UKRAINE/RUSSIA WAR - looks like it’s started

originally posted by: vNex92

originally posted by: sapien82
seems like RT is now blocked on youtube in the Uk
need to connect to a VPN to watch it on youtube

the UK government must have done this , but I thought only China and DPRK do this type of stuff

They dont want to see the footages of what is actual happening in Ukraine.

RT never had any.

Just putin propaganda.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

the same can be said for every news media
they have all been caught red handed dishing out the propganda eye candy for everyone to consume

lets not pretend one is better than the other
they can all be bought and paid for

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

the same can be said for every news media
they have all been caught red handed dishing out the propganda eye candy for everyone to consume

lets not pretend one is better than the other
they can all be bought and paid for

msm IS 'democrats'.

I'm not going to specify that in every post.

Too lazy.



Every single democrat spent the last 6 years PUSHING russian propaganda 24x7.

There are NO exceptions.



Happy now?

The Russia Today news channel is currently talking about how the west has blocked it’s people from watching it.

…I’m watching them say this broadcast on U.K. freeview tv..! I can also watch it on U.K. internet!

Maybe the ban just hasn’t taken effect yet, but this does underline how disjointed, chaotic, confused and out of sync this whole international affair has become on its way from the horses mouth to the public’s ear.

One thing I do believe is true is that the public of Russia, Ukraine and the West have no quarrel with one another. This is a proxy war to satiate the ambitions of conquest and omnipotence of powerful elites.

Twas ever thus.

Those here that can’t agree at least upon that are indeed shills and trolls on behalf of those elites on one side or another, whether they do that intentionally or not.

…….
Forgive the rant

A little specifics on sanctions from European businessmen -
There are airlines in the world. They have planes. But all over the world, in all airlines, planes are not owned, but leased.
The European Union imposed sanctions against Russia and obliged leasing companies (and these are European leasing companies) to return all leased aircraft from Russia by March 28.
This is 520 sides.
Then I quote Phil Seymour, Chairman of the Association of Leasing Companies in Europe:
1. Return 520 boards! And how to do it? The Russians said if you refuse to lease - take it yourself! How to deliver 520 crews to Russia if the skies of Russia, Belarus and Ukraine are closed? We can't fly in!!!
2. As soon as the transfer of the boards takes place at the airports of Russia, the planes will cease to be Russian. But not a Russian plane can't fly in Russian space - it's closed!!! We won't be able to fly out!!!
3. Leasing companies are the initiators of the termination of leasing. In the initial calculation of the costs of fines = we are all bankrupt at once. It's easier to go bankrupt than to take the sides. It's cheaper.
4. February has passed and Russia has to pay the lease payments of the month. Russia agrees, but cannot pay, because swift is disabled. We will have to pay fines, and we have no money!!!
5. Even if we take these planes, what should we do with them? We don't need them, nobody needs them and it's impossible to sell them!!!!!
6. The United States has not closed the sky and is not taking away its Boeing. If we take the Russian planes, we will immediately go bankrupt, and the States will supply Russia with their Boeing and become the N1 airline in the world, ruining both European leasing and Airbus.
Just for the sake of one such benefit, the States should have unleashed a war in Ukraine..."

And this is similar in all industries that have fallen under sanctions. grain prices are breaking records, gas prices are breaking records, oil prices are breaking records - and so on in everything.
The leaders of a number of non-Western countries have stated that they will not participate in such an economic suicide and are not going to support sanctions. Even Turkey, a NATO member, is in no hurry to join the sanctions.

And after all this, is Putin crazy?

a reply to: McGinty

you nailed it man , we the people dont want the conflict , just the assholes running our countries

# the lot of them self serving hypocrite bastards
that can rot in hell

originally posted by: BZiker

And this is similar in all industries that have fallen under sanctions. grain prices are breaking records, gas prices are breaking records, oil prices are breaking records - and so on in everything.
The leaders of a number of non-Western countries have stated that they will not participate in such an economic suicide and are not going to support sanctions. Even Turkey, a NATO member, is in no hurry to join the sanctions.

And after all this, is Putin crazy?

yeh thats it prices go up for everyone , millions of Russians will suffer the backlash from the west via sanctions
and more continue to suffer in Ukraine , all by the decisions of a minority of politicians across the world
and possibly we will all feel the economic effects in the years to come

how can we allow this to happen in our names, they are playing us in a game
we shouldnt play anymore and we shouldnt allow them to play with our wealth and our health by spending our wealth on wars supported by a handful of people , and our health by sending our young to fight and die in injust violence
and having people at home suffer under the economic crisis created by such war.

The rich get rich and the poor die

a reply to: IAMTAT


First. I have not seen any evidence that Putin owns this yacht. I've been looking for official data in international sources for a long time, but everywhere you need a paid subscription to open this data, and I'm not so interested in it. Perhaps you have verifiable evidence of your own conviction? Share them if there are any. Just don't offer me the press, I need official sources of information.

