Why are atheist so angry with God?

a reply to: GoShredAK

Faith with reason I might add because I had the experience and studying under my belt to know who I was praying to and that they are faithful and capable.

a reply to: Randyvine2
I no longer believe any of it but there are denominations where humans burning for eternity is believed.

ETA: Looked up the white throne judgment and all it says is "Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."

It doesn't really specify if those thrown in it will cease to exist or will burn for eternity.

a reply to: Deetermined
I see you are not going to get it.

I can't curse something I believe doesn't exist.

I am not holding a grudge about something I misunderstood at 14.

Square one is me telling someone else why reading and my personal take on Job was the last nail in the coffin of my faith.

How can I be wrong in telling my personal experience?

originally posted by: whereislogic
If you leave out the stuff about theism...

But they didn't leave it out, they included it in parenthesis and that is why they also included the part about believing god does exist.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Randyvine2
I no longer believe any of it but there are denominations where humans burning for eternity is believed.

ETA: Looked up the white throne judgment and all it says is "Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."

It doesn't really specify if those thrown in it will cease to exist or will burn for eternity.

Revelations 21;8

"[A]s for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, the murderers, the fornicators, the sorcerers, the idolaters, and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

The choice is yours to make so I'm not pursuing that.
Just try to be more accurate so your not spreading lies.

God is merciful.

a reply to: Randyvine2
That also doesn't really say the souls will stop existing.

Honestly, it seems you are interpreting it in a way that makes it palatable to you.

It makes no difference to me because I just don't buy it, one way or the other.

a reply to: GoShredAK

Funny how you’ve responded to everyone else’s post except this one.


- JC

Originally posted by Randyvine2

Revelations 21;8

"[A]s for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, the murderers, the fornicators, the sorcerers, the idolaters, and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."


The choice is yours to make so I'm not pursuing that.
Just try to be more accurate so your not spreading lies.

God is merciful.

It doesn't sound like a just and fair punishment fitting the crime/s... if you ask me...

- JC

Because satan deceived them and they believed a lie so anything else doesn't make sense.

a reply to: ARCofthecovenANT

The thing I don't understand about athiests that I have at least had conversations and debated, is that they talk down to Muslims, Christian, Jews for belief in the same God who has created multiple religions to be worship in different in ways...and yet they expect you to believe their factual "Science" that no intelligent design occurred on the earth and it was magically seeded by right conditions, timing, special primordial soup diamonds that became cells and evolved into humans and that this is absolutely unequivocally fact and you must accept it 100% when it is not a fact, it is a theory and not proven yet.

So why am I stupid for believing in an intelligent design entity that created everything which gives people hope and they are smart for believing in this dark chaotic crazy scenario involving random creation from nothing. It seems to me atheism is also a religion. My religion at least gives me hope of something better.

What I find a bit odd is that Christians continue to quote scripture to an atheist like it will some how magically convert them to their faith. If you want to convert an atheist, try something a little more concrete and factual; that seems to be their particular mind set.

23 pages in...I wonder what the conversion rate is.

How can an atheist be angry with something they don't believe in?

I am an atheist. I don't believe in any god. I don't follow any religion.

Peoples belief in a god/religion has caused more deaths than anything
else.

Don't forget the bible, the talmud, the quoran and any other religious text you care to mention are only fairy tales.
People need something to believe in. People need to believe that there is something there after they die. I get that.

There is nothing. there is no god or 42 virgins or valhalla or any other after death party you can think of when you die.

The stories from the brothers Grimm are more believable and a lot more fun.

originally posted by: olaru12
If you want to convert an atheist, try something a little more concrete and factual; that seems to be their particular mind set.

If the fact that the human brain has over 800,000 miles of neural circuitry compacted into its skull to allow self-awareness, logic, emotions, healing, vision, taste, etc, etc, etc, doesn't prove to the logical mind the necessity of a logical Designer, then nothing will. Not even if someone rose from the dead by their own volition.

originally posted by: nolabel

Peoples belief in a god/religion has caused more deaths than anything
else.

