen to* [Or “accept.”] my word. 44 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie. 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell you the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Who of you convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it that you do not believe me? 47 The one who is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why you do not listen, because you are not from God.”

I very much appreciate this reply to my post......I appreciate anything that challenges my mind and gives me knowledge....

I am aware that most if not all of my trials were of my own making as a result of sin......

It was during those times I had to choose whether to continue down a path of darkness or to dig deap and live with faith.......

In those times I was brought closer to God.......

So I know he did not give me the trials but was absolutely gracious enough to see me through and restore me better than before.

He was always there to respond to my cries of faith...

Even though the pain would still be there because he couldn't take my consequences away instantly..........he was there.....and looking back all my prayers have been answered......many of those prayers were the Holy Spirit interceding for me because it's hard to know what you need to pray for sometimes.