Second. In Russia, the majority of the population would have chipped in to Putin on any yacht, any palace, and much more. He pulled our country out of clinical death. Society was preparing for a catastrophe and the collapse of Russia according to the Yugoslav scenario. But he saved our country and the whole world from a civil war in a nuclear power.

The third. According to the latest polls of opposition sociological centers, more than 70% of Russians support the operation in Ukraine. In a country where people after the USSR do not believe propaganda at all. Putin is only doing what the Russians expect of him - putting things in order where the neo-Nazis built their nest with the support of NATO. And you will not understand what this means for the people in which literally every family suffered losses during the war with the German Nazis. Then 40 million people died. Nazism for Russians is something that is burned out with a hot iron without mercy. And you won't understand it.

Fourth. The nonsense about China is juicy. The northern lands of China are the most sparsely populated in China. China receives all the necessary resources on a mutually beneficial basis. At the moment, in addition to special operations forces, troops from the regions neighboring China are operating in Ukraine. Troops from the European part of Russia are practically not involved in the operation. Demographic pressure in China is subsiding - China's population is beginning to decline. China needs Taiwan. And it will become part of China voluntarily after the next election (as the main contender for victory has already explicitly stated), or in case of provocations by the current administration of Taiwan, it will be annexed earlier by military means with a referendum.

Fifth. The undocking of the Russian part of the world economy is happening very timely. At the peak of the inflating financial bubble, when the world's leading financial analysts predict a debt collapse in Europe in March-April, when half of the S&P500 companies have already fallen by 60-70% from peak indicators - and the market is literally holding on to 5 corporations, and on the eve of the Federal Reserve rate hike, industrial inflation in the US is already showing 22-26%. At the same time, the continuation of QE is impossible - tax revenues are not able to cover the servicing of even existing debt. Plus the rise in oil and other energy prices.
This has never happened before in history. All possible negative factors have developed. A perfect storm.
In such a situation, propaganda no longer solves anything. Moreover, the one that inflates psychosis, and does not call for logical thinking and attention to verifiable facts.

It seems to me that you don't really understand, but the United States will take this opportunity to get the skin of Europe. Russia is destabilizing NATO with its actions. And if Europe does not come to its senses, then economic problems due to a shortage of resources or high prices for them will simply tear up the European Union. It is these threats that your best financial experts and economists are talking about right now. But your politicians ignore it, and the population is too busy consuming content created in Ukraine.
Speaking of Ukraine. Western military experts say in plain text that the resistance of the Ukrainian army is useless. That the continuation of this agony only increases the number of victims, and any calls for continued resistance in such a situation is essentially a war crime of the Ukrainian authorities against their own people. Or do such performances pass by your attention?

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

MSM "mainstream media" is not just democrats. You have fox news along with other smaller networks like OAN, newsmax, ect..

You don't get to choose that only the left qualifies as MSM because you agree with right-leaning politics.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u


All the media is someone's propaganda. The only question is whether you are afraid of her or not. In Russia, no one blocks access to foreign media. Especially not on YouTube.
This is a special achievement of Western democracy. Or the product of the degradation of your version of democracy - I haven't figured it out for sure yet.

originally posted by: McGinty
The Russia Today news channel is currently talking about how the west has blocked it’s people from watching it.

…I’m watching them say this broadcast on U.K. freeview tv..! I can also watch it on U.K. internet!

Maybe the ban just hasn’t taken effect yet, but this does underline how disjointed, chaotic, confused and out of sync this whole international affair has become on its way from the horses mouth to the public’s ear.

One thing I do believe is true is that the public of Russia, Ukraine and the West have no quarrel with one another. This is a proxy war to satiate the ambitions of conquest and omnipotence of powerful elites.

Twas ever thus.

Those here that can’t agree at least upon that are indeed shills and trolls on behalf of those elites on one side or another, whether they do that intentionally or not.

…….
Forgive the rant

Rant forgiven McGinty

I imagine RT is referring to efforts in Canada to remove/block RT from one of their main cable TV broadcast companies. There is a thread around here about it.

But RT is just doing what all news networks do, over-amplify and cherry pick stories that suit their narrative, which as you point out isn't completely true for the "entire West".