Nope, lack of belief in a God is associated with the two most genocidal people of all time.. Stalin and Mao killed far more than anyone else in history and they were both atheists. Not to mention evolutionary theory's profound effect on Hitler's ideology:

"The stronger must dominate and not mate with the weaker,
which would signify the sacrifice of its own higher nature. Only the
born weakling can look upon this principle as cruel, and if he does so
it is merely because he is of a feebler nature and narrower mind; for if
such a law did not direct the process of evolution then the higher
development of organic life would not be conceivable at all."

"If Nature does not wish that weaker individuals should mate with the
stronger, she wishes even less that a superior race should intermingle
with an inferior one; because in such a case all her efforts, throughout
hundreds of thousands of years, to establish an evolutionary higher
stage of being, may thus be rendered futile."

-Mein Kampf Ch XI

originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: GoShredAK

Funny how you’ve responded to everyone else’s post except this one.


- JC

I will get to it

It's a great post and there is a lot to think about....

I work a pretty labor intensive job full time and don't always have the mental energy to post...... especially to such a challenging reply such as yours

So be patient with me and I'll get there

Also it really isn't that important to me to be right about anything or to debate about this stuff too much.......I'm not too invested in it......

ATS is entertainment for me, I'm all about planting seeds of faith in the gospel but honestly don't get much out of religious debates.....

I have a pretty strong faith in Jesus and do my fair share of studying the Bible and listening to sermons and lectures from different pastors..... actually I'm obsessed and it is how I use a lot of my free time.....so I get enthusiastic because I know I study more than the average person.

But still in the end I have no freaking idea what is really going on?!?

Life is a mystery and anyone completely sure of themselves is fooling themselves if you ask me.

a reply to: Joecroft

You said:

The “plot hole” is that Satan is supposedly being aloud to roam around freely harming people. Peoples Souls are on the line!...

The thing is, people’s souls could still be on the line with free will (freedom) choice still being present…without the need for some big evil entity making things worse…God is all about saving Souls…but supposedly lets this evil entity roam around freely to devour souls and tempt people etc…

Also it kind of gives people an out…”Satan made me do it“..for example…

Romans 1:20 says this:

“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:”

It's your choice to reject God. It's your choice to reject Christ. The Bible says you're without excuse. You're using your carnal mind to deny what you know to be true. You know how many times you have questioned your non belief but used your free will and carnal mind to supress and reject that calling from your spiritual nature.

God Created beings with free will and beings who know the consequences if they use their free will to reject God's Grace through Jesus Christ.

The verse you're talking about is talking to Christians. Here's that verse and the one after it:

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

Why would the devil seek to afflict and devour non believers? Katie Perry and Lil Uzi Vert are doing his bidding. Atheists are doing his bidding.

The Bible says those who follow Christ will be afflicted and chastised. This is who the devil wants to devour. Look what Paul said about the thorn in his side:

2 Corinthians 12:6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

This is why the prosperity gospel is false. They tell people God wants them to be wealthy and worry free. This isn't the case. It's good you asked this question in order to illustrate this point. I have never said this on ATS, but this is my testimony.

When I was younger, I gave my life to Christ and I was baptized. When I was in school I was a rapper. So I gave up rapping for the Lord and I joined the Army. While in the Army, I met some guys that were producing music so I started rapping again. We formed a group, are song was played on the radio and we got a record deal. We recorded videos that have been on B.E.T. and did shows with everyone from LL Cool J to Jay-Z.

The guy who owned our label was a big drug dealer and we were living it up, going to strip clubs and touring around the Country. He got caught with $500,000 in his trunk and we found out they had him under surveillance the whole time. He went to jail and things fell apart. I was determined to continue musicand get back into the life.

I had a stroke at age 30. I had to learn to walk and talk again and thankfully, I got most of my strength back. People don't even know I had a stroke unless I tell them. After my stroke, I got deep into porn and I still had friends in the music business. So I was determined to get back to where I was but God had a different plan for me.

As I tried to get back to my life, God began to call me. It just got louder and louder even though I kept resisting. Eventually, I started reading the Bible online and asking my Brother-in-Law about scripture. The Spirit of God overwhelmed me and I went through some things I will not go into now. I was being chastised, convicted and afflicted.

I realize now, that I had to go through those things to pull me out of the world I was trying to get back to. The point is, I thank God everyday that I had a stroke. I could have died that night but God loved me enough to wake me up out of my determination to get back to the world.

I say this because it goes directly to your point and the Spirit moved me to share this at this time. Maybe it's for you or somebody reading this thread. Here's some passages from the Bible that talk about this:

Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

Also:

Psalm 34:19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the Lord delivereth him out of them all.

THANK YOU GOD!

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: randomuser

originally posted by: fencesitter85

originally posted by: randomuser

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: randomuser
a reply to: TzarChasm

That's circular reasoning. We have imagination because it is a part of what makes us like God. Go to an animal, and see if they come up with the idea of Spiderman, or SuperDog, or WonderCat.

Contemplate if a dolphin or an elephant thinks about eternity. Wonders about their origins, and where they are headed. They cannot and don't.

Where does the ability to see into the unknown and contemplate eternity come from? Evolution doesn't explain it. None of the animals have it.

What animal asks about tomorrow?

What animals seeks higher understanding and wisdom?

What animal as a spiritual need and longing?

All these things humans possess and display. We all have it. Even you. Yes you do. You can deny it and degrade, and name call, and chastise. But it is there inside you. The very fact that your mind wages war against the idea and spews hatred against the very idea is proof you have it. Animals couldn't care less if you sat there and told them they had a spiritual need. Go ahead and try it. Tell your horse, or cow, or goat, or dog, or cat, or mouse, or whatever animals it may be about spiritual things. See if they become hate filled, or see if they care. See if they even understand what you are trying to tell them.

You do understand. You try to act like you don't. Yet you use the same human mind gifted with the ability to communicate that I have. We are both children of Adam, and he was made in God's image. With that comes free will and the ability to display God's attributes. To show love and compassion, empathy and tenderness kindness to strangers, to foreigners, to neighbors.

You exercise free will to reject the idea, although you are able to understand what I am telling you. You are not like the animals, unreasoning, and meant only for destruction. Or perhaps you are:

"But these men, like unreasoning animals that act on instinct and are born to be caught and destroyed, speak abusively about things of which they are ignorant."-2 Peter 2:12.

"You are not like the animals, unreasoning, and meant only for destruction"

Perhaps you can tell me, who is doing the destroying? And how that is meant to resemble superiority?

“You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him" - Malcolm S. Forbes

If you mean that religious people are doing a lot of the destruction. I agree with you. That doesn't mean God doesn't exist. That just means they exercise their freewill to do what is evil.

God's word even foretells of people that would have "an appearance of godliness but prove false to its power."-2 Timothy 3:5.

The world of is full of religious hypocrites. That doesn't change who God is.

Why did god create evil? Free will could exist without it involving the concept or possibility of heinous acts. He created all the necessary elements required for rape and genocide. Free will is a terrible excuse for a god who either doesn't care about his subjects, or is incompetent.

God did not create evil. He created other beings like him with the ability to reason and think and love. Both spirit and physical, us humans, and the angels. Our freewill is so we can show love especially to God. Otherwise we would just be like the animals acting on instinct, or robots programmed to do a certain task. Creatures God created as free moral agents chose to abuse of their freewill and do what is evil. But that is not because of God. The defect came from their own wicked hearts.

You don't know what God did or didn't do, you're not the author of the bible nor an official spokesperson selected to represent his agency. You're just another person on the internet.

This is analogous to your meeting a surgeon at the grocery store, and after he explains something which he is an expert at in his field replying, "you're not a surgeon you're just a random guy I met at the grocery store."

a reply to: GoShredAK

Originally posted by GoShredAK
I will get to it

It's a great post and there is a lot to think about....