Out of this rotten situation of Russia v Ukraine, the one silver lining I've noticed is universal distrust of just about every "news" outlet, on all sides of the conflict. Then again, that is just SOP for our community here, and I'm not sure I see that same degree of default skepticism and critical thinking in the general public.

a reply to: sapien82


If it's not a secret - how much do you pay for a unit of energy, water, gas and other utility fees?
In Russia, utility bills for an apartment of 120 square meters, I pay literally $ 100 for everything.
We have central heating, gas supply, water supply and everything else.
At the same time, I have no outstanding loans. And the apartment is in my property.
Diesel fuel costs $ 0.5 at the new exchange rate.
Gasoline - depending on the grade - from $ 0.5 to $ 0.6.
The cost of products from Europe has increased, the cost of products from Turkey, Asia and Africa has changed by 5-10%, the cost of products from local producers has remained the same.
The cost of household appliances initially increased by 20-30%, but is already declining - now the difference is about 15%.
The market for new cars in Russia - especially Western manufacturers - collapsed in 2021 due to covid. However, as everywhere else. Many car dealers declared closure or bankruptcy at the beginning of the year. So limiting the supply of cars to places where they were not bought is a game for the public.

In general, if you want - I will keep you informed of the chronicle of the impoverishment of Russians.

a reply to: IAMTAT

How can we reliably verify that it was the Russians who did it, and not provocateurs?

Otherwise, desecration of monuments is more in the spirit of neo-Nazis.
Are you aware that the neo-Nazis of Ukraine, Poland, Latvia and Estonia (the last three members of NATO) are demolishing Holocaust memorials and liberators, desecrating the graves of Russian soldiers who fell in World War II and transferring the graves of victims of concentration camps to the landfill (the latter made in Latvia)?
Or is it not important for you to check the authenticity and consistency of the statements of the media?

a reply to: McGinty


Not at all. I was just curious why you want to give a nuclear bomb to neo-Nazis living on the border with Russia.
Give such a bomb to Kosovo. Let there be an experiment.

originally posted by: SleeperHasAwakened

But RT is just doing what all news networks do, over-amplify and cherry pick stories that suit their narrative, which as you point out isn't completely true for the "entire West".

Absolutely! I tend to watch RT more than the BBC when something like this is happening. I know what my country wants me to think - the headlines and opinions are inescapable - soaked up by osmosis. So i find it's useful to keep tabs on what the other parties in conflict (or whatever the scenario) want their people to think.

Of course it's not as straight forward as the truth then always being slap in the middle of these disparate versions of events; sometimes it is, but other times one side is telling the truth, the other lying and good luck figuring out which is which from our laptops. So imho it's alway's important not to form judgements from an editorial (the enfaces applied to what they show and details they don't show). Now and then you glean perhaps a modicum of illumination by comparing editorials. Therefore i'll be sad to see RT go off air here.

ETA: Same goes for the one or two posters in this forum who extremely pro-Russian. Are they shills or just passionate and incredibly well informed? Who knows - good for them doing their bit, hey! But it's interesting to read their posts not so much to get their perspective, but to glean what perspective they want everyone else to have - just like the msm. Such sources are valuable and to be encouraged to think their mission is working, 'tell us more!'.

originally posted by: BZiker
a reply to: McGinty


Not at all. I was just curious why you want to give a nuclear bomb to neo-Nazis living on the border with Russia.
Give such a bomb to Kosovo. Let there be an experiment.

It's a frustrating scenario for mankind. No sane person wants them on the planet - only perhaps the warmongers. But because they exist they are necessary as a deterrent. My point was that the deterrent would've worked if Ukraine had them.

Are they crazy nazis. You think they are and you're entitled to that opinion - perhaps you have first hand evidence. I'm not going to call them nazis until i see some. But sure, if i saw first hand evidence of the Ukraine leadership (who happen to be Jewish) that proved them to be nazis of any description, then indeed i wouldn't want them having nukes. Even if they're not i don't want them having nukes - don't want any more nations getting them. But, if they'd had them Putin wouldn't have invaded and a lot of innocent people would still be alive --- it's an absolute headfvck of a quandary that mankind has gotten itself into.

a reply to: onthedownlow


1. Putin has been asking Europe to influence Ukraine and its "strange" neo-Nazi hobbies since 2007. Then he spoke at a security conference in Munich. You can find this speech, it is available in different languages.

2. We are not Western liberals. We are a nation that lost 40 million people who came from Europe from the Nazis. Every family has lost someone. Therefore, when we call someone a Nazi, it is literally a Nazi. The people I mentioned seized power in Ukraine. They worship the Ukrainian Nazis who fought on the side of Nazi Germany, and engaged in "dirty work" - burning villages, liquidating Jews by the thousands, liquidating Russians and other shocking deeds. They put monuments to these Nazis from the past and demolish monuments and graves of soldiers who fell during the Second World War.
These people hold torchlight processions. They wear tattoos with Nazi symbols (national battalion fighters), and their leaders systematically impose bans on learning all other languages except Ukrainian on the territory of Ukraine. There is literally a law in force there, according to which if you speak Russian at your workplace, you can be fined. And these are so crazy facts that in the 21st century it is difficult to believe that this is possible, and that such people - who have taken Ukraine hostage - are supported by the West.

So once again. If a Russian says "Nazi", then it is "Nazi". Real. And your leftists are much closer to these Nazis than they think.