Thanks…

Originally posted by GoShredAK
I work a pretty labor intensive job full time and don't always have the mental energy to post...... especially to such a challenging reply such as yours

Out of diverse opinions new ideas and truths can emerge…imo

Originally posted by GoShredAK
Also it really isn't that important to me to be right about anything or to debate about this stuff too much.......I'm not too invested in it......

But you are trying to talk about truth; truths that you believe in…so you must be invested in it to some degree…

Originally posted by GoShredAK
ATS is entertainment for me, I'm all about planting seeds of faith in the gospel but honestly don't get much out of religious debates.....

Well, if you’re trying to plant seeds by speaking truth…then discussions are a natural part of that process…

I think many people have this idea that Debates are on the same level as bickering or arguing in an unfriendly type of manner…but debates can also take the form of respectful discussions…just two people talking…

Originally posted by GoShredAK
I have a pretty strong faith in Jesus and do my fair share of studying the Bible and listening to sermons and lectures from different pastors..... actually I'm obsessed and it is how I use a lot of my free time.....so I get enthusiastic because I know I study more than the average person.

But still in the end I have no freaking idea what is really going on?!?

I wise person once told me that it didn’t matter how many opinions I listened too or read about etc…because only I could come to ultimately know if something is true or not; anything else would just be me accepting a truth without really knowing it…

But this get’s back to part of what I saying in my other post…because Christians just believe by Faith…but Jesus said seek the truth…and then goes on to say that that truth will set you free…which to me sounds more like a knowing, rather than believing/accepting something by faith alone…

Originally posted by GoShredAK
Life is a mystery and anyone completely sure of themselves is fooling themselves if you ask me.

I know what you mean… take a field like quantum mechanics for example…It’s an extremely complicated and mysterious area of science…and yet certain truths within it are being established and are continuing to be established…even though no one understands the whole of it completely…

So yes, it would be foolish for anyone to state they know everything completely, especially in regards to enormously complex subjects…but one can still find truths within those complex/mysterious subjects…


- JC

a reply to: neoholographic
You are still just dismissing the plot hole.

Say a parent is married and has 2 kids. Their best friend tries to sleep with their spouse and then gets one of their kids hooked on drugs.

Does it seem normal that not only would they continue to allow this person in their home but at some point say, "hey, I know you got Jr. hooked on meth but have you considered little johnny, he is a good kid I bet you can't get him hooked on drugs but give it your best shot."

a reply to: neoholographic

Originally posted by neoholographic
Romans 1:20 says this:

“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:”

It's your choice to reject God. It's your choice to reject Christ. The Bible says you're without excuse. You're using your carnal mind to deny what you know to be true. You know how many times you have questioned your non belief but used your free will and carnal mind to supress and reject that calling from your spiritual nature.

God Created beings with free will and beings who know the consequences if they use their free will to reject God's Grace through Jesus Christ.

You say I have the freewill choice to accept or reject it but…

…you made this post below in response to another poster in this thread…

Originally posted by neoholographic
Your questions supports scripture.

I wasn't born in a different land. The Bible says:

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

So again, I wasn't born in a different land. I was predestinated to be born here and to follow His Purpose.

If it’s all predestined…how do I have a choice…

According to those verses you quoted it’s all preordained…but according to Jesus anyone can seek the truth and find it…

Originally posted by neoholographic
The verse you're talking about is talking to Christians. Here's that verse and the one after it:

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

I didn’t quote any verses…lol

Anyway, that verse says… ”seeking whom he may devour”…whom sounds like anyone or whomever…meaning not just Christians…

The NIV version uses the word “someone”

NIV
Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

“Someone” again, sounds like more than just Christian people…

Originally posted by Joecroft
The “plot hole” is that Satan is supposedly being aloud to roam around freely harming people. Peoples Souls are on the line!...

The thing is, people’s souls could still be on the line with free will (freedom) choice still being present…without the need for some big evil entity making things worse…God is all about saving Souls…but supposedly lets this evil entity roam around freely to devour souls and tempt people etc…

Also it kind of gives people an out…”Satan made me do it“..for example…

You seem to be trying to nullify my question above…but it just isn’t working…

Originally posted by neoholographic
Why would the devil seek to afflict and devour non believers? Katie Perry and Lil Uzi Vert are doing his bidding. Atheists are doing his bidding.

That’s a broad brush you’re painting there with that statement…“Atheists are doing his bidding.”…

Sure, some atheists may have made up their mind in regards to a belief in God but that doesn’t make them all Evil agents of Satan...also some atheists may still be searching or unsure etc…

Anyway, Satan is generally regarded as the Deceiver…surely atheists are the ones being deceived, from the Christian perspective I mean…right ?

Originally posted by neoholographic
The Bible says those who follow Christ will be afflicted and chastised. This is who the devil wants to devour. Look what Paul said about the thorn in his side:

To break this down…you’re trying to nullify my question above, by stating that Satan isn’t trying to devour the Souls of atheists, because all atheists are working for Satan already…

You’re also stating that Satan is only out to Devour Christians…

But why would Satan be trying to only devour Christians, when they are already saved! ?

Originally posted by neoholographic
This is why the prosperity gospel is false. They tell people God wants them to be wealthy and worry free. This isn't the case. It's good you asked this question in order to illustrate this point. I have never said this on ATS, but this is my testimony.

Thanks for your testimony…I’m glad you got back on your feet…

But my question was about that evil entity being aloud to devour and deceive Souls…it’s wasn’t about how well or how badly someone’s day to day living is…

Everyone will go through hard times in their life at one time or another. Including Atheists, Christians and people from all manner of different types of religions. Even the wealthiest people in the world will experience bad times…like losing a loved one…getting sick…marriage break ups etc…

- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

Again, you asked and it was answered. The NIV says a lot of different things and it leaves stuff out. This is why I included the very next verse. Paul was talking to Christians.

Here it is again:

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

Let me repeat:

9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

He's specifically talking about afflictians. He's telling them to be steadfast in their faith because other Christians are going through the same thing.

This is why I talked about Paul and the thorn in his flesh.

Does satan seek to devour atheists in the same way? No and in the context you mentioned, he was talking about Christians being afflicted. Why would satan afflict Richard Dawkins in the same way he does a Christian? He wants Dawkins writing more books and getting into more debates trashing God.

This isn't to say that non-believers don't have problems but afflictions and being chastised is something totally different. Paul said I die daily.

1 Corinthians 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

Also:

Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Again, Paul was talking to Christians in the verse that you were talking about. When Christians are Born Again, a seed, which is the righteousness of Christ is born in them. Our sinful nature remains and satan knows this so he seeks to afflict and devour followers of Christ so you have to die daily.

This is why satan wanted Peter:

Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

33 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.

34 And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.

With a believer the Spirit of God is born into you. For this reason, satan wants to afflict and torment Christians. Non believers have the breath of life in them but they don't have the Holy Spirit from God born in them. Satan wants to afflict those who are Born Again because it's our sinful nature tormenting the Holy Spirit from God and the Righteousness of Christ.

You said:

To break this down…you’re trying to nullify my question above, by stating that Satan isn’t trying to devour the Souls of atheists, because all atheists are working for Satan already…

Nope, I nullify your question and your plot hole by giving you context as to who Paul was talking to in the verse you mentioned.

It's clear satan goes after and wants to afflict the followers of Christ. When He's cast out of Heaven in Revelation 12, he looks to devour the woman(Church) not the non believers.

Revelation 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

The beast from Revelation 13 makes war with the saints not the non-believers. The non-believers are the ones celebrating and sending each other gifts when he kills the two witnesses.

Satan doesn't need to afflict non-believers in this way, they're already sharing his fate.

Now, God doesn't want anyone to share in his fate.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

The truth is, there will be those who will not repent and accept Christ into their hearts. They will use their free will to reject God and reject Christ. You can't blame God for your choice.