3. About the favorite myth of the left in the West about Stalin and Hitler. Do you know which banks and corporations sponsored Hitler's rise to power, and which ones, despite the fact that their country (I'm talking about the USA) already at war with Germany - continued business with the Nazis? Do I remind you about the role of Standard Oil, Ford or AT&T? Or do I remind you of the list of American and German banks that participated in this? Do you know why their owners were not tried alongside the Nazis?
As soon as you deal with this issue at home - come - I will be happy to tell you the "nuances" of the relations between Stalin and Hitler, Hitler and Churchill, Hitler and Roosevelt and many others. With links to the works of historians.

4. If you believe your financial experts, then following the collapse of the stock markets, the market for Chinese products will also shrink. China is facing the same problems as everyone else in the world. And he will definitely not be up to the war. Unless he carefully joins Taiwan - but after the next elections in Taiwan, he will join China himself. At least the main candidate for victory speaks openly about it. On the terms of Hong Kong.
China has no reason to attack Russia. Especially when the West threatens China with a naval blockade at every sneeze. Russia is the only reliable supplier of resources in such a situation.
Plus, any military expert will explain to you why China's attack on Russia is senseless and suicidal.

a reply to: BZiker

My electricity bills have steadily increased each year since 2008
as with my council tax, and my income tax, and my national insurance contributions
these will all likely continue to rise
My electricity including gas is about 90 - 100 a month depending on how cold it is , if its colder then we are higher.
My council tax is like 195 a month it will go up as well this year.
My rent is luckily staying stable as I rent from my parents so Im technically paying off a mortgage but its in their name
thanks for parents eh

Luckily I live in Glasgow city so I dont really need to drive anywhere and my friends and family in Scotland all live a train journey away , I checked and unleaded is 151.67 a litre, super unleaded 163.54, diesel 155.23 , and LPG 83.03.

I havent paid attention to the cost of goods as I dont buy that much stuff often enough to notice

I too will keep you informed of price changes just for comparison sake Id like to see how deeply these sanctions affect the citizens of Russia.

All I do know is that they the politicians are causing a ripple in the pool which will transcend into a tidal wave for us the working class people of the world

and once again we all suffer, some more than others unfortunately

I must admit that i've lost respect for Zelenskyy with his asking for a no-fly zone. He knows very well that it would very easily escalate into ww3 if a russian jet strayed in there.

I heard a retired British soldier (think he was a general) on the radio yesterday and was glad to hear him echo what i've been thinking - that while he deeply admired the Ukrainians heart in this fight the hard truth is that eventually russia will take Kiev and Ukraine. The longer that takes the more will die. So being inevitable it's the right thing to do to capitulate and sue for peace and the best outcome possible. I said this a few days back on here and with every passing day the death seems more and more pointless.

The only service Ukraine does in fighting on is to try and create a hostile atmosphere for Putin at home - to deter him from doing this again, or even for his own people to overthrow him in some manner. I don't think the latter is likely, but the former is probably the reason other nations such as the US are as good as egging ukraine on in this fight.

a reply to: McGinty


And how would Russians, seeing neo-Nazi psychosis in a neighboring country, have to ensure their safety?
I will just remind you that Ukraine has committed itself not to join any military blocs. This was done officially at the time of the dissolution of the USSR. The Baltic States did not assume such obligations, but Ukraine did.
But since 2003, Ukraine has declared its desire to join NATO. Ukrainian politicians started talking about the concept of "Ukraine is anti-Russia", and Ukrainian oligarchs, fearing direct competition with Russian oligarchs, launched a neo-Nazi financing company. And all this was done publicly and demonstratively. But the West didn't care about that. After all, this creates problems for Russia and not for the West. These guys are like an atomic bomb with a ticking timer. And Russian troops are forced to defuse this bomb.

Now this problem has become a disaster that urgently needs to be stopped. But even now, when Western military experts say publicly that the resistance of Ukrainians is useless, the Ukrainian authorities continue to call for bloodshed. they betrayed the population of their country, their army. They just want as much blood as possible - because this makes such an inconvenient picture for Russians in the media.

The logical truth is that only the power and assets of their sponsors, the Ukrainian oligarchs, are important to them. Perhaps they are covering Hunter Biden's ass, because now the Russian special services will be able to conduct an unlimited investigation on any issue in Ukraine - and the more Russia is discredited by hysteria in the media, the less confidence the data coming from Russia will cause.
By the way, Russia does not benefit from bloody pictures. It is not profitable for the population to consider Russian soldiers as murderers of civilians. That is the only reason why the Russian army still does not use the full force of either avition or artillery - as your experts say. They have generally sorted out the tactics of the Russian troops there. And it speaks for itself, no matter how you feel about Russia. Look for their interviews, including from bloggers. Don't be lazy.